[microsound] reminder

From Kim Cascone
Sent Sat, Sep 30th 2006, 20:18

folks,
a reminder: there is no cross-posting or announcements allowed on  
this main list...if you have something you want to promote please  
post it to the announcements list...see the microsound website for  
info on how to sub...
thanks
KIM

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From ???@??? Sat Sep 30 19:03:43 2006
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do me a favour and define fanboy please.

seems a pretty derogatory term to me and better make sure i'm not one.

-d

Kim Cascone wrote:
>> seriously if every thread needs to include
>> socialist dogma then retitle the list as "microsocialist" or something
>> like that. Or at least include a warning on the homepage "all ye who
>> enter beware PHD level discussion of Marxism". ;-) <- note the winking.
>
> some people are allergic to '-ism's' -- but then that's just another 
> '-ism' isn't it, since any system of ideas or opinions can be labeled 
> an 'ism' -- no?
>
> Marxist analysis is one of many critical frameworks that can be 
> applied to cultural discussions...and happens to be one which 
> determines how I 'receive' art and music...
>
> we all have a lens through which we color the world don't we?
>
> again, the microsound list was intended to be a forum for discussing 
> aesthetics and philosophy as applied to digital music -- so it stands 
> to reason that a Marxist analysis would be one of many applied to a 
> discussion...
>
> if you see absolutely no relation between music and politics - or 
> between art and philosophy or art and mathematics or any other 
> interesting graft that provokes an interesting discussion - then this 
> might not be the place for you...sorry, but I don't want this list 
> turning into a trainspotting fanboy list and I feel it's my duty to 
> keep the 'fanboy to philosophy' ratio adjusted according to the 
> founders recipe...
>
> and if this bugs you then the solution is very simple: start a list 
> that reflects your own mission...
>
> it's funny how when someone invokes Deleuze it isn't slapped down as 
> 'dogma' -- but utter the words 'Marxism' and all of a sudden 
> everything that comes out of your mouth is branded as diatribe or 
> dogma...it's just a framework -- and it happens to be my 
> framework...so I'm not going to stop expressing it because it makes 
> you uncomfortable...
>
> if you don't like my world view then either be polite and delete my 
> posts or unsub and start your own list...
>
> I'm not here to make your microsound experience warm and fuzzy...
>
> those wanting to express their opinions through the critical 
> frameworks of Lacanian, Marxist, Schenkerian, Structuralist, Deleuzian 
> etc. are encouraged to do so freely without intimidation from the 
> vehemently anti-intellectual among us...just ignore them and their 
> trolling posts...
>
> oh and I do have a sense a humor - but your 'winky joke' was just not 
> funny on any level! ;)
>
> respect,
> KIM
>
>
>
>
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>

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From ???@??? Sat Sep 30 18:15:36 2006
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--- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Marxist analysis is one of many critical frameworks that can be  
> applied to cultural discussions...and happens to be one which  
> determines how I 'receive' art and music...

Appears to be the only framework you're interested in. But hey if
that's what you like then criticize my piece "Pussyface" using the
marxist framework. I'm sure that will be interesting.

> we all have a lens through which we color the world don't we?
> again, the microsound list was intended to be a forum for discussing 
> aesthetics and philosophy as applied to digital music -- so it stands
> to reason that a Marxist analysis would be one of many applied to a  
> discussion...

True enough.. but again Marxism seems to come up far more frequently
than another other philosophy here... although I guess you've allready
explained why this is.

> if you see absolutely no relation between music and politics - or  
> between art and philosophy or art and mathematics or any other  
> interesting graft that provokes an interesting discussion - then this
> might not be the place for you...sorry, but I don't want this list  
> turning into a trainspotting fanboy list and I feel it's my duty to  
> keep the 'fanboy to philosophy' ratio adjusted according to the  
> founders recipe...

I see the relationships.. I was simply trying to provoke a practical
discussion of how one conveys politics in music without using lyrics of
course. It's not that I don't have any ideas on the subject but this is
something I have not seen talked about anywhere else. Since I do not
come from the same academic background as you you'll have to try harder
to be less obfuscated.

Software can influence technique so a discussion of it does not
automatically imply a "fanboy philosophy". 

But seeing how it's possible that using a piece of software could imply
some sort of political agenda .. for example the insinuation that Larry
Wall is a pro-lifer.. then discussing software can certainly be
philosphical and political.

The founders receipt is heavy on the marxism. 

> and if this bugs you then the solution is very simple: start a list  
> that reflects your own mission...

No thanks.. I don't have a mission or a specific agenda but yours has
become pretty clear.

> it's funny how when someone invokes Deleuze it isn't slapped down as 
> 'dogma' -- but utter the words 'Marxism' and all of a sudden  
> everything that comes out of your mouth is branded as diatribe or  
> dogma...it's just a framework -- and it happens to be my  
> framework...so I'm not going to stop expressing it because it makes  
> you uncomfortable...

Based on the find command.. I see that Deleuze is mentioned a fraction
of the number of times that Marx is mentioned. Also I think Deleuze
simply does not carry the same baggage that Marx does.

My only issue with you is your academic elitism, your obvious arrogance
and self righteous know it all-ness about the subject of Marxism. 

Otherwise I'm sure you are a wonderful person with alot to share.

> I'm not here to make your microsound experience warm and fuzzy...

Well I'm convinved that this list is inappropriately titled as the
relationship between any discussion here and "microsound" is purely
coincidental. 

Indeed your mission seems to be to beat people over the head with your
biased view of the world.

> those wanting to express their opinions through the critical  
> frameworks of Lacanian, Marxist, Schenkerian, Structuralist,  
> Deleuzian etc. are encouraged to do so freely without intimidation  
> from the vehemently anti-intellectual among us...just ignore them and
> their trolling posts...

Of course if you do not express it from any of the prescribed
frameworks ye shall be beaten over the head with links to wikipedia and
many references to marxism.

> oh and I do have a sense a humor - but your 'winky joke' was just not
> funny on any level! ;)

I'd like to hear a joke from you as long as it does not involve marx
etc. Or is the witty titling of threads the extent of which you will go
for humor?

Yours truly and forever

Adrian


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From ???@??? Sat Sep 30 16:48:49 2006
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From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] humorous beasts
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> seriously if every thread needs to include
> socialist dogma then retitle the list as "microsocialist" or something
> like that. Or at least include a warning on the homepage "all ye who
> enter beware PHD level discussion of Marxism". ;-) <- note the  
> winking.

some people are allergic to '-ism's' -- but then that's just another  
'-ism' isn't it, since any system of ideas or opinions can be labeled  
an 'ism' -- no?

Marxist analysis is one of many critical frameworks that can be  
applied to cultural discussions...and happens to be one which  
determines how I 'receive' art and music...

we all have a lens through which we color the world don't we?

again, the microsound list was intended to be a forum for discussing  
aesthetics and philosophy as applied to digital music -- so it stands  
to reason that a Marxist analysis would be one of many applied to a  
discussion...

if you see absolutely no relation between music and politics - or  
between art and philosophy or art and mathematics or any other  
interesting graft that provokes an interesting discussion - then this  
might not be the place for you...sorry, but I don't want this list  
turning into a trainspotting fanboy list and I feel it's my duty to  
keep the 'fanboy to philosophy' ratio adjusted according to the  
founders recipe...

and if this bugs you then the solution is very simple: start a list  
that reflects your own mission...

it's funny how when someone invokes Deleuze it isn't slapped down as  
'dogma' -- but utter the words 'Marxism' and all of a sudden  
everything that comes out of your mouth is branded as diatribe or  
dogma...it's just a framework -- and it happens to be my  
framework...so I'm not going to stop expressing it because it makes  
you uncomfortable...

if you don't like my world view then either be polite and delete my  
posts or unsub and start your own list...

I'm not here to make your microsound experience warm and fuzzy...

those wanting to express their opinions through the critical  
frameworks of Lacanian, Marxist, Schenkerian, Structuralist,  
Deleuzian etc. are encouraged to do so freely without intimidation  
from the vehemently anti-intellectual among us...just ignore them and  
their trolling posts...

oh and I do have a sense a humor - but your 'winky joke' was just not  
funny on any level! ;)

respect,
KIM




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From ???@??? Fri Sep 29 20:43:14 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] How to... compose electroacoustic music
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On Sonic Art is /very/ anchored to Wishart's ideas about sound and  
music (which is, I suppose, good or bad depending...), but the book  
itself is probably the most in-depth commentary on electroacoustic  
composition I've ever seen. I suspect you could learn a lot by going  
back to Xenakis' Formalized Music, but it's a tough read if you're  
not a math person.

- Scott

On Sep 27, 2006, at 1:11 AM, Peter Plessas wrote:

> Hi,
>
> both books by Trevor Wishart "Audible Design" and "On Sonic Art"  
> may be
> a starting point. They focus on transformation of (recorded) sound
> mainly, and focus a lot on what you might call "gesture" in
> electroacoustic composition.
>
> regards,
>
> Peter
>
> * mel ducasse <xxx_xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx> [2006-09-27 09:22]:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Does anyone have any suggestions/reading lists for books and articles
>> which deal specifically with the gestures and 'vocabulary' of
>> electroacoustic music? I'm not so interested in text which deal with
>> software processes; I'd like to find something that looks at
>> composition techniques which were developed before computers,
>> techniques which seem (to me)to have become a fairly standard set of
>> gestures.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
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From ???@??? Fri Sep 29 14:45:27 2006
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 10:45:11 -0400
From: Eloy Anzola <xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] Homemade Cassette Tape DJ Mixers + Max/MSP PC
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DJ Artyom built this really cool cassette mixer which he controls with MAX.
 
Looks like lots of fun.
 
Homemade Cassette Tape DJ Mixers + Max/MSP PC
http://createdigitalmusic.com/2006/09/28/homemade-cassette-tape-dj-mixers-ma
xmsp-pc/
 
Make your own DJ gear:
http://soundresearch.narod.ru/diy_eng.htm
 
MAX/MSP DJ Stuff:
http://soundresearch.narod.ru/maxmspdjstuff_eng.htm
 
 
Now..., if there are no politics in my patch, can the
music it produces be *serious*, eh, no wait..., hey!
:-P 

make some noise, send us the link.
 
Eloy
 -----
xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx



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Sorry - this one should have gone to the microsound-announce list instead, 
I apologize for any inconveniences!

/J


29/09/06, kl. 11:11 +0200 , skrev Jakob Riis:

>Kvarnen - open call for works.
>
>Kvarnen is an online flash-based soundgrinder http://www.ssshhhhh.dk/
>kvarnen/. 
>
>Until november 15th 2006 Kvarnen is accepting new contributions from
>composers, sound- and new media artists. Kvarnen is a project by dansih
>sound artist group 'ssshhhhh...'.
>
>Description of technical detials, and how to participate in the project
>can be found here:
>http://www.ssshhhhh.dk/kvarnen/kvarneninfoframe.html
>Please contact xxxxx@xxxxxx-xxxxxxxx.xx if you wan't to contribute.
>
>
>
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>



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From ???@??? Fri Sep 29 09:11:43 2006
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Kvarnen - open call for works.

Kvarnen is an online flash-based soundgrinder http://www.ssshhhhh.dk/
kvarnen/. 

Until november 15th 2006 Kvarnen is accepting new contributions from
composers, sound- and new media artists. Kvarnen is a project by dansih
sound artist group 'ssshhhhh...'.

Description of technical detials, and how to participate in the project
can be found here:
http://www.ssshhhhh.dk/kvarnen/kvarneninfoframe.html
Please contact xxxxx@xxxxxx-xxxxxxxx.xx if you wan't to contribute.



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From ???@??? Fri Sep 29 07:40:58 2006
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From: steinbr=?ISO-8859-1?B?/A==?=chel <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
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well this text is also in the booklet of the cd and signed by mr. toral.
also read the article about him in the wire. this is for sure mr. torals
statement and not some fancy creative thing from the label...

ralph.


Am 29.9.2006 2:29 Uhr schrieb "Rudy Carrera" unter <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>:

> That is true.  I had the same headache when I ran my label some years ago,
> and it had disastrous consequences.
> 
> -- 
> Regards,
> 
> Rudy Carrera
> http://rudycarrera.com/wp/
> http://myspace.com/racarrera
> 
> 
> On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> 
>> but isn't it also a little odd to believe toral and his label do not
>> communicate about such things? afterall this was not a review he had no
>> say over but a press release you'd hope he bothered to read before it
>> went out....
>> 
>> maybe not
>> 
>> -d
>> 
>> Johan Nilsson wrote:
>>> Yeah, I hardly think Mr. Toral would have made a statement like that
>>> and it's rather wrong to be judgemental towards his music for what his
>>> label says.
>>> 
>>> I personally found the record to be very good.
>>> 
>>> Johan
>> 

-- 
http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.



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From ???@??? Fri Sep 29 00:30:07 2006
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That is true.  I had the same headache when I ran my label some years ago,
and it had disastrous consequences.

-- 
Regards,

Rudy Carrera
http://rudycarrera.com/wp/
http://myspace.com/racarrera


On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> but isn't it also a little odd to believe toral and his label do not
> communicate about such things? afterall this was not a review he had no
> say over but a press release you'd hope he bothered to read before it
> went out....
>
> maybe not
>
> -d
>
> Johan Nilsson wrote:
> > Yeah, I hardly think Mr. Toral would have made a statement like that
> > and it's rather wrong to be judgemental towards his music for what his
> > label says.
> >
> > I personally found the record to be very good.
> >
> > Johan
>
--Boundary_(ID_l31rbaRiKlwRfooc9Xm/zw)--

From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 22:16:29 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
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but isn't it also a little odd to believe toral and his label do not 
communicate about such things? afterall this was not a review he had no 
say over but a press release you'd hope he bothered to read before it 
went out....

maybe not

-d

Johan Nilsson wrote:
> Yeah, I hardly think Mr. Toral would have made a statement like that 
> and it's rather wrong to be judgemental towards his music for what his 
> label says.
>
> I personally found the record to be very good.
>
> Johan
>
> On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:07 PM, David Geraghty wrote:
>
>> the press info stated -
>>
>> .. but this sounds like
>>> the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and
>>> electronics with a single
>>> stroke
>>
>> it's not jazz...it's just...damn, it's just you wish he'd never let 
>> his label state such nonsense. it's hard to listen to things, 
>> especially when the guy was always good, when he's letting people 
>> talk his work up to a degree that he will never reach. that's not a 
>> diss to him, but seriously - how many people are really creating new 
>> approaches to jazz these days? not many i'd wager, and certainly not 
>> Mr Toral with this release.
>>
>> I hasten to add, it's by no means terrible. It's not blowing me away, 
>> nor making me that excited to give it a repeated listen (which i am 
>> as we speak) but it's not terrible.
>>
>> -d
>>
>>
>> Rudy Carrera wrote:
>>> On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it sounded
>>>> like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since
>>>> leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new 
>>>> language
>>>> of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.
>>>>
>>>> -d
>>>>
>>>> Rudy Carrera wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
>>>> >> > oren ambarchi
>>>> >>
>>>> > Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be
>>>> > surprised if
>>>> > this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because
>>>> > otherwise,
>>>> > he's quite brilliant.
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I missed that.  I had no idea he went off into jazzbo-land.  If 
>>> that's the
>>> case, I need to listen and see if he's drifting off into fusion 
>>> hell.  Last
>>> person to pull that off well was Paul Schutze, in my opinion.
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>
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>

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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 21:53:32 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
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Yeah, I hardly think Mr. Toral would have made a statement like that  
and it's rather wrong to be judgemental towards his music for what  
his label says.

