(idm) Tally Ho! - my final 2p worth (long!)

From Brian Flanagan
Sent Thu, Oct 22nd 1998, 01:32


Peter Hollo wrote:

> Brian Flanagan wrote:
> <A whole lot of patronising misinterpretations and total rubbish not
> worth repeating snipped>

me - ow!
ok, so you appear to say there are two types of "out of tuneness" being
intentional and unintentional, why does one cause such discomfortand the
other not?...you don't know 100% of the time which is and isn't (oh, on the
subject of SAW2, one of the tracks is a large sample of richard's stomach
rumbling/gurgling slowed down....I tried it on myself one drunken night and
got the same result)I really feel sorry  - honestly - that you feel
discomfort from these mentioned tracks, Is this due to the classical
training that
you so proudly mention? If this is the case, I'm glad I have none, I
couldn't handle listening to music so analytically.

>  Samples are put there for a
> musical purpose, and if that purpose does not involve detuned-ness, then
> being out of tune may be a very big draw-back to a lot of people.

a lot???...I really don't think so....you and che are the only people that
have mentioned it.
(must admit, I got shot of dead cities as I thought it was just a dull
scrapbook of
overused samples and other musicians midifiles)

> Well if you mean "The new CD by x is really good" should make me go and
> get it, that's just crap.

Don't be silly now, I appreciate a good review of a CD, even If it's
something I've already dismissed,it's nice to see what other people got out
of it....but the idea of critisizing atrack purely for an out of tune sample

is pedantry.

>  Basically,
> it's not what you're saying that matters to me - I don't care whether
> _you_ care about accidental out-of-tune music -but that you can't help

> being extremely offensive to those who do care.

Oh come on, "extremely offensive"??? you ARE a sensitive individual aren't
you...I think you're being a tad extreme here.....I think you're also  in an
extremely small minority..

> Go on Brian, tell me I'm a snob because I like classical music too.

No, there is nothing wrong with classical music.

> me I'm a loser because I've studied music theory.

No, but if it has made you overly sensitive to something that goes unnoticed
to a lot of people,then maybe, as I said, pedantic?

> You've already told me
> I like lame crap like Joe Satriani

Er..no again, I said maybe you should listen (as a laugh)....don't criticize
unless you've experienced is my motto... ;)

>  Maybe I don't like the Sex Pistols too hey? (try again)

Maybe...maybe not??...how about crass or abrasive wheels...or even face to
face? that was added to make the reading a little more easy going for people
how have to trudge through this text...y'know?? s'not fucking life or death
or anything..or maybe it is in your case.

> And I was saying "I can listen to music better than you" was I? I don't
> think so!

NO, yet again....I was asking... though the "if you listened through my
ears" statement persuaded me to think so, in fact...I think it wasn't you
that said that, maybe che??...in that case it wasn't aimed at you, and it
that case, sorry.

> It was me in "###SELF DEFENSE MODE###" but whilst you go into
> self defense mode when I reply to you, you clearly don't recognise that
> I might want to defend myself too.

It was merely the aggresive tone that brought datathief operative mode
#76236 into execution.. ;)

> As I said above, I don't think I can listen to music better than you at
> all, but there's a very large cross-section of IDM listeners for whom
> being in tune matters (in those cases that I have outlined)

er... 2?...seems like you and che were the only ones aggravated by it....

> and you've
> just told us we're sad snobs who are, I presume, LISTENING TO MUSIC FOR
> THE WRONG THINGS.

er.. NO yet again....I mentioned what I (as in me) mattered ... I'm glad I
don't suffer as you do

actually, at this moment, listening to "easy muffin" by amon tobin, which
i've just realised I actually like a lot and really can't say
that the offending sample sounds out or even "discomforting"
Remember, there is always usually a trade of between timing and pitch in
heavily sample based music, which as it so happens what I class luke vibert
doing, the only way around it is through careful pitch shifting, and of
which, I do not know if either
LV or AT have....remember, it's bedroom made music (mostly), and if the
majority of musicians were that finicky about perfect tuning I don't think
we'd have half the music we have available, and for that fact I'm extremely
glad......

have you youself ever written a track based around samples from old vinyl
tracks??? (off list if you really want to reply)

there's a track we did that has an old vinyl sample which I know myself
isn't 100% in tune (the midrange creates a slight discordance)
but it had the right vibe, so we kept it in regardless..

I'm sure luke vibert would probably say something similar about his tracks,
though I'm not his spokesman, but I rate him and he's a nice guy, so,
whatever..

I think "sad" was a bad term....after listening to the accused track, maybe
"cursed" would be more apt.

> Peter.
> P.S. Maybe not my last words on the matter.

God, I wish they were, you really are in a minority, and I'm really bored of
all this, I've heard your case and your evidence and really cannot be
bothered carrying on with this pointless argument anymore as I feel it
really is pendantic, you're obviously not gonna back down and I'm sure you
can blind me with classically trained science, but
honestly....PLEASE...ANYONE! have a listen to track 2 on brickolage by amon
tobin and ask yourself is it really that faulted???

I hope you will put your education to good use, and if you write tracks
yourself, blow us away with some awesome music, if not, I feel it's
wasted...

please, no more....

oh yeah... and to whoever told me to "put up or shut up" - I opted for shut
up as when I was last on the list CONTRIBUTING AND REVIEWING LIKE FUCK, I
was forever accused as an "information leak" by various labels, so I decided
silence was the best option, I could've blabbed about the new Bola CD "soup"
LAST YEAR, but no, I had to keep tight lipped. (out real soon now)...I'm
totally completely and utterly COMMITTED to the "IDM" (fuck you, NME and all
your genre pigeonholing) scene and work my arse off in my own time doing
audio and visual work for a lot of labels and artists, for a minimum (or
zero) cost I hasten to add, as i'd rather contribute anything I can to what
really matters, IE the PRODUCT ITSELF instead of just running my mouth on
some internet mailing list.

last post I'm gonna make on the subject, regardless

Brian, (datathief/studio moo productions)