From Brad Shelton Sent Mon, Oct 19th 1998, 15:05
From Brad Shelton Sent Mon, Oct 19th 1998, 15:05
>Pop music tends not to suffer from this because pop musicians have >producers, and one of the producer's main tasks is to make sure everything >is in tune and in key. When someone says something is "well produced", they >should make sure the music's not out of tune or dissonant (unless >dissnonance is desired). My experience is the opposite. Recent pop music, which in the US is largely r&b and rap, has many many examples of samples and loops thrown together without regard to key signature. (not a criticism, just an observation). On the other hand, I've rarely perceived that in this-listy music. >I think most non-tone-deaf people can tell when something is badly out of >tune or key, as long as it's not the bass (most musicians I know have >trouble tuning a bass - I've heard out of tune bass on 4Hero, Amon Tobin, >Seefeel, and lots of others). It factors into whether or not something >sounds good or bad, even if there's no formal knowledge of the rules. Ah! Now we're getting somewhere. This I have experienced, and pondered. I think there's an explanation for this. The bass you're referring to in most of those cases, if not all, is not your standard bass guitar-- it's more of a techno-style dub bass, a good octave (or two) lower than the bass you'd hear on a Nile Rodgers-produced Duran Duran record (for example). =) My explanation- Sounds that low (bass or otherwise) tend to 'lose' their pitch. If you've got a synth or sampler, try it- alter a sound to play a couple of octaves lower than usual, and play a well known melody on the left-end of the keyboard. It will sound like mush, even though you're pressing the correct keys, playing it 'in key'. The sub-bass you're referring to above (Seefeel, Amon Tobin, much drum-n-bass) is an example of this in action. I think the notes are correct (in key), and also in tune-- you just have to get past the effect noted above. In my experience the sub-base resolves better (sounds better in tune) if you listen to it loud, with headphones on, more carefully, or a combination thereof. >Luckily most digital synths are always in tune, and most techno boffins >quickly learn how to work the "tune" knob on their analogue kit, so it's >usually not a problem. However, samples aren't always in tune, especially >when transposed to fit a tempo. That's where I tend to have problems. I >think the worst case I've ever heard was an Ultramarine track that sampled >the Beagle's "One Of These Nights" (Saratoga, I think. Left a bad taste in >my mouth, but my friend Cam insists that I give them another shot.). This sounds like a different issue, one of personal preference. The sample on that tune never struck me as offensive, though if I recall correctly (through the years) it was in a different key from the rest of the track. That kind of key-juxtaposition is a part of sampling culture, I think-- it's as much a side-effect/tool of sampling/dj culture as beat-juxtaposition [1] is. Or surface noise, or timestretching, or any other variation of musical building blocks. Sometimes it sounds bad to me (some of the lightweight pop tunes referred to at the start of this e-mail). But sometimes it works for me. Especially with reference to Vibert- as someone recently said, (paraphrase) his work has a sense of humor that constantly reminds the listener to not take his records so seriously. (/paraphrase) The use of wigged-out samples (including those out-of-key) is part of that humor to me. Though I have to admit, on the Vibert releases I have (Throbbing Pouch, At Atmos, Plug 2CD) there aren't any places that leap out as having incorrectly pitched samples. - Brad [1] Not just beat matching. Like laying a 4-4 groove over a 3-4 shuffle. For example, try BoC track 2 and that laid-back shuffling Mannequin Lung track (6 I think, or 7). Niiiice. Any others out there have a polyrythmic secret weapon they would like to share? ;)