I personally found the record to be very good.

Johan

On Sep 28, 2006, at 2:07 PM, David Geraghty wrote:

> the press info stated -
>
> .. but this sounds like
>> the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and
>> electronics with a single
>> stroke
>
> it's not jazz...it's just...damn, it's just you wish he'd never let  
> his label state such nonsense. it's hard to listen to things,  
> especially when the guy was always good, when he's letting people  
> talk his work up to a degree that he will never reach. that's not a  
> diss to him, but seriously - how many people are really creating  
> new approaches to jazz these days? not many i'd wager, and  
> certainly not Mr Toral with this release.
>
> I hasten to add, it's by no means terrible. It's not blowing me  
> away, nor making me that excited to give it a repeated listen  
> (which i am as we speak) but it's not terrible.
>
> -d
>
>
> Rudy Carrera wrote:
>> On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it  
>>> sounded
>>> like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since
>>> leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new  
>>> language
>>> of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.
>>>
>>> -d
>>>
>>> Rudy Carrera wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
>>> >> > oren ambarchi
>>> >>
>>> > Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be
>>> > surprised if
>>> > this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because
>>> > otherwise,
>>> > he's quite brilliant.
>>> >
>>>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>>> -
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>>
>>>
>> I missed that.  I had no idea he went off into jazzbo-land.  If  
>> that's the
>> case, I need to listen and see if he's drifting off into fusion  
>> hell.  Last
>> person to pull that off well was Paul Schutze, in my opinion.
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>

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Actually, blandness would be the kiss of death for me.

Rudy

On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> the press info stated -
>
> .. but this sounds like
> > the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and
> > electronics with a single
> > stroke
>
> it's not jazz...it's just...damn, it's just you wish he'd never let his
> label state such nonsense. it's hard to listen to things, especially when
> the guy was always good, when he's letting people talk his work up to a
> degree that he will never reach. that's not a diss to him, but seriously -
> how many people are really creating new approaches to jazz these days? not
> many i'd wager, and certainly not Mr Toral with this release.
>
> I hasten to add, it's by no means terrible. It's not blowing me away, nor
> making me that excited to give it a repeated listen (which i am as we speak)
> but it's not terrible.
>
> -d
>
>
> Rudy Carrera wrote:
> > On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it sounded
> >> like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since
> >> leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new language
> >> of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.
> >>
> >> -d
> >>
> >> Rudy Carrera wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
> >> >> > oren ambarchi
> >> >>
> >> > Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be
> >> > surprised if
> >> > this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because
> >> > otherwise,
> >> > he's quite brilliant.
> >> >
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>
> >>
> > I missed that.  I had no idea he went off into jazzbo-land.  If that's
> > the
> > case, I need to listen and see if he's drifting off into fusion hell.
> > Last
> > person to pull that off well was Paul Schutze, in my opinion.
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>


-- 
Regards,

Rudy Carrera
http://rudycarrera.com/wp/
http://myspace.com/racarrera
--Boundary_(ID_MNI5aPpf7w6M3SLwWBTK2w)--

From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 21:09:30 2006
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the press info stated -

... but this sounds like
> the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and
> electronics with a single
> stroke

it's not jazz...it's just...damn, it's just you wish he'd never let his label state such nonsense. it's hard to listen to things, especially when the guy was always good, when he's letting people talk his work up to a degree that he will never reach. that's not a diss to him, but seriously - how many people are really creating new approaches to jazz these days? not many i'd wager, and certainly not Mr Toral with this release.

I hasten to add, it's by no means terrible. It's not blowing me away, nor making me that excited to give it a repeated listen (which i am as we speak) but it's not terrible.

-d


Rudy Carrera wrote:
> On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it sounded
>> like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since
>> leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new language
>> of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.
>>
>> -d
>>
>> Rudy Carrera wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
>> >> > oren ambarchi
>> >>
>> > Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be
>> > surprised if
>> > this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because
>> > otherwise,
>> > he's quite brilliant.
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>>
> I missed that.  I had no idea he went off into jazzbo-land.  If that's 
> the
> case, I need to listen and see if he's drifting off into fusion hell.  
> Last
> person to pull that off well was Paul Schutze, in my opinion.
>

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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 20:16:42 2006
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if by either you mean ambarchi and toral, well to this day i've never 
heard anything by ambarchi i didn't like and i've enjoyed almost 
everything from toral. I guess they have to fuck up at some point...

(and maybe he hasn't....maybe it is a grower...)

i'm just left with a feeling that, as i've said previously, this 
deliberate move to leave the guitar was the first idea and what he was 
going to do in its absence was a distant second.

i'll put it on again now

-d

Rudy Carrera wrote:
> On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it sounded
>> like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since
>> leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new language
>> of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.
>>
>> -d
>>
>> Rudy Carrera wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
>> >> > oren ambarchi
>> >>
>> > Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be
>> > surprised if
>> > this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because
>> > otherwise,
>> > he's quite brilliant.
>> >
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>>
> Well, I'm of the mind that you can't go wrong with either, for different
> reasons.  Maybe you're right: it may grow on you.
>

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On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it sounded
> like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since
> leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new language
> of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.
>
> -d
>
> Rudy Carrera wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
> >>
> >> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
> >> > oren ambarchi
> >>
> > Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be
> > surprised if
> > this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because
> > otherwise,
> > he's quite brilliant.
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>
I missed that.  I had no idea he went off into jazzbo-land.  If that's the
case, I need to listen and see if he's drifting off into fusion hell.  Last
person to pull that off well was Paul Schutze, in my opinion.

-- 
Regards,

Rudy Carrera
http://rudycarrera.com/wp/
http://myspace.com/racarrera
--Boundary_(ID_TVzja8mA4Ey40v2ku7ZwGw)--

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On 9/28/06, David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it sounded
> like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since
> leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new language
> of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.
>
> -d
>
> Rudy Carrera wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
> >>
> >> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
> >> > oren ambarchi
> >>
> > Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be
> > surprised if
> > this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because
> > otherwise,
> > he's quite brilliant.
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>
Well, I'm of the mind that you can't go wrong with either, for different
reasons.  Maybe you're right: it may grow on you.

-- 
Regards,

Rudy Carrera
http://rudycarrera.com/wp/
http://myspace.com/racarrera
--Boundary_(ID_rzsru3uUyRtUn8+Xmc8MNA)--

From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 19:43:21 2006
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that's what i thought. perhaps repeated listens will change my mind, but 
so far, gimme 'barchi any day.

-d

Bill Jarboe wrote:
>
> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
>
>>  parts sound like a poor imitation of
>> oren ambarchi
>
>
> Wow. Maybe I'd like it!
>
>
>
>                    -b
>
>
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 19:43:54 2006
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 20:41:30 +0100
From: David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
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You'd be surprised someone who had heard the record decided it sounded 
like someone else? He did have a unique voice in his work but since 
leaving the guitar and supposedly moving forth to create a new language 
of jazz or whatever he called it he sounds like he's out of ideas.

-d

Rudy Carrera wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
>>
>> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
>> > oren ambarchi
>>
> Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be 
> surprised if
> this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because 
> otherwise,
> he's quite brilliant.
>

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On 9/28/06, Bill Jarboe <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
> On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:
>
> >  parts sound like a poor imitation of
> > oren ambarchi
>
>
> Wow. Maybe I'd like it!
>
>
>
>                     -b
>
>
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>
Rafael tends to have a pretty unique voice in his work.  I'd be surprised if
this comparison were true.  Too bad, if that's the case, because otherwise,
he's quite brilliant.

-- 
Regards,

Rudy Carrera
http://rudycarrera.com/wp/
http://myspace.com/racarrera
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On Sep 28, 2006, at 3:38 AM, David Geraghty wrote:

>  parts sound like a poor imitation of
> oren ambarchi


Wow. Maybe I'd like it!



                    -b


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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 18:08:11 2006
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Hello List;

It's been a while since I've been a member of this list, so I'm saying hello
to people I know here, and introducing myself as someone who has a high
appreciation for the microsound ethic.  It's been interesting to monitor the
list from a distance, but I'd like to do what I can to make more
contributions here, if possible.

-- 
Regards,

Rudy A. Carrera
http://rudycarrera.com/wp/
http://myspace.com/racarrera
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 17:31:17 2006
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From: nick knouf <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] [ot] Learning musical instruments in non-Western
 socieities
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Quite an off-topic post, perhaps, but it relates to my thesis work,  
which _is_ involved with new ways to make sound...

Anyway, I'm interested in books/chapters/papers that explore how  
people learn musical instruments / music instruction in non-Western  
societies.  My own experience is through structured instruction in  
the US, and I know that there is a continuum from self-instruction to  
hyper-structure (like in the Suzuki method).  Yet I want to know how  
this differs when music is embedded in a ritual process, when it is  
not so separate from regular processes of daily and social life, when  
it isn't representative of another form of schooling.

If there are ethnomusicological texts that touch on these issues, or  
other online forums that are more appropriate to my question, please  
let me know.

Thanks!

nick

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> Such as, what is Art.  A motorcycle engine, or Jet engine

Sorry,
I have a picture and can't resist

http://museum.50megs.com/tokio/t05.html



nick kent
my online Japanese CD shop -
http://technopop.gemm.com/

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Kim,

The only offense is the total lack of any sense of humor... for example
when I put ";-)" at the end of a sentence that means I'm ribbing you.

"politics at beast".. haha .. how freudian ;-) ;-) again I'm joking
don't proceed to correct me on how this is or isn't freudian.. or in
now way related to marx, socialism or stockhausen. I dont' care. wink
wink wink

Lighten up allready.. seriously if every thread needs to include
socialist dogma then retitle the list as "microsocialist" or something
like that. Or at least include a warning on the homepage "all ye who
enter beware PHD level discussion of Marxism". ;-) <- note the winking.

thanks to all who took me up on a discussion of Perl.. I actually got
some usefull information out of that.. kudos to those who want to talk
about sound... I come here for that and that alone.

Here's a track I completed recently.. the title is not meant to be
offensive.

http://www.xdugef.com/x/audio/upcoming/pussyface.mp3


Adrian


--- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> > Doesn't placing "value" on art make one a capitalist? ;-)
> 
> no offense meant in what I am about to say here at all and I intend  
> full respect:
> but it is statements like these that make any debate difficult on  
> politics at beast without it turning into a hamstrung tutorial that  
> is then argued every step of the way with inaccurate comparisons and 
> 
> partly understood contexts...in other words in order to debate this  
> intelligently you need much more information...
> 
> placing 'value' does not make one a capitalist any more than looking 
> 
> at pastries in a bakery makes you a baker...maybe not a good analogy 
> 
> but I'm only on my first cuppa Joe


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Subject: [microsound] elephapples and applphants
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> Doesn't placing "value" on art make one a capitalist? ;-)

no offense meant in what I am about to say here at all and I intend  
full respect:
but it is statements like these that make any debate difficult on  
politics at beast without it turning into a hamstrung tutorial that  
is then argued every step of the way with inaccurate comparisons and  
partly understood contexts...in other words in order to debate this  
intelligently you need much more information...

placing 'value' does not make one a capitalist any more than looking  
at pastries in a bakery makes you a baker...maybe not a good analogy  
but I'm only on my first cuppa Joe


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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 14:54:24 2006
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 15:53:48 +0100
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Subject: [microsound] Adobe Audition for the Mac
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Hello,

This is not new but, unfortunately, I still have reasons to sign it:

http://www.petitiononline.com/djtobes/petition.html

RG
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 14:03:09 2006
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 10:02:51 -0400
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Subject: Re: [microsound] is there a search engine for MIDI files?
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thanks!


On 28-Sep-06, at 4:46 AM, David Geraghty wrote:

> kinda depends what kind of files you want (i imagine
> you're not into karaoke (but correct me if i'm wrong))
>
> http://www.musicrobot.com/
> http://www.midisite.co.uk/
> http://www.manythings.org/midi/search.html
> http://www.vanbasco.com/midisearch.html
> http://www.midi.com/
>
> p.s i checked and adorno said this post was OK.
>
> cheers
> -d
>
> --- Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
>
>> ?
>>
>> g.
>>
>>
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 12:18:08 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
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Music should speak for itself. 
Diatribes, commentary, liner notes, reviews, are obsolete.

I enjoy the new Toral, it's not groundbreaking however. I just find his work listenable, intriguing, and it matches my couch.
P!

Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2006 13:42:52 +0200
To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
From: steinbr=?ISO-8859-1?B?/A==?=chel <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
Message-ID: <C14181DC.343C%xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx>

very well said. exactly my thoughts as well.
thank you for this, ralph.

ps: by the way i even think i would like the album better
if he wouldn't have said or written anything to it, but just
would have left it as his next step or next release...

Am 28.9.2006 12:38 Uhr schrieb "David Geraghty" unter
<xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>:

> it almost sounds to me like he was forcing himself to
> avoid the guitar for no other reason that he thought
> it was passe now. parts sound like a poor imitation of
> oren ambarchi and i can't really see where three years
> of work went in making this.
>=20
> his previous records have been far superior and i
> can't help but thinking he's trying to convince us
> this is something new and amazing because he needs to
> convince himself.
>=20
> -d
> --- steinbr=FCchel <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
>=20
>> hi peter
>> here's the accompayning press blah from the
>> staubgold website and in the
>> booklet of the release it's slightly more detailed.
>> when i read the text and
>> then listen to the music i just don't think he was
>> or is successful in what
>> his aims are. the album is nice and has some
>> interesting sounds, but it's
>> not at all a new approach to anything. i even think
>> it's less interesting
>> and complex then his previous work.

                 
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 11:43:00 2006
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very well said. exactly my thoughts as well.
thank you for this, ralph.

ps: by the way i even think i would like the album better
if he wouldn't have said or written anything to it, but just
would have left it as his next step or next release...


