From Lorne Hammond Sent Fri, May 3rd 2019, 14:29
From Lorne Hammond Sent Fri, May 3rd 2019, 14:29
excellent point Brian, I'd also say that Alan had a strong eye on the = education market creating products for the well heeled school district = market (as did apple a stunning omission in that bestselling jobs bio a = few years back). That was definitely the case for Ionic Industries/EMSA who were the USA = rep for EMS (The Perfomer was aimed directly at schools, the putney and = selling individual VCO boards which cost them their relationship). =20 Even Don Buchla sold units to school boards (the traditional keyboard = Buchla that surfaced in Vancouver recently for example). And then there = was the Musitronics badged minimoog (scandal aside) aimed at the = lucrative=20 southern US Church market. My point is that the different companies saw = different markets for what they built. The coke/pepsi competition that = most people focus on (inventing an east coast/west coast rivalry that = did not exist in the marketplace; or the ARP/Moog rivalry that did exist = on the rock stage (really used to swing buyers using personalities to = impact the music shop marketplace ) was a lot messier and less well = defined. Most writers on EM focus on rock or on universities,=20 but there was a lot more going on, and its still there as I saw in 2015 = at NAMM. Yamaha has alwys sold a lot of keyboards to schools, churches, = and home players, not just the stage/studio/universities. Lorne ----Original Message----- From: Brian Willoughby <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>=20 Sent: May-02-19 8:53 PM To: Dave <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> Cc: Analog Heaven <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> Subject: Re: [AH] CS80 That=E2=80=99s an excellent point. So, rather than say that Buchla=E2=80=99s market was small and the = prices were high because he took very little feedback, perhaps = it=E2=80=99s slightly more accurate to say that he surveyed a very niche = market of people who turned out to be not very representative of the = much larger market for synthesizers in general. I only own one Buchla = product. I get the impression that he was a member of the community that = he built products for, as opposed to Bob Moog who really didn=E2=80=99t = know what his customers wanted until he talked to them. Did Buchla survey his customers? =E2=80=A6 or did he just work in a = community and design things for his peeps? Perhaps Alan R. Pearlman was more of a visionary who was willing to = teach his customers. Still, he=E2=80=99s quoted as saying that = synthesizers are just a novelty unless the designers pay attention to = the needs of musicians. Even the educational aspect of ARP was probably = a reaction to the market rather than a top-down vision. Brian On May 2, 2019, at 5:01 PM, Dave <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: >=20 > <minor ankle biting>:=20 >=20 > I'm sure at first Buchla got a lot of input from Subotnick and others = at the 'San Francisco Tape Music Center'...after that perhaps not so = much. >=20 > -Dave >=20 > On May 2, 2019 2:10:15 PM PDT, Brian Willoughby = <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> There never would have been a Moog with a keyboard if Robert = hadn=E2=80=99t listened to customers. >>=20 >> There were no online forums in the vintage analog days, so your point = is completely irrelevant. >>=20 >> Arguably, the success of Moog, Yamaha, Roland, ARP, Buchla and others = is directly proportional to the amount of user feedback. Buchla probably = took very little feedback from users, due to his vision, and thus his = products remained expensive and rare. Moog and the Japanese probably = took the most feedback from users, and their products enjoyed the = benefits of massive success. >>=20 >> Brian >>=20 >> On May 1, 2019, at 2:04 AM, Phil a <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: >>> that's if you hire clueless engineers or maybe not the engineers but = the guys on top in their office which approve or not the incoming ideas, = not sure how you call them, they are called artistic directors in the = music field. >>> As far as I know Bob Moog, Don Buchla, Peter Zinovieff, but also = Roland and even Yamaha when they chose to design the CS-80 didn't rely = on user feedback form online forums, did they ? >>> They relied essentially if not only on what is called a vision. >>>=20 >>> Phil >>>=20 >>> On Wed, 1 May 2019 at 02:51, M V <xx_xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >>>> Right. Relying on your in-house team and their market "insight" = alone will just result in the kind of clueless, uninspired garbage that = Roland have been putting out for the last decade.=20 >>>>=20 >>>> From: Mike SynMike <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2019 7:46 PM >>>> To: Neil Harper; Analogue Heaven AH >>>> Subject: Re: [AH] CS80 >>>> =20 >>>> Isn't asking for input like from users this exactly what a = marketing research team might do to gather market input? >>>>=20 >>>> On Apr 30, 2019, at 2:02 PM, Neil Harper <xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx> wrote: >>>>> On 4/30/19 2:37 PM, Ben Bradley wrote: >>>>>> "If we made a CS-80, do you want a vintage reissue or a modern = evolution?" >>>>>=20 >>>>> why don't you ask your designers, engineers and market research = teams?? >>>>> seriously... hire someone with a vision and figure this shit out = yourself. >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> /// Neil Harper >>>>> /// Every Wave is New Until it Breaks >>>>>=20