From lwtcdi Sent Fri, Nov 28th 1997, 13:08
From lwtcdi Sent Fri, Nov 28th 1997, 13:08
>> Please, breaking down the IDM tag achieves nothing! IDM doesn't mean
>> anything in terms of semantics. It's a nice little label for a nice
>> little cross section of music, but as with all labels there is confusion
>> as to what music actually falls into the category. The best labels are
>> the ones that mean nothing semantically, ie
>>
>> Hip-hop
>> Jazz
>> and the like
>>
>> because people can't disect the language they always have to refer to
>> them referencing 'actual music', which makes things much more
>> interesting...
>I will agree to the end that labels are for the most part shit. The point
>I was making was that genrefying music, or trying to say what and what
>isn't IDM is totally useless unless you have a definition of what IDM is.
>IDM has very, very fuzzy boundaries, and I was just using the name as a
>useful basis for a description.
A label isn't as accurate as you seem to believe though. It's not just a
straight definition, it's a convergence of opinion based on
communication between those who listen to music. It's only a means of
identification, not description. I'm not saying labels are useless or
pointless, far from it, but I don't
see the point of picking them apart in the way you did with the IDM. It
has been done plenty of times before, and no one had ever got anywhere
with it, as far as I have seen, hence the 'this debate sucks' postings.
Everytime I think of IDM I don't think of what it stands for. It's just
a label, and we wouldn't need these labels as much if we had access to
every piece of recorded music in existance and had time to listen to it
all. The labels are just substitute for the music, not anything in
themselves. Their connotations are what give them meaning, and everyone
associates slightly different things with different labels, hence
differences of opinion.
>> ie I don't like hip-hop because I heard that Puffy Daddy record...
>I guess my problem with that is when someone brings up DJ Spooky and
>someone screams "no hip hop, this is IDM!" as if the lines were that
>clearly drawn.
I agree, it seems the same thing happens with some drum and bass, but
this is simply opinion
>I was
>talking to someone recently and made the statement that if you hear
>anything, even a song you love, 10,000 times on the radio, you're going to
>start to hate it. The parts you never quite liked become abhorant.
I wouldn't hate it, I'd just become bored by it. Boredom is the
antithesis of what I am looking for in music.
Some people are of the mindset where they buy one CD and listen to it to
death for 6 months. Now that's fine, but I don't believe most of the
people on this list are like that - they want NEW music, UNHEARD music
and lots of it, and that's part of the reason I don't think Prodigy are
of interest to many people on this list.
>> elsewhere. Fuck the music, it may well be great, but there's no rush to
>> own it. I'll get it in five years when all the hype is over and I can
>I always cringe when I see someone say "fuck the music."
Well obviously I don't mean fuck ALL music, otherwise I wouldn't be here
at all, I just mean "fuck (all) the music (made by the Prodigy lately)".
Just an opinion. And BTW, I don't think Prodigy are IDM, but that's not
why I don't like it... You can discuss it here if you like, but if no
one WANTS to, it's going to be a very one-sided conversation, isn't it?
Can't blame you for trying, but if the interest isn't there, it isn't
there...
>True, the music
>isn't going anywhere, that's to be sure, and there's a hell of a lot of
>music to explore.
Don't quite understand this statement. If you mean all music, then I
think it is going somewhere, just a bit more slowly than normal, maybe.
If you mean the Prodigy, well then I think it's fairly interesting pop
music, but it isn't very interesting *music*.
>But my gripe wasn't with people not being interested in
>it, but in BASHING those who are.
But maybe there are better places to discuss The Prodigy that here if
you want constructive debate. No sensible person would bash you just for
liking them and mentioning it in passing, but when you get into big
discussions about them then the people who feel it doesn't fit on the
list are bound to get pissed off. And that doesn't mean there's anything
stopping you from discussing them, as long as you expect there to be
some kind of hostile response...
>> If everyone went out and bought the new Prod CD, it'd be like the bloody
>> Stepford Wives or summat. It's not far off this already, so I'm steering
>> well clear before I suddenly feel like getting a tongue piercing for no
>> apparent reason.
>I still don't see how that's really all that different from everyone
>rushing out like sheep to get the new Aphex record
Well maybe you're right (Come To Daddy has just come ON THE RADIO as I
speak, I shit you not!), but there is, I think, a gigantic gap between
RDJ's fairly pitiful attempts at gaining mainstream success (a video and
two teddy bear costumes) and what the Prodigy have been doing. This gap
is not only in promotional aspects of music, it is also reflected *in*
the music. Prodigy's music has always been, from the start, 'for the
people' whereas RDJ has specificly stated many times that he has made
music solely to try and alienate.
>> I'm a flame-starter, twisted flame-starter. (woo-woo-woo-woo woo woo)
>> Yeeeaaaaahhhh.
>Heh. This is not directed at lwtcdi, but why does everything have to be a
>flame? Why can't people respond in a normal fashion and support their
>opinions?
Because sometimes love and hate come into music, and these arn't very
rational emotions.
>I'm not a pugalistic person, but I knew damned well the flak that would
>fly from this thread. What I hoped to see were some of the justifications
>people have for being so bloody closed minded about their concepts of
>"IDM" and what gets thrown into it and what doesn't.
I think the problem is that everyone wants to discuss the music *they*
like regardless of whether it is relevant or not. I am guilty of this -
I feel the same way about the music I love, and want to force it onto
this list as much as possible, because I think it's worthy of discussion
and there's not many other good places *to* discuss it. Unfortunately
that doesn't neccessarily mean it belongs here.
Suggestion: If people arn't in the right place for the right kind of
discussion, others on this list should point them to where they will be
best recieved. Maybe if *I* knew of others I wouldn't have to post so
much (seemingly) irrelevant crap here!
Gb.
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