Am 28.9.2006 12:38 Uhr schrieb "David Geraghty" unter
<xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>:

> it almost sounds to me like he was forcing himself to
> avoid the guitar for no other reason that he thought
> it was passe now. parts sound like a poor imitation of
> oren ambarchi and i can't really see where three years
> of work went in making this.
> 
> his previous records have been far superior and i
> can't help but thinking he's trying to convince us
> this is something new and amazing because he needs to
> convince himself.
> 
> -d
> --- steinbrüchel <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> 
>> hi peter
>> here's the accompayning press blah from the
>> staubgold website and in the
>> booklet of the release it's slightly more detailed.
>> when i read the text and
>> then listen to the music i just don't think he was
>> or is successful in what
>> his aims are. the album is nice and has some
>> interesting sounds, but it's
>> not at all a new approach to anything. i even think
>> it's less interesting
>> and complex then his previous work.
>> 
>> especially the part in the text where it's stating
>> .".. but this sounds like
>> the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and
>> electronics with a single
>> stroke".
>> 
>> sure it's the combination of electronic abstract
>> gliding tones and some
>> trumpet or similar (probably by sei miguel) over it,
>> but "new approach with
>> a single stroke" just sounds like a joke to me.
>> 
>> maybe my expectations where or are to high, but for
>> a release with a press
>> text stating all these things (3 years research,
>> blabla...) it's just by far
>> not good (or new) enough.
>> 
>> best to all,
>> ralph.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> "Space", the new album by Rafael Toral, marks a
>> radical change in his music
>> after 15+ years of accomplished work on guitar and
>> electronics. "The future
>> perspectives of my former approach to music were
>> threatening to become a
>> comfortable, formulaic 'modus operandi'. It would be
>> against my nature to
>> accept such a development, so I serenely decided to
>> terminate it."
>> 
>> It took him three years to find his way into a
>> complete renovation of his
>> music: "For a new endeavor I needed new information,
>> and I discovered that
>> the field of knowledge in music that I had most to
>> learn from was jazz.
>> There is a long line of connections and fusions
>> between jazz and electronic
>> music, and I envisioned that a step beyond would not
>> be more jazz with
>> electronics, but on electronics." It may sound
>> exaggerated, but this sounds
>> like the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz
>> and electronics with a
>> single stroke.
>> 
>> In his emerging new conception of electronic music,
>> Toral looks to the value
>> of human performance while sharing values from jazz
>> culture. His playing is
>> "articulated with a kind of individual decision, a
>> sense of phrasing and a
>> sensibility to rhythm and form that have little in
>> common with the types of
>> electronic music we know". Quoting Sei Miguel, he
>> says it's "not composed,
>> not improvised, and not a compromise between the
>> two".
>> 
>> In recent years, Rafael Toral has been developing
>> and performing solo
>> concerts on his instruments (modified or
>> custom-built electronic devices) in
>> a field of work he calls the "Space program". He
>> slowly merged hours of live
>> and studio recordings into "Space" (the program's
>> first release), which is
>> no less than a full orchestra of such instruments.
>> The result suggests that
>> the expression "space-jazz" was invented before the
>> music it would describe
>> best.
>> 
>> The "Space program" is a vast and ambitious
>> undertaking, featuring two
>> parallel series of record releases: "Space Elements"
>> - centering each volume
>> on a certain instrument, while adding few others and
>> featuring
>> collaborations; and the "Solo Series" - documenting
>> solo performance on
>> various instruments. The album "Space" belongs to
>> none of the series. It is
>> the "Space program's" fundamental release.
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Am 28.9.2006 11:44 Uhr schrieb "p jørgensen" unter
>> <x@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>:
>> 
>>> please explain, ralph.
>>> 
>>> /peter
>>> 
>>> Den 27/9-2006, kl. 16.30, skrev steinbrüchel:
>>> 
>>>>> In other news, I'm really enjoying Raphael
>> Toral's new lp. He's moved
>>>>> on to
>>>>> making his own hardware I think.
>>>> 
>>>> i was very disappointed with this new release by
>> raphael toral.
>>>> especially
>>>> after reading the contents of the booklet and his
>> aim towards music.
>>>> check
>>>> also the interview/article on him in the new
>> issue of the wire...
>>>> 
>>>> ralph
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> -- 
>> http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 10:38:48 2006
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From: David Geraghty <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
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it almost sounds to me like he was forcing himself to
avoid the guitar for no other reason that he thought
it was passe now. parts sound like a poor imitation of
oren ambarchi and i can't really see where three years
of work went in making this. 

his previous records have been far superior and i
can't help but thinking he's trying to convince us
this is something new and amazing because he needs to
convince himself.

-d
--- steinbrüchel <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:

> hi peter
> here's the accompayning press blah from the
> staubgold website and in the
> booklet of the release it's slightly more detailed.
> when i read the text and
> then listen to the music i just don't think he was
> or is successful in what
> his aims are. the album is nice and has some
> interesting sounds, but it's
> not at all a new approach to anything. i even think
> it's less interesting
> and complex then his previous work.
> 
> especially the part in the text where it's stating
> .".. but this sounds like
> the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and
> electronics with a single
> stroke".
> 
> sure it's the combination of electronic abstract
> gliding tones and some
> trumpet or similar (probably by sei miguel) over it,
> but "new approach with
> a single stroke" just sounds like a joke to me.
> 
> maybe my expectations where or are to high, but for
> a release with a press
> text stating all these things (3 years research,
> blabla...) it's just by far
> not good (or new) enough.
> 
> best to all,
> ralph.
> 
> --
> 
> "Space", the new album by Rafael Toral, marks a
> radical change in his music
> after 15+ years of accomplished work on guitar and
> electronics. "The future
> perspectives of my former approach to music were
> threatening to become a
> comfortable, formulaic 'modus operandi'. It would be
> against my nature to
> accept such a development, so I serenely decided to
> terminate it."
> 
> It took him three years to find his way into a
> complete renovation of his
> music: "For a new endeavor I needed new information,
> and I discovered that
> the field of knowledge in music that I had most to
> learn from was jazz.
> There is a long line of connections and fusions
> between jazz and electronic
> music, and I envisioned that a step beyond would not
> be more jazz with
> electronics, but on electronics." It may sound
> exaggerated, but this sounds
> like the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz
> and electronics with a
> single stroke.
> 
> In his emerging new conception of electronic music,
> Toral looks to the value
> of human performance while sharing values from jazz
> culture. His playing is
> "articulated with a kind of individual decision, a
> sense of phrasing and a
> sensibility to rhythm and form that have little in
> common with the types of
> electronic music we know". Quoting Sei Miguel, he
> says it's "not composed,
> not improvised, and not a compromise between the
> two".
> 
> In recent years, Rafael Toral has been developing
> and performing solo
> concerts on his instruments (modified or
> custom-built electronic devices) in
> a field of work he calls the "Space program". He
> slowly merged hours of live
> and studio recordings into "Space" (the program's
> first release), which is
> no less than a full orchestra of such instruments.
> The result suggests that
> the expression "space-jazz" was invented before the
> music it would describe
> best.
> 
> The "Space program" is a vast and ambitious
> undertaking, featuring two
> parallel series of record releases: "Space Elements"
> - centering each volume
> on a certain instrument, while adding few others and
> featuring
> collaborations; and the "Solo Series" - documenting
> solo performance on
> various instruments. The album "Space" belongs to
> none of the series. It is
> the "Space program's" fundamental release.
> 
> --
> 
> Am 28.9.2006 11:44 Uhr schrieb "p jørgensen" unter
> <x@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>:
> 
> > please explain, ralph.
> > 
> > /peter
> > 
> > Den 27/9-2006, kl. 16.30, skrev steinbrüchel:
> > 
> >>> In other news, I'm really enjoying Raphael
> Toral's new lp. He's moved
> >>> on to
> >>> making his own hardware I think.
> >> 
> >> i was very disappointed with this new release by
> raphael toral.
> >> especially
> >> after reading the contents of the booklet and his
> aim towards music.
> >> check
> >> also the interview/article on him in the new
> issue of the wire...
> >> 
> >> ralph
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>
>
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> > 
> > 
> >
>
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> 
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> http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.
> 
> 
> 
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 10:12:37 2006
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From: Imoteon <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] fennesz linkous
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To my knowledge, the two live they've done (there were only two,  
weren't there ?) has not been released as CD. I remember seeing some  
non-official recording over the net, but the sound were pretty bad -  
you'd hear as much Fennesz and Linkous as people talking and  
coughing. Well. Pirate live recordings... I think with a bit of  
searching you should find them anyway if your interested.

Julien.


Le 28 sept. 06 à 11:49, p jørgensen a écrit :

> sorry in advance to anyone who finds this question to be off topic.
> seems kinda hard to please everyone these days...
>
> does anyone know if (live)recordings of the collaboration between
> christian fennesz and mark linkous aka sparklehorse exists?

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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 10:06:10 2006
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hi peter
here's the accompayning press blah from the staubgold website and in the
booklet of the release it's slightly more detailed. when i read the text and
then listen to the music i just don't think he was or is successful in what
his aims are. the album is nice and has some interesting sounds, but it's
not at all a new approach to anything. i even think it's less interesting
and complex then his previous work.

especially the part in the text where it's stating .".. but this sounds like
the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and electronics with a single
stroke".

sure it's the combination of electronic abstract gliding tones and some
trumpet or similar (probably by sei miguel) over it, but "new approach with
a single stroke" just sounds like a joke to me.

maybe my expectations where or are to high, but for a release with a press
text stating all these things (3 years research, blabla...) it's just by far
not good (or new) enough.

best to all,
ralph.

--

"Space", the new album by Rafael Toral, marks a radical change in his music
after 15+ years of accomplished work on guitar and electronics. "The future
perspectives of my former approach to music were threatening to become a
comfortable, formulaic 'modus operandi'. It would be against my nature to
accept such a development, so I serenely decided to terminate it."

It took him three years to find his way into a complete renovation of his
music: "For a new endeavor I needed new information, and I discovered that
the field of knowledge in music that I had most to learn from was jazz.
There is a long line of connections and fusions between jazz and electronic
music, and I envisioned that a step beyond would not be more jazz with
electronics, but on electronics." It may sound exaggerated, but this sounds
like the blueprint for a new approach to both jazz and electronics with a
single stroke.

In his emerging new conception of electronic music, Toral looks to the value
of human performance while sharing values from jazz culture. His playing is
"articulated with a kind of individual decision, a sense of phrasing and a
sensibility to rhythm and form that have little in common with the types of
electronic music we know". Quoting Sei Miguel, he says it's "not composed,
not improvised, and not a compromise between the two".

In recent years, Rafael Toral has been developing and performing solo
concerts on his instruments (modified or custom-built electronic devices) in
a field of work he calls the "Space program". He slowly merged hours of live
and studio recordings into "Space" (the program's first release), which is
no less than a full orchestra of such instruments. The result suggests that
the expression "space-jazz" was invented before the music it would describe
best.

The "Space program" is a vast and ambitious undertaking, featuring two
parallel series of record releases: "Space Elements" - centering each volume
on a certain instrument, while adding few others and featuring
collaborations; and the "Solo Series" - documenting solo performance on
various instruments. The album "Space" belongs to none of the series. It is
the "Space program's" fundamental release.

--

Am 28.9.2006 11:44 Uhr schrieb "p jørgensen" unter <x@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>:

> please explain, ralph.
> 
> /peter
> 
> Den 27/9-2006, kl. 16.30, skrev steinbrüchel:
> 
>>> In other news, I'm really enjoying Raphael Toral's new lp. He's moved
>>> on to
>>> making his own hardware I think.
>> 
>> i was very disappointed with this new release by raphael toral.
>> especially
>> after reading the contents of the booklet and his aim towards music.
>> check
>> also the interview/article on him in the new issue of the wire...
>> 
>> ralph
>> 
>> -- 
>> http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>> 
> 
> 
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-- 
http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.



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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 09:48:58 2006
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sorry in advance to anyone who finds this question to be off topic.
seems kinda hard to please everyone these days...

does anyone know if (live)recordings of the collaboration between
christian fennesz and mark linkous aka sparklehorse exists?


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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 09:49:15 2006
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please explain, ralph.

/peter

Den 27/9-2006, kl. 16.30, skrev steinbrüchel:

>> In other news, I'm really enjoying Raphael Toral's new lp. He's moved 
>> on to
>> making his own hardware I think.
>
> i was very disappointed with this new release by raphael toral. 
> especially
> after reading the contents of the booklet and his aim towards music. 
> check
> also the interview/article on him in the new issue of the wire...
>
> ralph
>
> -- 
> http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 08:47:08 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] is there a search engine for MIDI files?
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kinda depends what kind of files you want (i imagine
you're not into karaoke (but correct me if i'm wrong))

http://www.musicrobot.com/
http://www.midisite.co.uk/
http://www.manythings.org/midi/search.html
http://www.vanbasco.com/midisearch.html
http://www.midi.com/

p.s i checked and adorno said this post was OK.

cheers
-d

--- Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:

> ?
> 
> g.
> 
>
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?

g.

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From ???@??? Thu Sep 28 00:32:39 2006
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i think i am going to do that now,

rinus

On 9/28/06, Brian Klein <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> i think i'm going to do that soon too
>
>
> carl kruger <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
>
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oops, i meant to just send that to carl.
  hahahhaha
  no offense.
  

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i think i'm going to do that soon too
  

carl kruger <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:  



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 22:06:28 2006
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Being that I live in the US I have a hard time imaging that even if
there was better distribution of wealth via socialism or any other ism
that artists would benefit significantly without assuming that there
would simply be more funding or grants for artists.

The internet for example has made it possible for sound artists and
musicians to get more exposure to a global audience but we are still
along way from taking down the record labels and actually selling music
online is still difficult. I just don't see that changing. 

I can sort of understand the concept of socialism when it comes to big
business and the workers but when it comes to everyday artists I don't
see it.. I mean I guess if you are represented by a gallery then 
perhaps but how many artists are???.. it all sounds very wishfull and
iffy.


But to get back onto the track I wanted to talk about is that it's hard
to convey specific meaning in (abstract art) or music that is abstract
(absent of lyrics or vocals). If I wrote volumes about how my music is
a reaction to the Gulf War.. the audience would have to read that to
really get it.

Adrian

BTW replying to all sends me two emails ;-)

--- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> > This certainly does not disconnect the concept of money from the
> term
> > "value".
> >
> 
> Socialists are not against money, money is a useful technology. It is
> a rational advance over barter, allowing for much more efficient
> exchanges. I'm not sure where the idea that socialism is against
> money
> comes from.
> 
> I have known anarchists who were against money. I almost got in
> trouble for paying the musicians who performed a piece of mine, which
> we presented in a space run by anarchists. I had to sneak everyone
> around the corner to give them their money (which was sadly only
> enough to cover beer and gasoline). This happened to be my first
> piece
> using live electronics (some of the sounds were microsound related)
> combined with live acoustic improvisers, and it went really well.
> 
> ~David


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On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> This certainly does not disconnect the concept of money from the term
> "value".
>

Socialists are not against money, money is a useful technology. It is
a rational advance over barter, allowing for much more efficient
exchanges. I'm not sure where the idea that socialism is against money
comes from.

I have known anarchists who were against money. I almost got in
trouble for paying the musicians who performed a piece of mine, which
we presented in a space run by anarchists. I had to sneak everyone
around the corner to give them their money (which was sadly only
enough to cover beer and gasoline). This happened to be my first piece
using live electronics (some of the sounds were microsound related)
combined with live acoustic improvisers, and it went really well.

~David

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> So, under socialism, artists should receive MORE of the value of
> their
> work not less. This wouldn't apply, of course, to the absurd prices
> which collectors pay for luxury works, but rather to the work done by
> more ordinary artists.
> 
> ~D

This certainly does not disconnect the concept of money from the term
"value".



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 21:27:38 2006
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From: Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] apples and elephants
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It's his own fault for not elaborating on exactly what type of "value"
he meant. ;-) 

Just as it was my own fault for not specifying that I was referring to
"style" in microsound and not folkmusic.

AD

--- Owen Green <xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> Xdugef wrote:
> > Doesn't placing "value" on art make one a capitalist? ;-)
> 
> If you limit 'value' to mean 'money' :)
> 
> --
> Owen
> 
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 21:22:19 2006
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Uh well like I said before I'm not really sure where this has gone or
is taking us but if you see an old oak tree.. you very well may
recognize when put aside pictures of other oak tries. Whereas you take
plane ride and then later ride on another plane of the same make and
model, do you think you would recognize wether or not it is the exact
same plane you were on before by simply looking at the engine?


Adrian

--- aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:

> Beauty in Nature is chaos,  but mass amounts of unorganized
> information 
> always tends to organize itself in a systematic manner.  Hence a tree
> 
> always looking like a tree, or a snowflake always looking like a 
> snowflake.  They may not be identical, but you know an oak from a
> palm, 
> just as you would know a Jet engine from a lawnmower engine.
> 
> aLEKs
> 
> 
> On Sep 27, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Xdugef wrote:
> 
> > Okay I don't know where this is going but the other difference is
> that
> > even though there are identifiable features of specific type sof
> > trees.. no two trees are visually the same whereas jets engines are
> > more or less the same except on some minute level.
> >
> > Beauty in nature is chaos whereas the beauty in manufacturing is in
> the
> > replication of form ..consider the influence Andy Warhol's Soup Can
> has
> > had on art and the source of it's inspiration.
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> >
> > --- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >> On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >>> Sure it can.. the difference being that one is an example of
> >> intense
> >>> detail created by nature and the other is about the intense
> detail
> >> of
> >>> something man made... maybe a blowup image of a cpu would be a
> >> better
> >>> example but...
> >>>
> >>> Duchamp pioneered the concept of ready mades etc.. sampling be
> >>> something equivalent in music.
> >>>
> >>> Adrian
> >>
> >> If humans are natural beings, than human creations are also
> natural.
> >> They are mediated by our creative intelligence, but still natural.
> >> They are certainly not supernatural. And if they exist in the
> >> physical
> >> world, they are not simply patterns in the human brain (which are
> >> also
> >> natural but different).
> >>
> >> More than that, the jet engine must function within the natural
> >> world,
> >> it must harness the natural forces--therefore, the processes (I
> >> hesitate to say "laws") of nature contribute decisively to its
> form.
> >> Just as the processes of nature shape the form of the tree.
> >>
> >> ~David
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> 
> 
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Xdugef wrote:
> Doesn't placing "value" on art make one a capitalist? ;-)

If you limit 'value' to mean 'money' :)

--
Owen

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On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, aleks vasic wrote:

> Beauty in Nature is chaos,  but mass amounts of unorganized information always
> tends to organize itself in a systematic manner.  Hence a tree always looking
> like a tree, or a snowflake always looking like a snowflake.  They may not be
> identical, but you know an oak from a palm, just as you would know a Jet
> engine from a lawnmower engine.

How are trees and snowflakes composed of unorganized masses? It seems 
likely that any observed disorder in the case of a tree is superficial and 
due to a lack of order finding faculties, that each leaf is symptomatic of 
organization. The axiom of choice seems always borne out, even if the 
choice function is without apparent sense, or inaccessible.

Just how are unorganised masses supposed to come about to be organised 
when there is, if not a prime mover, a before-this mover?

-- 
Dear Patron Saint,
your lips are lopsided
www.devo.com/exegene

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> --- alex <xxxx@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > SuperCollider is the other obvious thing to try.
> 
> Yea I've heard of Supercollider but unfortunately
> I'm decidely PC only,

As far as I know there is a functional build of
Supercollider for PC, called Psycollider.
http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=54622

There has been a concerted effort to not only port
Supercollider to PC, but to make code written in SC
truly cross-platform.
I am a long-time user of Supercollider on Mac, haven't
tried it on Linux or Win, but there are people out
there using it.

The announcement of the most recent major PC revision:
http://www.nabble.com/New-Psycollider---heiss---fettig-tf2141352.html#a5910452

Check the Supercollider User List Archive if you're
interested:
http://www.nabble.com/Supercollider---User-f535.html
OR:
http://www.create.ucsb.edu/pipermail/sc-users/



__________________________________________________
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 20:09:32 2006
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Beauty in Nature is chaos,  but mass amounts of unorganized information 
always tends to organize itself in a systematic manner.  Hence a tree 
always looking like a tree, or a snowflake always looking like a 
snowflake.  They may not be identical, but you know an oak from a palm, 
just as you would know a Jet engine from a lawnmower engine.

aLEKs


On Sep 27, 2006, at 3:36 PM, Xdugef wrote:

> Okay I don't know where this is going but the other difference is that
> even though there are identifiable features of specific type sof
> trees.. no two trees are visually the same whereas jets engines are
> more or less the same except on some minute level.
>
> Beauty in nature is chaos whereas the beauty in manufacturing is in the
> replication of form ..consider the influence Andy Warhol's Soup Can has
> had on art and the source of it's inspiration.
>
> Adrian
>
>
> --- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>> Sure it can.. the difference being that one is an example of
>> intense
>>> detail created by nature and the other is about the intense detail
>> of
>>> something man made... maybe a blowup image of a cpu would be a
>> better
>>> example but...
>>>
>>> Duchamp pioneered the concept of ready mades etc.. sampling be
>>> something equivalent in music.
>>>
>>> Adrian
>>
>> If humans are natural beings, than human creations are also natural.
>> They are mediated by our creative intelligence, but still natural.
>> They are certainly not supernatural. And if they exist in the
>> physical
>> world, they are not simply patterns in the human brain (which are
>> also
>> natural but different).
>>
>> More than that, the jet engine must function within the natural
>> world,
>> it must harness the natural forces--therefore, the processes (I
>> hesitate to say "laws") of nature contribute decisively to its form.
>> Just as the processes of nature shape the form of the tree.
>>
>> ~David
>>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> But I'm not the one that brought him up in the first place in reference
> to socialism.
>
> Doesn't placing "value" on art make one a capitalist? ;-)
>

No, placing a value on art does not in any sense make one a
capitalist. Socialism revolves around who owns the means of
production. In fact, Marxism says that workers are the source of
value, and that under capitalism, they do not receive a portion of it,
called surplus value, which instead goes to the capitalists as profit.

So, under socialism, artists should receive MORE of the value of their
work not less. This wouldn't apply, of course, to the absurd prices
which collectors pay for luxury works, but rather to the work done by
more ordinary artists.

~D

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Okay I don't know where this is going but the other difference is that
even though there are identifiable features of specific type sof
trees.. no two trees are visually the same whereas jets engines are
more or less the same except on some minute level. 
 
Beauty in nature is chaos whereas the beauty in manufacturing is in the
replication of form ..consider the influence Andy Warhol's Soup Can has
had on art and the source of it's inspiration.

Adrian


--- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > Sure it can.. the difference being that one is an example of
> intense
> > detail created by nature and the other is about the intense detail
> of
> > something man made... maybe a blowup image of a cpu would be a
> better
> > example but...
> >
> > Duchamp pioneered the concept of ready mades etc.. sampling be
> > something equivalent in music.
> >
> > Adrian
> 
> If humans are natural beings, than human creations are also natural.
> They are mediated by our creative intelligence, but still natural.
> They are certainly not supernatural. And if they exist in the
> physical
> world, they are not simply patterns in the human brain (which are
> also
> natural but different).
> 
> More than that, the jet engine must function within the natural
> world,
> it must harness the natural forces--therefore, the processes (I
> hesitate to say "laws") of nature contribute decisively to its form.
> Just as the processes of nature shape the form of the tree.
> 
> ~David
> 


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--- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> an analysis of LeWitt's work can be framed in any discipline:  
> Marxist, Lacanian, Freudian, Post-Structuralist, Phenomenologism,
> etc.
> in other words: it isn't the physical properties of his work which  
> relates to Marxism, but how one engages with the work and assigns  
> value to it...

You could say that about anything and knowing you.. you would.

But I'm not the one that brought him up in the first place in reference
to socialism.

Doesn't placing "value" on art make one a capitalist? ;-)


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On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Sure it can.. the difference being that one is an example of intense
> detail created by nature and the other is about the intense detail of
> something man made... maybe a blowup image of a cpu would be a better
> example but...
>
> Duchamp pioneered the concept of ready mades etc.. sampling be
> something equivalent in music.
>
> Adrian

If humans are natural beings, than human creations are also natural.
They are mediated by our creative intelligence, but still natural.
They are certainly not supernatural. And if they exist in the physical
world, they are not simply patterns in the human brain (which are also
natural but different).

More than that, the jet engine must function within the natural world,
it must harness the natural forces--therefore, the processes (I
hesitate to say "laws") of nature contribute decisively to its form.
Just as the processes of nature shape the form of the tree.

~David

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 19:17:03 2006
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Sure it can.. the difference being that one is an example of intense
detail created by nature and the other is about the intense detail of
something man made... maybe a blowup image of a cpu would be a better
example but...

Duchamp pioneered the concept of ready mades etc.. sampling be
something equivalent in music.

Adrian

--- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> On the other hand, it just struck me that there is often a strange
> beauty to functional objects. Perhaps it stems from the fact that the
> engine must harness the forces of nature, and thus in some sense is a
> part of nature. Can a jet engine be beautiful, in the way a tree is
> beautiful?
> 
> ~David


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--Boundary_(ID_rsSFyPDH7bk+SsOxnQazQA)
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> I like Sol LeWitt's work but looking at it the first thing that comes
> to mind is not Socialism.. that's for sure. But I guess the concept of
> idealised unity does.. one can allways dream.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0425/is_4_61/ai_96134618

> What is left out now, as it was in the 1970s, is any discussion or  
> even recognition of why such interpretative projections onto  
> abstract forms were and are convincingly made for and by a given  
> audience at any given time.


an analysis of LeWitt's work can be framed in any discipline:  
Marxist, Lacanian, Freudian, Post-Structuralist, Phenomenologism, etc.

in other words: it isn't the physical properties of his work which  
relates to Marxism, but how one engages with the work and assigns  
value to it...
--Boundary_(ID_rsSFyPDH7bk+SsOxnQazQA)--

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On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I am not saying that the process is more important than the end result
> but that doesn't mean that experimentation is invalid.
>
> I could have for example purchased or maybe even gotten for free a VST
> plugin that more or less does what I wrote in Perl.
....
> Obviously artists do not need to make every tool they use but
> personally I like to evaluate a process myself. In my working life I
> have found it far more usefull to try things myself if possible rather
> than to just take someone's word for it.
>
> Adrian

Ultimately, these are decisions that YOU as an artist have to make.
Only you can decide what your artistic goals are, and if your methods
are adequate to the goals.

Right now, I'm working on a setup where I have Pure Data running
custom generative stuff, that reacts based on what I play on the
keyboard. Ironically, PD is pumping MIDI data into Ableton, which is
acting as a host for VST's. It works great, and using Ableton as a
host lets me set up the instruments, pan them, and add a little
reverb, in about ten minutes. This lets me spend all my time
developing the PD side which is doing everything interesting.

My point is, that PD would allow me to not use proprietary software
like Ableton, and to create everything within PD. However, I've come
to realize that I HATE doing hardcore dsp in PD; though I'm fine doing
some fairly simple types of glitches, granular synthesis, and basic
traditional additive, subtractive and FM stuff. But I have no desire
to program my own reverbs, filters,  compressors, and tube simulators.
Using VST's is fine with me! (I can actually use VST's in PD on winXP,
by the way). Others, however, enjoy doing it all in PD, and if it
works for them, I think that's great.

My own philosophy is to use DIY where things don't exist, but to use
whatever tools are available, such as VST's and commercial hosts, to
focus my development time on the aspects of the project that really
matter. By plugging PD into Ableton, I get something that is far more
powerful than what Ableton could do on its own. I'm not using any
loops, or even tempos in Ableton, just using it as a host and
glorified mixing board. When I get a spare $100, I will actually be
switching to Plogue Bidule or Audiomulch as my host; Ableton is just
what I have that does the job well, and simply.

Anyway, if you enjoy the challenge of Perl, and you like the results,
I say go for it. But I'd also say, don't be afraid to switch
processes, if writing in Perl ever starts to hinder you from reaching
your artistic goals...

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On 27-Sep-06, at 2:15 PM, aleks vasic wrote:

> Yes i agree with you, but it also raises some sticky debate.  Such  
> as, what is Art.  A motorcycle engine, or Jet engine is designed  
> primarily for function/performance.

didn't harley davidson try and trademark the 'sound' of their engine?




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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 18:42:57 2006
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I feel an "ism" coming on. 

I am not saying that the process is more important than the end result
but that doesn't mean that experimentation is invalid.

I could have for example purchased or maybe even gotten for free a VST
plugin that more or less does what I wrote in Perl. Pragmatically you
could say that it works and it does what it was designed to do and if
your subjectivity leans that way then yes it's aesthetically
interesting. 

Yet somehow that leaves a completely hollow space inside me.

Obviously artists do not need to make every tool they use but
personally I like to evaluate a process myself. In my working life I
have found it far more usefull to try things myself if possible rather
than to just take someone's word for it. 

Adrian



--- aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:

> Yes i agree with you, but it also raises some sticky debate.  Such
> as, 
> what is Art.  A motorcycle engine, or Jet engine is designed
> primarily 
> for function/performance.  Its a tool.  But there is an aesthetic in 
> the end result that is appreciated by many, rightfully so i guess.  
> Many people would consider the entire process art, just as much as
> the 
> end result... Something similiar would be architecture.  It is art. 
> It 
> is judged on its aesthetic, but first and foremost is its 
> functionality.  Does it do what it is supposed to do and does it do
> it 
> well?
> 
> 
> aLEKs
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 27, 2006, at 2:07 PM, David Powers wrote:
> >
> > It's funny because last week I was just defending the importance of
> > process, as opposed to only viewing "the finished product".
> >
> > But, at the same time I don't believe in fetishizing the process,
> as
> > being more important than what results from a process. A process,
> in
> > my view, needs to be evaluated pragmatically: does it work? is it a
> > useful process? and yes, does it lead to "good results", including
> > artworks that are aesthetically interesting.
> >
> > ~David
> 
> > On 9/27/06, aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
> >> Depends on who is experiencing said work.  Many people value the
> >> process as much as the end result, if not more.
> >>
> >> What do different individuals see when they look at a Harley
> >> Motorcycle?  The Ramjet engine of of a vintage fighter plane?
> >>
> >> Also, sometimes art is the process, the study of Chaos theory has
> some
> >> great examples of this.


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 18:39:38 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Chuck
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Ah the old "what is art" question. My friend and I came upon a working
definition of art last night, while we were painting the floor of his
loft space/gallery: Art is something you get grant money for, that
makes people feel sophisticated while they stand around sipping wine
and BSing at the show opening... ;-)

Seriously though, perhaps the whole confusion arises from the fact
that every discipline has its own problems. It can be misleading to
talk about Art sometimes, when there are significant differences
between different art forms.

For instance, In architecture, function will be much more important
than in painting. Dance music has to function, in a way that music for
a seated concert audience does not. We can't decide in advance,
whether something is able to be art or not based on its function.

I think there are pieces of dance music and architecture that rise to
the level of art. However, I think we can all agree that the condos
outside where I work are really ugly, and not art at all (not to
mention the function they play in gentrifying the community).

As far as jet engines, if someone says that the jet engine they built
is a work of art more than a functional engine, I'd rather not fly in
that plane...

On the other hand, it just struck me that there is often a strange
beauty to functional objects. Perhaps it stems from the fact that the
engine must harness the forces of nature, and thus in some sense is a
part of nature. Can a jet engine be beautiful, in the way a tree is
beautiful?

~David

On 9/27/06, aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
> Yes i agree with you, but it also raises some sticky debate.  Such as,
> what is Art.  A motorcycle engine, or Jet engine is designed primarily
> for function/performance.  Its a tool.  But there is an aesthetic in
> the end result that is appreciated by many, rightfully so i guess.
> Many people would consider the entire process art, just as much as the
> end result... Something similiar would be architecture.  It is art.  It
> is judged on its aesthetic, but first and foremost is its
> functionality.  Does it do what it is supposed to do and does it do it
> well?
>
>
> aLEKs
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sep 27, 2006, at 2:07 PM, David Powers wrote:
> >
> > It's funny because last week I was just defending the importance of
> > process, as opposed to only viewing "the finished product".
> >
> > But, at the same time I don't believe in fetishizing the process, as
> > being more important than what results from a process. A process, in
> > my view, needs to be evaluated pragmatically: does it work? is it a
> > useful process? and yes, does it lead to "good results", including
> > artworks that are aesthetically interesting.
> >
> > ~David
>
> > On 9/27/06, aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
> >> Depends on who is experiencing said work.  Many people value the
> >> process as much as the end result, if not more.
> >>
> >> What do different individuals see when they look at a Harley
> >> Motorcycle?  The Ramjet engine of of a vintage fighter plane?
> >>
> >> Also, sometimes art is the process, the study of Chaos theory has some
> >> great examples of this.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

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One could argue that one of Adorno's greatest weaknesses, was his
over-reliance on Freud. His critique of "primitive" and rhythmic
music, seem based on an idea that these things reflect an
"ego-regression" and return to infantilism. He was particularly
concerned that such regressions leave individuals open to fascism, and
authoritarian politics. Much of his work seeks to understand how and
why the barbarism of the Nazi regime occurred.

On the matter of rhythm, and the idea that it promotes some sort of
ego regression, I don't think it would be too hard to critique Adorno
in these matters. Not to mention the serious questions I'd have about
the validity of some of the underlying Freudian concepts.

On the other hand, his general observations on mass production of
culture, its banal form, and the ideological function it has, is often
quite on the mark. Many of his ideas seem entirely relevant in the age
of the Backstreet Boys and Brittany Spears, etc etc.

~David

On 9/27/06, Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I know I just scoffed at him in a previous email, but Adorno is an
> important critic of Capitalism's (oh no, an ism!) effect on music,
> which makes a lot of sense if you just watch MTV or listen to any of
> the five or six identical stations on your FM radio.
>
> But, he was quite the Classical music snob, so I doubt that he'd
> appreciate much microsound, or loop-based music at all!  However, this
> hatred of "commodified music," of which most microsound (especially if
> on a netlabel) is arguably spared the title, does stem from his
> Marxian beliefs.
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 9/27/06, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > > Maybe I missed the point but as an example how does socialism
> > > relate to
> > > a style of music? <- see I'm making this appropriately topical. ;-)
> >
> > you really ought to get out more! ;)
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_politics
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_Rzewski
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Cardew
> > http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=55tp00
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_musicians
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Adorno
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> http://theradioproject.com
> http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
>
> (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
> (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
> ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
> _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
> ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
>
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Yes i agree with you, but it also raises some sticky debate.  Such as, 
what is Art.  A motorcycle engine, or Jet engine is designed primarily 
for function/performance.  Its a tool.  But there is an aesthetic in 
the end result that is appreciated by many, rightfully so i guess.  
Many people would consider the entire process art, just as much as the 
end result... Something similiar would be architecture.  It is art.  It 
is judged on its aesthetic, but first and foremost is its 
functionality.  Does it do what it is supposed to do and does it do it 
well?


aLEKs





On Sep 27, 2006, at 2:07 PM, David Powers wrote:
>
> It's funny because last week I was just defending the importance of
> process, as opposed to only viewing "the finished product".
>
> But, at the same time I don't believe in fetishizing the process, as
> being more important than what results from a process. A process, in
> my view, needs to be evaluated pragmatically: does it work? is it a
> useful process? and yes, does it lead to "good results", including
> artworks that are aesthetically interesting.
>
> ~David

> On 9/27/06, aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
>> Depends on who is experiencing said work.  Many people value the
>> process as much as the end result, if not more.
>>
>> What do different individuals see when they look at a Harley
>> Motorcycle?  The Ramjet engine of of a vintage fighter plane?
>>
>> Also, sometimes art is the process, the study of Chaos theory has some
>> great examples of this.


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 18:12:30 2006
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I like Sol LeWitt's work but looking at it the first thing that comes
to mind is not Socialism.. that's for sure. But I guess the concept of
idealised unity does.. one can allways dream.

Adrian
 

--- xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx wrote:

> consider the socialist goals of minimalist art- Sol LeWitt especially
> was
> interested in "universal"/shared experience that didnt rely upon
> access to
> education or other facets of high culture- whether he succeeded or
> not is
> an issue for debate.....
> 
> > Goddamn wikipedia.. it'd be nice if "you" could write your own
> retorts
> > ;-)
> >
> > I guess I was really thinking more in terms of microsound.. lyrics
> are
> > obvious... this isn't the folkmusic list etc..
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> > --- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >> > Maybe I missed the point but as an example how does socialism
> >> > relate to
> >> > a style of music? <- see I'm making this appropriately topical.
> ;-)
> >>
> >> you really ought to get out more! ;)
> >>
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_politics
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_Rzewski
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Cardew
> >> http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=55tp00
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_musicians
> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Adorno
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> 
> 
> 


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David,

I don't really know how to take this statement "I don't value
challenges, in themselves". To each his own.. I certainly wouldn't
expect everyone to feel this way wether you are talking about art or
anything else. I find living is pretty challenging on it's own let
alone making art so I gotta get my kicks where I can... if it's by
challenging myself wether or not the outcome is heralded as brilliant
or horrible I don't really care.

I went with Perl because it was familiar so I did not set myself up for
too much of a challenge. I could have tried programming in C if I
wanted to hang myself. I am also familiar with Csound, PD and Max. I
choose Perl for the afore mentioned reasons of working with the theme
of forcing hardware or software not designed to make sound ..to make
sound or to make soudn differently than it was intended.

I certainly wasn't implying that doing things this way made the work
more aesthetically pleasing or meaningful. But at the same time it's
undeniable that process and technology has not driven change in art and
music.

Adrian


--- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I don't value challenges, in themselves; however, there working
> within
> strict limitations is a really productive technique for some artists.
> I think it creates tension in an artwork. It is, perhaps, a
> substitute
> for the tension that used to exist between the socially given genres
> (sonata, symphony, etc.) and the individual's artistic vision. With
> the fragmentation of culture, artists now often create their own
> rules, not to simply follow them, but rather in order to struggle
> against them.
> 
> Schoenberg's 12-tone method of composition could be viewed as an
> early
> example of this. Though it's rather bizarre, to me, that Schoenberg
> tried to use classical forms with 12-tone content, as if the very
> existence of the tone row did not demand it's own form. Webern was
> much more advanced in creating overall forms that matched the logic
> of
> the 12-tone compositional method.
> 
> Of course, the aesthetic meaning of struggling against a challenge a
> composer chooses individually, might be very different than the
> struggle of an artist working within a socially given set of norms.
> 
> Also,  that a given work was difficult, or a challenge to create,
> does
> not make the end result aesthetically meaningful per se.
> 
> ~David
> 


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On 9/27/06, aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
> Depends on who is experiencing said work.  Many people value the
> process as much as the end result, if not more.
>
> What do different individuals see when they look at a Harley
> Motorcycle?  The Ramjet engine of of a vintage fighter plane?
>
> Also, sometimes art is the process, the study of Chaos theory has some
> great examples of this.
>

It's funny because last week I was just defending the importance of
process, as opposed to only viewing "the finished product".

But, at the same time I don't believe in fetishizing the process, as
being more important than what results from a process. A process, in
my view, needs to be evaluated pragmatically: does it work? is it a
useful process? and yes, does it lead to "good results", including
artworks that are aesthetically interesting.

~David

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 17:37:56 2006
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Because after all,  if you haven't absorbed and accepted socialist theory, 
you MUST be an ignorant shut in! ;)

~ !J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com
http://www.thirdwavecollective.com




>> Maybe I missed the point but as an example how does socialism
>> relate to
>> a style of music? <- see I'm making this appropriately topical. ;-)
>
> you really ought to get out more! ;)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_politics
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_Rzewski
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Cardew
> http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=55tp00
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_musicians
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Adorno
>
>
> 



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 17:35:20 2006
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>> And, of course, "family planning" is for when you plan not to have a 
>> family. Go figure.
>> All of my kids were unplanned, but that doesn't mean they were unwanted.
> [http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2006/09/21/onion.html?page=2]
>
> as a linguist he is pointing out the inconsistency of the phrase
> 'family planning'.


I beg to differ.

Family planning is exactly that, no inconsistency involved:  you can choose 
not to have children (as in MY family, and we ARE a family), you can choose 
to select when to have children and how many, or you can choose not to plan 
at all.

A linguist might be expected to be more precise, but a wingnut with an 
agenda to push (if he is one, I dont know) would intentionally resort to 
dogma and attempt to spin the issue their own way.

~ !J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com
http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
 



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 17:09:42 2006
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Depends on who is experiencing said work.  Many people value the 
process as much as the end result, if not more.

What do different individuals see when they look at a Harley 
Motorcycle?  The Ramjet engine of of a vintage fighter plane?

Also, sometimes art is the process, the study of Chaos theory has some 
great examples of this.

aLEKs

On Sep 27, 2006, at 12:55 PM, David Powers wrote:
>
>
> Also,  that a given work was difficult, or a challenge to create, does
> not make the end result aesthetically meaningful per se.
>
> ~David
>
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 17:03:07 2006
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On Sep 27, 2006, at 12:16 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

> from English Marxist Christopher Caudwell's essay 'The Concept of  
> Freedom':
>
>     'But art is in any case not a relation to a thing, it is a  
> relation between men, between artist and audience, and the art work  
> is only like a machine which they must both grasp as part of the  
> process. The commercialisation of art may revolt the sincere  
> artist, but the tragedy is that he revolts against it still within  
> the limitations of bourgeois culture. He attempts to forget the  
> market completely and concentrate on his relation to the art work,  
> which now becomes further hypostatized as an entity-in-itself.  
> Because the art work is now completely an end-in-itself, and even  
> the market is forgotten, the art process becomes an extremely  
> individualistic relation. The social values inherent in the art  
> form, such as syntax, tradition, rules, technique, form, accepted  
> tonal scale, now seem to have little value, for the art work more  
> and more exists for the individial alone.'

an interesting topic, when was this written? my first thought would  
be to
put this in the context of the way that electronic culture has  
changed the
way the marketplace works, and whether the idea of "bourgeois culture"
still applies in this regard. certainly for me i would take issue  
with the idea
that the work becomes hypostatized and isolated in revolting against the
forces of commercialization, but then again, i am not much of a  
political
thinker or philosopher and might not be able to back that statement up.
best
bruce


bruce tovsky
www.skeletonhome.com

"Sometimes the appropriate response to reality is to go insane."
Philip K. Dick

--Boundary_(ID_AqHRpNOEDGp4zc+Rwj28bA)--

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I know I just scoffed at him in a previous email, but Adorno is an
important critic of Capitalism's (oh no, an ism!) effect on music,
which makes a lot of sense if you just watch MTV or listen to any of
the five or six identical stations on your FM radio.

But, he was quite the Classical music snob, so I doubt that he'd
appreciate much microsound, or loop-based music at all!  However, this
hatred of "commodified music," of which most microsound (especially if
on a netlabel) is arguably spared the title, does stem from his
Marxian beliefs.

~Kyle

On 9/27/06, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > Maybe I missed the point but as an example how does socialism
> > relate to
> > a style of music? <- see I'm making this appropriately topical. ;-)
>
> you really ought to get out more! ;)
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_politics
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_Rzewski
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Cardew
> http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=55tp00
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_musicians
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Adorno
>
>
>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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On 9/27/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> It would also be easier to build the ship outside the bottle but people
> still build ships in bottles for the challenge. ;-0

>
> Adrian

I don't value challenges, in themselves; however, there working within
strict limitations is a really productive technique for some artists.
I think it creates tension in an artwork. It is, perhaps, a substitute
for the tension that used to exist between the socially given genres
(sonata, symphony, etc.) and the individual's artistic vision. With
the fragmentation of culture, artists now often create their own
rules, not to simply follow them, but rather in order to struggle
against them.

Schoenberg's 12-tone method of composition could be viewed as an early
example of this. Though it's rather bizarre, to me, that Schoenberg
tried to use classical forms with 12-tone content, as if the very
existence of the tone row did not demand it's own form. Webern was
much more advanced in creating overall forms that matched the logic of
the 12-tone compositional method.

Of course, the aesthetic meaning of struggling against a challenge a
composer chooses individually, might be very different than the
struggle of an artist working within a socially given set of norms.

Also,  that a given work was difficult, or a challenge to create, does
not make the end result aesthetically meaningful per se.

~David

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On 9/27/06, { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Basic forms and ornament are set beyond performance, and,
> like a concert pianist, the artist surrenders design and
> situates creativity in the constricted realm of technology.
> It might be that, needing money, artists make things they do
> not admire, that might please the patron/institution but
> cannot stand as fully achieved signs of creative competence.

Maybe, but it's just as likely that artists have day jobs, so that
they can create what they want, when they want, and not have to
comporomise. Well, unless you are talking about graphic designers and
advert people ... ;-)

~David

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 16:17:02 2006
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From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] a good quote -- maybe worthy of discussion?
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--Boundary_(ID_rMIBbkJ8dXn3AHy76/0xgA)
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from English Marxist Christopher Caudwell's essay 'The Concept of  
Freedom':

     'But art is in any case not a relation to a thing, it is a  
relation between men, between artist and audience, and the art work  
is only like a machine which they must both grasp as part of the  
process. The commercialisation of art may revolt the sincere artist,  
but the tragedy is that he revolts against it still within the  
limitations of bourgeois culture. He attempts to forget the market  
completely and concentrate on his relation to the art work, which now  
becomes further hypostatized as an entity-in-itself. Because the art  
work is now completely an end-in-itself, and even the market is  
forgotten, the art process becomes an extremely individualistic  
relation. The social values inherent in the art form, such as syntax,  
tradition, rules, technique, form, accepted tonal scale, now seem to  
have little value, for the art work more and more exists for the  
individial alone.'
--Boundary_(ID_rMIBbkJ8dXn3AHy76/0xgA)--

From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 16:14:27 2006
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From: craquemattic <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] also, a link to a very good book to read
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my favorite!!!!

On Sep 27, 2006, at 9:07 AM, Kim Cascone wrote:

> http://www.ubu.com/historical/cardew/index.html


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 16:12:08 2006
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From: craquemattic <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] How to... compose electroacoustic music
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i would definitely go the library route. stockhausen and cage scores  
are notoriously expensive, unfortunately, but immensely educational.

On Sep 27, 2006, at 9:01 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

> This is a fine suggestion.  Stockausen has a very complete library of
> works published to CD, and most contain excellent liner notes that
> feature discussion about the scores, which included performance
> instructions.  I don't know how difficult it would be to procure an
> actual score, but any university music department may be able to
> assist you.
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 9/27/06, craquemattic <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> i actually found a lot of great education in preparing and performing
>> the electroacoustic scores of cage, pauline oliveros, and
>> stockhausen. there's a lot of great pedagogical work to be had simply
>> by performing the scores of electroacoustic composers.
>>
>
> -- 
>
> http://theradioproject.com
> http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
>
> (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
> (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
> ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
> _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
> ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
>
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>


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 16:09:54 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Revitalization
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Basic forms and ornament are set beyond performance, and,
like a concert pianist, the artist surrenders design and
situates creativity in the constricted realm of technology.
It might be that, needing money, artists make things they do
not admire, that might please the patron/institution but
cannot stand as fully achieved signs of creative competence.

brad brace sound:
http://69.64.229.114:8000
http://bbrace.net/undisclosed.html


On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, David Powers wrote:

> I wasn't aware of artists having "patrons" these days. None of the
> people that enjoy my music "distrust" me. It's rather hard to
> understand what exactly your trying to get at.
>
> A mailing list like this could be considered a form a shared culture.
> But not a homogenous culture - which perhaps is a good thing.
>
> ~David
>
> >
> > When culture is not shared, when the patron distrusts the
> > artist, instructions elaborate andd creation is cramped.
> >
> > /:b


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 16:07:57 2006
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here's a good one on theory:

http://www.cambridge.org/uk/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521619920



> This is a fine suggestion.  Stockausen has a very complete library of
> works published to CD, and most contain excellent liner notes that
> feature discussion about the scores, which included performance
> instructions.  I don't know how difficult it would be to procure an
> actual score, but any university music department may be able to
> assist you.
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 9/27/06, craquemattic <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> i actually found a lot of great education in preparing and performing
>> the electroacoustic scores of cage, pauline oliveros, and
>> stockhausen. there's a lot of great pedagogical work to be had simply
>> by performing the scores of electroacoustic composers.
>>
>
> --
>
> http://theradioproject.com
> http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
>
> (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
> (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
> ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
> _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
> ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>



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From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] also, a link to a very good book to read
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http://www.ubu.com/historical/cardew/index.html
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Subject: RE: [microsound] How to... compose electroacoustic music
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The canadian electroacoustic community site http://sonus.ca has quite a
number of works to listen too/download...and a number of articles to read
covering a wide range of issues relevant to the composition/production of
electroacoustic works..........

//*-----Original Message-----
//*From: Kyle Klipowicz [mailto:xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx]
//*Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 12:02 PM
//*To: microsound
//*Subject: Re: [microsound] How to... compose electroacoustic music
//*
//*This is a fine suggestion.  Stockausen has a very complete library of
//*works published to CD, and most contain excellent liner notes that
//*feature discussion about the scores, which included performance
//*instructions.  I don't know how difficult it would be to procure an
//*actual score, but any university music department may be able to
//*assist you.
//*
//*~Kyle
//*
//*On 9/27/06, craquemattic <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
//*> i actually found a lot of great education in preparing and performing
//*> the electroacoustic scores of cage, pauline oliveros, and
//*> stockhausen. there's a lot of great pedagogical work to be had simply
//*> by performing the scores of electroacoustic composers.
//*>
//*
//*--
//*
//*http://theradioproject.com
//*http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
//*
//*(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
//*(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
//*))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
//*_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
//*((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
//*
//*---------------------------------------------------------------------
//*To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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//*website: http://www.microsound.org


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 16:06:58 2006
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Goddamn wikipedia.. it'd be nice if "you" could write your own retorts
;-)

I guess I was really thinking more in terms of microsound.. lyrics are
obvious... this isn't the folkmusic list etc..

Adrian

--- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> > Maybe I missed the point but as an example how does socialism  
> > relate to
> > a style of music? <- see I'm making this appropriately topical. ;-)
> 
> you really ought to get out more! ;)
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_politics
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_Rzewski
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Cardew
> http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=55tp00
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_musicians
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Adorno
> 
> 
> 


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This is a fine suggestion.  Stockausen has a very complete library of
works published to CD, and most contain excellent liner notes that
feature discussion about the scores, which included performance
instructions.  I don't know how difficult it would be to procure an
actual score, but any university music department may be able to
assist you.

~Kyle

On 9/27/06, craquemattic <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> i actually found a lot of great education in preparing and performing
> the electroacoustic scores of cage, pauline oliveros, and
> stockhausen. there's a lot of great pedagogical work to be had simply
> by performing the scores of electroacoustic composers.
>

-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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--- alex <xxxx@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> SuperCollider is the other obvious thing to try.

Yea I've heard of Supercollider but unfortunately I'm decidely PC only,
no offense I have used all the platforms at some point. MAX BTW has
been ported to the PC but I have heard it is not as stable.

> I've made an awful lot of music with Perl but am pretty sick of it.
> I've realised that it's better to use a language made for music. 
> Perl
> is great for (for example) string processing but it's not always the
> case that you want to treat music like a string.  ChucK and
> SuperCollider are made with music in mind so are much better suited.
> 
> Also many of the people behind Perl are complete religious nutcases.
> For example in a recent talk (state of the onion 10) Larry Wall
> railed against family planning.

Well I never would have guessed that.. guess I should burn all my Perl
books now... although O'Reilly must have censored him in the editorial
process.

Again besides knowing Perl allready one of my main goals was to use
something that did not lend itself to music. This was part of the theme
of the festival I was preparing for.

> At the moment I'm exploring using a language called Haskell98.  It's
> a
> very pure language, and easy to expand by making new operators and so
> on, so I'm hoping to make a language in it that is tailored for
> making
> the music I want to make.

Is this it?

http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell


> > The main reason I abandoned Csound back in the day is because I was
> > trying to mainly work with samples and I could not figure out how
> to
> > avoid loud annoying clicks.
> 
> I don't know about csound but I guess you would need to make sure the
> samples start and end at 0 by adding a small volume envelope to the
> start and end.

That seems obvious now but at the time I could not figure out how to do
it.

> Fair enough but interactive/live programming is not just a way of
> performing, it's also a way of developing.  If you can modify a
> program
> while it's running you can hear the results immediately, and so get a
> tight action/reaction feedback loop that might aide creativity.  But
> yes, totally down to personal preference.  In ChucK you do edit those
> scripts live (they call it on-the-fly programming over there).

It would also be easier to build the ship outside the bottle but people
still build ships in bottles for the challenge. ;-0

Hehe

Adrian

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> Maybe I missed the point but as an example how does socialism  
> relate to
> a style of music? <- see I'm making this appropriately topical. ;-)

you really ought to get out more! ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_and_politics
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_Rzewski
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cornelius_Cardew
http://www.newmusicbox.org/page.nmbx?id=55tp00
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_anarchist_musicians
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Adorno


--Boundary_(ID_TAl2rlor4VAbMxP6AUhtmw)--

From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 15:56:21 2006
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i actually found a lot of great education in preparing and performing  
the electroacoustic scores of cage, pauline oliveros, and  
stockhausen. there's a lot of great pedagogical work to be had simply  
by performing the scores of electroacoustic composers.

On Sep 27, 2006, at 12:22 AM, mel ducasse wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions/reading lists for books and  
> articles which deal specifically with the gestures and 'vocabulary'  
> of electroacoustic music? I'm not so interested in text which deal  
> with software processes; I'd like to find something that looks at  
> composition techniques which were developed before computers,  
> techniques which seem (to me)to have become a fairly standard set  
> of gestures.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
>
>
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well i'm glad we got that cleared up.


On 27 Sep 2006, at 16:47, { brad brace } wrote:

>
> Both are gifted artists. X preserves his art by means of
> subtle revitalization within the context of modernization.
> He is prosperous and unhappy. Y preserves his art by driving
> for personal excellence with a synchronic tradition of
> maintenance. He is not prosperous. He is happy.
>
> /:b
>
>
>
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Both are gifted artists. X preserves his art by means of
subtle revitalization within the context of modernization.
He is prosperous and unhappy. Y preserves his art by driving
for personal excellence with a synchronic tradition of
maintenance. He is not prosperous. He is happy.

/:b



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On 9/27/06, David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> A mailing list like this could be considered a form a shared culture.
> But not a homogenous culture - which perhaps is a good thing.


it is good because otherwise the differance that exists in the liminal
subterfuge of postmodern rants citing deleuze and adorno over and over
and over again no punctuation no paragraphs because structure is
modern and we are beyond all structure the type of writing that pays
to use overhyped jargon to diffuse the idea that maybe i'm not saying
anything but want to sound smart and didn't finish going to college or
even reading that intro to theory textbook but oh well i picked up a
few buzzwords and isms and can toss them around but don't ask me to
define my thoughts that is such 20th centuryism and we are beyond that
this is the digital micro age with marxian anticonsumerism and now all
i care about is being confusing because that is artistic and obtuse

..._>>
(because sigs are dead, long live sigs)

(This is just a joke, I respect everyone, really.  I just couldn't
pass it up! ~Kyle)

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hi

On 9/27/06, alex <xxxx@xxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Also many of the people behind Perl are complete religious nutcases.
> For example in a recent talk (state of the onion 10) Larry Wall railed
> against family planning.

this is completely not true!

larry is a bit nuts [as are most of the people on this list] but this
is what he said about family planning:

> And, of course, "family planning" is for when you plan not to have a family. Go figure.
> All of my kids were unplanned, but that doesn't mean they were unwanted.
[http://www.perl.com/pub/a/2006/09/21/onion.html?page=2]

as a linguist he is pointing out the inconsistency of the phrase
'family planning'. also, it was in the context of a drawn out
metaphorical description about perl as one of his kids [the entire
article is a good read if you have an active intellect or kids or
both]

and anyway, you can do whatever you want with perl [or haskell or
chuck or ..]. if you make a decision on whether to use a programming
language or not based on [mis-]perceived character flaws of it's
creators- well ... good luck to you!

> Free software always has a great buzz around, makes finding answers
> to questions very easy...

yeah- it's that community buzz ...

btw. the most complete perl 6 implementation runs on top of haskell
[in case you want to catch that community buzz again ...].

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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I wasn't aware of artists having "patrons" these days. None of the
people that enjoy my music "distrust" me. It's rather hard to
understand what exactly your trying to get at.

A mailing list like this could be considered a form a shared culture.
But not a homogenous culture - which perhaps is a good thing.

~David

>
> When culture is not shared, when the patron distrusts the
> artist, instructions elaborate andd creation is cramped.
>
> /:b
>
>
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On Tue, 26 Sep 2006, Thomas Yager-Madden wrote:

> On 9/26/06, { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> > A maintaining dynamic provides stability, while a
> > modernizing dynamic forces change. We tend to be satisfied
> > with a view of the world as a theatre of conflict between
> > stability and change. Collecting a congeries of phenomena
> > under the rubric of modernization, we project a future that
> > will be purified in a certain direction. ...
>
> what

When culture is not shared, when the patron distrusts the
artist, instructions elaborate andd creation is cramped.

/:b


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Intelligence is a point of reference.  What one might consider 
intelligent, another may consider moot, or beaten to death topically.  
Assumptious blanket statements on the other hand...


aLEKs


On Sep 27, 2006, at 10:10 AM, bryan garcia wrote:

> One of the aspects stupidity puts forth is that people
> prefer the act of "resisting intelligence," as it
> makes them feel more comfortable.
>
> there is a "dumbing down" of contemporary culture,
> evidenced by morons who accuse you of using language
> with big words.   dang.
>
> there is a film called idiocracy written by mike
> judge.  but it's supposed to be "just a movie".
>
> being there-
>
>
>
>
> --- aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> Ditto,
>>
>> That about sums it up for me...
>>
>>
>>
>> aLEKs
>>
>>
>> On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:53 PM, Graham Miller wrote:
>>
>>> i'm fine with the politics.  inseparable from
>> music. absolutely. yadda
>>> yadda. i totally agree. ditto for philosophy.
>>>
>>> my problem is just when the monthly socialist or
>> deleuze rant is
>>> considered more valid - more topical - to the
>> microsound list than
>>> someone posting a link to a microsound composition
>> they just uploaded.
>>>  or some neat piece of software used to make
>> microsound music.
>>>
>>> i mean geez.
>>>
>>> there's plenty of bandwidth for everyone. how's
>> that for socialist?
>>>
>>> delete and repeat.
>>>
>>> g.
>>>
>>> p.s. leffe brun how i love thee.
>>>
>>> On 26-Sep-06, at 10:13 PM, Jason Hollis wrote:
>>>
>>>> Oh, I enjoy talking politics.
>>>> I do it several times a day most days, actually.
>>>>
>>>> In politcal forums.
>>>>
>>>> You, as list-lord, obviously make the final call
>> as to enforcing off-
>>>> or on-topicness.
>>>> I'm just expressing how I feel on the matter.
>>>>
>>>> Or is that now verboten?
>>>> At this rate it wouldn't surprise me.
>>>>
>>>> ~ !J!
>>>> http://www.endif.org
>>>> http://www.crunchpod.com
>>>> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Cascone"
>>>> <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>>>> To: "microsound_list" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:46 PM
>>>> Subject: [microsound] take it elsewhere? I don't
>> think so...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Jason -- why don't you just tough it up, sit
>> back and enjoy the
>>>>> discussion?
>>>>> kinda like tofu, even though it might taste
>> funny, talking about
>>>>> politics is actually good for you...
>>>>> or if these sorts of things really rile you --
>> unsub and start your
>>>>> own list...
>>>>> and also, please don't proffer censorship on
>> this forum -- you can
>>>>> take *that* elsewhere thank you
>>>>> el hefe
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>>>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
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>> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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>>
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>
>
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 14:30:19 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Take Rafael Toral elsewhere?
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> In other news, I'm really enjoying Raphael Toral's new lp. He's moved on to
> making his own hardware I think.

i was very disappointed with this new release by raphael toral. especially
after reading the contents of the booklet and his aim towards music. check
also the interview/article on him in the new issue of the wire...

ralph
 
-- 
http://www.synchron.ch .:.::.:.



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 14:10:46 2006
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One of the aspects stupidity puts forth is that people
prefer the act of "resisting intelligence," as it
makes them feel more comfortable.   

there is a "dumbing down" of contemporary culture,
evidenced by morons who accuse you of using language
with big words.   dang.   

there is a film called idiocracy written by mike
judge.  but it's supposed to be "just a movie".

being there- 




--- aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:

> Ditto,
> 
> That about sums it up for me...
> 
> 
> 
> aLEKs
> 
> 
> On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:53 PM, Graham Miller wrote:
> 
> > i'm fine with the politics.  inseparable from
> music. absolutely. yadda 
> > yadda. i totally agree. ditto for philosophy.
> >
> > my problem is just when the monthly socialist or
> deleuze rant is 
> > considered more valid - more topical - to the
> microsound list than 
> > someone posting a link to a microsound composition
> they just uploaded. 
> >  or some neat piece of software used to make
> microsound music.
> >
> > i mean geez.
> >
> > there's plenty of bandwidth for everyone. how's
> that for socialist?
> >
> > delete and repeat.
> >
> > g.
> >
> > p.s. leffe brun how i love thee.
> >
> > On 26-Sep-06, at 10:13 PM, Jason Hollis wrote:
> >
> >> Oh, I enjoy talking politics.
> >> I do it several times a day most days, actually.
> >>
> >> In politcal forums.
> >>
> >> You, as list-lord, obviously make the final call
> as to enforcing off- 
> >> or on-topicness.
> >> I'm just expressing how I feel on the matter.
> >>
> >> Or is that now verboten?
> >> At this rate it wouldn't surprise me.
> >>
> >> ~ !J!
> >> http://www.endif.org
> >> http://www.crunchpod.com
> >> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Cascone" 
> >> <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> >> To: "microsound_list" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:46 PM
> >> Subject: [microsound] take it elsewhere? I don't
> think so...
> >>
> >>
> >>> Jason -- why don't you just tough it up, sit
> back and enjoy the 
> >>> discussion?
> >>> kinda like tofu, even though it might taste
> funny, talking about  
> >>> politics is actually good for you...
> >>> or if these sorts of things really rile you --
> unsub and start your  
> >>> own list...
> >>> and also, please don't proffer censorship on
> this forum -- you can  
> >>> take *that* elsewhere thank you
> >>> el hefe
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
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> >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >>> For additional commands, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >>> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
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> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> 
> 
>
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> 


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Take it offlist. The myspace thread afforded an opportunity for list members & musicians to learn a bit more about each other and their music. New geo-political movements have little to do with microsound imo, so it's not a matter of 'not reading the thread' but the topic not being applicable to the list.

In other news, I'm really enjoying Raphael Toral's new lp. He's moved on to making his own hardware I think.

Peter

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 13:33:20 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] take it elsewhere? I don't think so...
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Ditto,

That about sums it up for me...



aLEKs


On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:53 PM, Graham Miller wrote:

> i'm fine with the politics.  inseparable from music. absolutely. yadda 
> yadda. i totally agree. ditto for philosophy.
>
> my problem is just when the monthly socialist or deleuze rant is 
> considered more valid - more topical - to the microsound list than 
> someone posting a link to a microsound composition they just uploaded. 
>  or some neat piece of software used to make microsound music.
>
> i mean geez.
>
> there's plenty of bandwidth for everyone. how's that for socialist?
>
> delete and repeat.
>
> g.
>
> p.s. leffe brun how i love thee.
>
> On 26-Sep-06, at 10:13 PM, Jason Hollis wrote:
>
>> Oh, I enjoy talking politics.
>> I do it several times a day most days, actually.
>>
>> In politcal forums.
>>
>> You, as list-lord, obviously make the final call as to enforcing off- 
>> or on-topicness.
>> I'm just expressing how I feel on the matter.
>>
>> Or is that now verboten?
>> At this rate it wouldn't surprise me.
>>
>> ~ !J!
>> http://www.endif.org
>> http://www.crunchpod.com
>> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Cascone" 
>> <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>> To: "microsound_list" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:46 PM
>> Subject: [microsound] take it elsewhere? I don't think so...
>>
>>
>>> Jason -- why don't you just tough it up, sit back and enjoy the 
>>> discussion?
>>> kinda like tofu, even though it might taste funny, talking about  
>>> politics is actually good for you...
>>> or if these sorts of things really rile you -- unsub and start your  
>>> own list...
>>> and also, please don't proffer censorship on this forum -- you can  
>>> take *that* elsewhere thank you
>>> el hefe
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 08:49:43 2006
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mel ducasse <xxx_xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
>Hi,
>
>Does anyone have any suggestions/reading lists for books and 
>articles which deal specifically with the gestures and 'vocabulary' 
>of electroacoustic music? I'm not so interested in text which deal 
>with software processes; I'd like to find something that looks at 
>composition techniques which were developed before computers, 
>techniques which seem (to me)to have become a fairly standard set of 
>gestures.
>
>Thanks

Going back to the "sources" there are (for the francophones)  the 
publications of  Pierre Schaeffer  ie "Solfege de l'objet sonore" and 
"Traité des objets musicaux" among others. Theorists and composers 
associated with or influenced by the GRM may also have relevant 
material about. Most of them seem to speak and write in French 
though. Hmmm

For the non-French speakers/readers (as well as the Trevor Wishart 
Books which have already been mentioned) a number of articles may 
suit (ie Denis Smalley's "Spectromorphology and Structuring 
processes" which is arguably an Anglicized distillation of the 
Schaefferian concepts.  You would probably also encounter  relevant 
articles in the journal "Organized Sound" which is a Cambridge 
publication.

No doubt there is a whole lot more out there...

S.

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 08:22:14 2006
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On Tue, 2006-09-26 at 18:09 -0700, Xdugef wrote:
> Chuck looks very interesting.. http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/

SuperCollider is the other obvious thing to try.

I've made an awful lot of music with Perl but am pretty sick of it.
I've realised that it's better to use a language made for music.  Perl
is great for (for example) string processing but it's not always the
case that you want to treat music like a string.  ChucK and
SuperCollider are made with music in mind so are much better suited.

Also many of the people behind Perl are complete religious nutcases.
For example in a recent talk (state of the onion 10) Larry Wall railed
against family planning.

At the moment I'm exploring using a language called Haskell98.  It's a
very pure language, and easy to expand by making new operators and so
on, so I'm hoping to make a language in it that is tailored for making
the music I want to make.

> The main reason I abandoned Csound back in the day is because I was
> trying to mainly work with samples and I could not figure out how to
> avoid loud annoying clicks.

I don't know about csound but I guess you would need to make sure the
samples start and end at 0 by adding a small volume envelope to the
start and end.

> Also since I am avoiding being a laptop performer (no offense to anyone
> who is..simply my preference) I don't really care if my perl script is
> live or not. In some perverse way I like that it is anything but
> realtime.. it's an interesting limitation especially since I am
> performing live more than ever.

Fair enough but interactive/live programming is not just a way of
performing, it's also a way of developing.  If you can modify a program
while it's running you can hear the results immediately, and so get a
tight action/reaction feedback loop that might aide creativity.  But
yes, totally down to personal preference.  In ChucK you do edit those
scripts live (they call it on-the-fly programming over there).

> I have enough time into my Perl script that I will of course move
> forward and try to finish it's second manifestation and will probably
> proceed to add the wav capabilities.

Good luck!

> Pros of chuck are: It's free, It appears very capable, It's available
> on all the major platforms, appears relatively easy.

Also has a good community behind it.  The same with SuperCollider and
PD.  Free software always has a great buzz around, makes finding answers
to questions very easy...

alex



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On Tue, 2006-09-26 at 18:09 -0700, Xdugef wrote:
> Chuck looks very interesting.. http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/

SuperCollider is the other obvious thing to try.

I've made an awful lot of music with Perl but am pretty sick of it.
I've realised that it's better to use a language made for music.  Perl
is great for (for example) string processing but it's not always the
case that you want to treat music like a string.  ChucK and
SuperCollider are made with music in mind so are much better suited.

Also many of the people behind Perl are complete religious nutcases.
For example in a recent talk (state of the onion 10) Larry Wall railed
against family planning.

At the moment I'm exploring using a language called Haskell98.  It's a
very pure language, and easy to expand by making new operators and so
on, so I'm hoping to make a language in it that is tailored for making
the music I want to make.

> The main reason I abandoned Csound back in the day is because I was
> trying to mainly work with samples and I could not figure out how to
> avoid loud annoying clicks.

I don't know about csound but I guess you would need to make sure the
samples start and end at 0 by adding a small volume envelope to the
start and end.

> Also since I am avoiding being a laptop performer (no offense to anyone
> who is..simply my preference) I don't really care if my perl script is
> live or not. In some perverse way I like that it is anything but
> realtime.. it's an interesting limitation especially since I am
> performing live more than ever.

Fair enough but interactive/live programming is not just a way of
performing, it's also a way of developing.  If you can modify a program
while it's running you can hear the results immediately, and so get a
tight action/reaction feedback loop that might aide creativity.  But
yes, totally down to personal preference.  In ChucK you do edit those
scripts live (they call it on-the-fly programming over there).

> I have enough time into my Perl script that I will of course move
> forward and try to finish it's second manifestation and will probably
> proceed to add the wav capabilities.

Good luck!

> Pros of chuck are: It's free, It appears very capable, It's available
> on all the major platforms, appears relatively easy.

Also has a good community behind it.  The same with SuperCollider and
PD.  Free software always has a great buzz around, makes finding answers
to questions very easy...

alex



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 08:11:37 2006
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From: xxxxxxx@xxx.xx (Peter Plessas)
Subject: Re: [microsound] How to... compose electroacoustic music
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Hi,

both books by Trevor Wishart "Audible Design" and "On Sonic Art" may be
a starting point. They focus on transformation of (recorded) sound
mainly, and focus a lot on what you might call "gesture" in
electroacoustic composition.

regards,

Peter

* mel ducasse <xxx_xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx> [2006-09-27 09:22]:
> Hi,
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions/reading lists for books and articles 
> which deal specifically with the gestures and 'vocabulary' of 
> electroacoustic music? I'm not so interested in text which deal with 
> software processes; I'd like to find something that looks at 
> composition techniques which were developed before computers, 
> techniques which seem (to me)to have become a fairly standard set of 
> gestures.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> 

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 07:22:37 2006
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Hi,

Does anyone have any suggestions/reading lists for books and articles 
which deal specifically with the gestures and 'vocabulary' of 
electroacoustic music? I'm not so interested in text which deal with 
software processes; I'd like to find something that looks at 
composition techniques which were developed before computers, 
techniques which seem (to me)to have become a fairly standard set of 
gestures.

Thanks





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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 04:48:21 2006
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 23:48:06 -0500
From: Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Take it elsewhere?
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Here here!  My thoughts exactly.  I'm in favor of paragraphs too, with
a one "ism" per paragraph maximum.

~Kyle

On 9/26/06, Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Or maybe Rebecca just isn't interested in paragraph long sentences rife with
> excessive (and heavily parentheses laden) mega-syllabic nonsense...
>
>
> ~ !J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com
> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen Hastings-King" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:14 PM
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Take it elsewhere?
>
>
> > see, rebecca, this:
> >
> >> "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in cultural
> >
> >> > production" list...
> >
> >
> >
> > is snarky.
> > if you are not interested in this kind of thing, then you dont have to
> > read
> > the thread.
> > it does not and would not operate to the exclusion of other matters being
> > discussed.
> > so the objection seems pointless.
> > and the solution for dealing with the objection is pretty simple.
> >
> > there is not reason to announce that you are not interested in such
> > matters
> > by patronizing those of us who might be----you know, folk who do not
> > understand themselves as being separated from the world around them and
> > who
> > wonder sometimes what the interactions are between what they do and how
> > they
> > do it (not that one can talk about this without bragging apparently) and
> > wider socio-political formations because these relations are neither
> > transparent nor obvious--or those who are not just interested in one thing
> > and who wonder about how to integrate different types of thinking or
> > doing.
> >
> >
> > stephen
> >
>
>
>
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>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 04:16:23 2006
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My solution .. about a hundred pounds of delays and various noise
makers including a circuit bent CD player.

I mix it up though.. I did a battery only performance recently with
only an amp and a heathkit tube based sine wave generator.

One of my other reasons for making the Perl script was that I was
trying to build a automated audio switcher and I could not find
components that did not switch so fast that they created clicks between
the input audio signals. So with the  script I can control fade up/down
the signals on a sample based level.. I still need to spend some time
working on the hardware version.

BTW all the vactrols I ever tried had decay times that were way too
slow.

Adrian

--- Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> Sounds interesting.
> (I too have chosen to forego the laptop in favor of other means of
> live 
> performance. )
> Describe your solution, if you would. =]
> 
> ~ !J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com
> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
> 
> 
> 
> > Also since I am avoiding being a laptop performer (no offense to
> anyone
> > who is..simply my preference) I don't really care if my perl script
> is
> > live or not. In some perverse way I like that it is anything but
> > realtime.. it's an interesting limitation especially since I am
> > performing live more than ever.
> 
> 
> 
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 03:15:39 2006
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thanks for info doug

i guess that rules me out for Ph.d there - i barely made in through  
grade 11 math:) science, technology i love, but without the math i'm  
condemned to the pop sci section of those nice bookstores where the  
covers feel really expensive and smooth.

i did a masters in ethnomusicology in york in toronto. they have Ph.d  
programs there too. i quite liked it. they are open minded to new  
kinds of music, electronic, experimental, academic, electo-acoustic  
and otherwise. but it is pretty much musicology. i really would have  
like to have learned more techie stuff while i was there, but the one  
grad course that i did take called 'electronic music composition,'  
well, the prof never showed up to a single class. classy, i know.  
michael coglan to name names. i was pissed, especially considering  
how much those courses cost.

but that said, i have nothing but good things to say about rob bowman  
who runs the show there. the nicest guy you'll ever meet and is a  
walking encyclopedia of all things pop music. with over 35,000  
records in his personal collection, i should hope so. best of all, he  
one the most passionate, friendly and enthusiastic teachers i have  
ever had.

so that's my experience in a nutshell. pun intended:)

all the best,

g.


On 25-Sep-06, at 7:56 PM, doug van nort wrote:

> hi,
>
> i am currently a late-stage phd candidate in McGill music tech and  
> so know a thing
> or two about the place....
>
> in short, i feel it is a strong program that focuses on a  
> scientific/engineering approach to
> the intersection of music and technology (i.e. you need a decent  
> math/sci background to
> be considered for the grad programs).  it might be for you if you  
> want to do scientific research
> in the following areas:
>
> -analysis/synthesis and spectral processing of sound
> -physical modeling of sound, esp. using a waveguide approach
> -control/controller/sensor/gesture analysis based work
> -music perception/cognition
> -music information retrieval
>
> if you mean the undergrad program, it is more a mixture of theory  
> (e.g. dsp) and music/media practice.
> For the major you need to be admitted to the music school, for the  
> minor (i believe) you simply need to be
> admitted by music tech.
>
> you can ask me more off-list if you'd like to know more details.
>
> good luck
>
> doug
>
>
> On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:18 PM, t p wrote:
>
>> Any thoughts / suggestions / reviews of the music technology  
>> program offered at McGill University in Montreal?
>>
>> I'm giving serious thought to attending there within the following  
>> year, and would greatly appreciate any info shared. :-)
>>
>> thank you kindly!
>>
>>
>>
>>                  
>> ---------------------------------
>> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and  
>> 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.
>
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 02:54:22 2006
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i'm fine with the politics.  inseparable from music. absolutely.  
yadda yadda. i totally agree. ditto for philosophy.

my problem is just when the monthly socialist or deleuze rant is  
considered more valid - more topical - to the microsound list than  
someone posting a link to a microsound composition they just  
uploaded.  or some neat piece of software used to make microsound music.

i mean geez.

there's plenty of bandwidth for everyone. how's that for socialist?

delete and repeat.

g.

p.s. leffe brun how i love thee.

On 26-Sep-06, at 10:13 PM, Jason Hollis wrote:

> Oh, I enjoy talking politics.
> I do it several times a day most days, actually.
>
> In politcal forums.
>
> You, as list-lord, obviously make the final call as to enforcing  
> off- or on-topicness.
> I'm just expressing how I feel on the matter.
>
> Or is that now verboten?
> At this rate it wouldn't surprise me.
>
> ~ !J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com
> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kim Cascone"  
> <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: "microsound_list" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:46 PM
> Subject: [microsound] take it elsewhere? I don't think so...
>
>
>> Jason -- why don't you just tough it up, sit back and enjoy the  
>> discussion?
>> kinda like tofu, even though it might taste funny, talking about   
>> politics is actually good for you...
>> or if these sorts of things really rile you -- unsub and start  
>> your  own list...
>> and also, please don't proffer censorship on this forum -- you  
>> can  take *that* elsewhere thank you
>> el hefe
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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 FILETIME=[D1364F90:01C6E1DC]

seems to be so, suddenly.
---Original Message Follows----
From: Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
Reply-To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] our microsound list
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 22:25:12 -0400

don't you mean 'your' microsound list?

On 26-Sep-06, at 8:52 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

>>It's offtopic because this is our microsound list, not our
>>"let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in  cultural
>>production" list...
>
>it's actually NOT off topic because the microsound list is actually  a 
>'let's discuss topics and issues pertaining to aesthetics and  philosophy, 
>not about trainspotting software and artists' list
>which I started with Andy and Sean in 1999
>no brag, just fact



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 02:25:34 2006
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don't you mean 'your' microsound list?

On 26-Sep-06, at 8:52 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

>> It's offtopic because this is our microsound list, not our
>> "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in  
>> cultural
>> production" list...
>
> it's actually NOT off topic because the microsound list is actually  
> a 'let's discuss topics and issues pertaining to aesthetics and  
> philosophy, not about trainspotting software and artists' list
> which I started with Andy and Sean in 1999
> no brag, just fact
>
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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 02:32:20 2006
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Sounds interesting.
(I too have chosen to forego the laptop in favor of other means of live 
performance. )
Describe your solution, if you would. =]

~ !J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com
http://www.thirdwavecollective.com



> Also since I am avoiding being a laptop performer (no offense to anyone
> who is..simply my preference) I don't really care if my perl script is
> live or not. In some perverse way I like that it is anything but
> realtime.. it's an interesting limitation especially since I am
> performing live more than ever.



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I'm not confused by Chuck's timing process.. I could just as easily
write something similar in Perl ..

while ($now < $later) { $now++;}

I just thought that was funny..

I have investigated PD as well.. I would proabbaly try it again before
paying for MAX but getting under the hood does seem alot more daunting
than it's interface would  allow you to think.

Adrian

--- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I'm not any amazing programmer, but ChucK was very easy to get
> started
> in; there are a LOT of examples. You should be able to understand
> what
> you need, simply by modifying one of the included scripts. The key to
> Chuck is indeed the timing part, which isn't as confusing as you
> thing
> if you read the examples and the manual... "now" is a chuck keyword,
> but "later" in the example, would be a user defined variable, say 1
> second, so after one second, (now < later) would be false and the
> loop
> would end.
> 
> You don't have to process realtime with chuck, and I'm assuming
> offline processing would be much faster with chuck than with Perl.
> 
> I use Pure Data a lot now, which is the open source version of Max.
> However, the learning curve was STEEP, steeper than a normal
> programming language, in my opinion. Took about a year I guess,
> before
> the paradigm really seemed natural for doing programming type tasks
> and not just hooking up audio streams.
> 
> ~David
> 
> On 9/26/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > >Have you considered ChucK? It might be very well suited to what
> you
> > >are doing...
> > >~David
> >
> >
> > Chuck looks very interesting.. http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/
> >
> > The main reason I abandoned Csound back in the day is because I was
> > trying to mainly work with samples and I could not figure out how
> to
> > avoid loud annoying clicks.
> >
> > In my more recent efforts one goal was to avoid any kind of
> learning
> > curve although by this point in time Chuck looks pretty straight
> > forward to me.
> >
> > Although some of the code seems to impose some philosophical
> > challenges..
> >
> > "while( now < later )"
> >
> > What the f...??? time is just a loop.. time is just a loop.. etc
> etc
> > etc
> >
> >
> > My script at this point is extremely portable assuming your sound
> input
> > is in text file format ..hehe
> >
> > Also since I am avoiding being a laptop performer (no offense to
> anyone
> > who is..simply my preference) I don't really care if my perl script
> is
> > live or not. In some perverse way I like that it is anything but
> > realtime.. it's an interesting limitation especially since I am
> > performing live more than ever.
> >
> > I have enough time into my Perl script that I will of course move
> > forward and try to finish it's second manifestation and will
> probably
> > proceed to add the wav capabilities.
> >
> > Pros of chuck are: It's free, It appears very capable, It's
> available
> > on all the major platforms, appears relatively easy.
> >
> > I have toyed with the idea of getting back into MAX but now I may
> have
> > too.. thanks
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
> 
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> 
> 


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 02:29:37 2006
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From: Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] take it elsewhere? I don't think so...
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Oh, I enjoy talking politics.
I do it several times a day most days, actually.

In politcal forums.

You, as list-lord, obviously make the final call as to enforcing off- or 
on-topicness.
I'm just expressing how I feel on the matter.

Or is that now verboten?
At this rate it wouldn't surprise me.

~ !J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com
http://www.thirdwavecollective.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kim Cascone" <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound_list" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 7:46 PM
Subject: [microsound] take it elsewhere? I don't think so...


> Jason -- why don't you just tough it up, sit back and enjoy the 
> discussion?
> kinda like tofu, even though it might taste funny, talking about  politics 
> is actually good for you...
> or if these sorts of things really rile you -- unsub and start your  own 
> list...
> and also, please don't proffer censorship on this forum -- you can  take 
> *that* elsewhere thank you
> el hefe
>
>
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> 



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 02:07:11 2006
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Or maybe Rebecca just isn't interested in paragraph long sentences rife with 
excessive (and heavily parentheses laden) mega-syllabic nonsense...


~ !J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com
http://www.thirdwavecollective.com



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Hastings-King" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] Take it elsewhere?


> see, rebecca, this:
>
>> "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in cultural
>
>> > production" list...
>
>
>
> is snarky.
> if you are not interested in this kind of thing, then you dont have to 
> read
> the thread.
> it does not and would not operate to the exclusion of other matters being
> discussed.
> so the objection seems pointless.
> and the solution for dealing with the objection is pretty simple.
>
> there is not reason to announce that you are not interested in such 
> matters
> by patronizing those of us who might be----you know, folk who do not
> understand themselves as being separated from the world around them and 
> who
> wonder sometimes what the interactions are between what they do and how 
> they
> do it (not that one can talk about this without bragging apparently) and
> wider socio-political formations because these relations are neither
> transparent nor obvious--or those who are not just interested in one thing
> and who wonder about how to integrate different types of thinking or 
> doing.
>
>
> stephen
> 



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 01:56:35 2006
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hi

On 9/26/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Although some of the code seems to impose some philosophical
> challenges..

yes. but all language is like that.

> "while( now < later )"
> What the f...??? time is just a loop.. time is just a loop.. etc etc
> etc

that's how you program a [while] loop.
also, don't limit your conception of time. time can be very flexible in music.

chuck is fun. made some music with it without even trying too hard:
http://or8.net/~johns/music/mj.mp3

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 01:42:30 2006
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Hi,

I'm not any amazing programmer, but ChucK was very easy to get started
in; there are a LOT of examples. You should be able to understand what
you need, simply by modifying one of the included scripts. The key to
Chuck is indeed the timing part, which isn't as confusing as you thing
if you read the examples and the manual... "now" is a chuck keyword,
but "later" in the example, would be a user defined variable, say 1
second, so after one second, (now < later) would be false and the loop
would end.

You don't have to process realtime with chuck, and I'm assuming
offline processing would be much faster with chuck than with Perl.

I use Pure Data a lot now, which is the open source version of Max.
However, the learning curve was STEEP, steeper than a normal
programming language, in my opinion. Took about a year I guess, before
the paradigm really seemed natural for doing programming type tasks
and not just hooking up audio streams.

~David

On 9/26/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >Have you considered ChucK? It might be very well suited to what you
> >are doing...
> >~David
>
>
> Chuck looks very interesting.. http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/
>
> The main reason I abandoned Csound back in the day is because I was
> trying to mainly work with samples and I could not figure out how to
> avoid loud annoying clicks.
>
> In my more recent efforts one goal was to avoid any kind of learning
> curve although by this point in time Chuck looks pretty straight
> forward to me.
>
> Although some of the code seems to impose some philosophical
> challenges..
>
> "while( now < later )"
>
> What the f...??? time is just a loop.. time is just a loop.. etc etc
> etc
>
>
> My script at this point is extremely portable assuming your sound input
> is in text file format ..hehe
>
> Also since I am avoiding being a laptop performer (no offense to anyone
> who is..simply my preference) I don't really care if my perl script is
> live or not. In some perverse way I like that it is anything but
> realtime.. it's an interesting limitation especially since I am
> performing live more than ever.
>
> I have enough time into my Perl script that I will of course move
> forward and try to finish it's second manifestation and will probably
> proceed to add the wav capabilities.
>
> Pros of chuck are: It's free, It appears very capable, It's available
> on all the major platforms, appears relatively easy.
>
> I have toyed with the idea of getting back into MAX but now I may have
> too.. thanks
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>

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 FILETIME=[803F9470:01C6E1D2]

well, gee, I guess we should bend the rules because your ire is up. uh, huh.

Today's Quotation:
"I don't care where I sit, as long as I get fed." Calvin Trillin
xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx

----Original Message Follows----
From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Reply-To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: microsound_list <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] our microsound list
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 17:52:34 -0700

>It's offtopic because this is our microsound list, not our
>"let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in cultural
>production" list...

it's actually NOT off topic because the microsound list is actually a  
'let's discuss topics and issues pertaining to aesthetics and  philosophy, 
not about trainspotting software and artists' list
which I started with Andy and Sean in 1999
no brag, just fact

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 01:15:18 2006
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Hmm.. I would neve rhave guessed that ;-)

From the homepage..

".microsound is an unmediated mailing list oriented toward discussion
of the styles of digital and post-digital music promulgated by the
proliferation and widespread adoption of digital signal processing
(dsp) tools. 

..microsound is not a "genre" mailing list, since this proliferation has
occurred largely without regard for stylistic boundary. instead,
..microsound presents itself as a forum for the discussion and
exploration of a more general "digital aesthetic" manifesting across a
wide variety of styles and disciplines -- from academic computer music
to post-industrial noise to experimental ambient and post-techno. 
"

I guess one could translate style into philosophy but some of the
threads in question don't seem to ever stay on track of connecting
these philosophies to music. 

Maybe I missed the point but as an example how does socialism relate to
a style of music? <- see I'm making this appropriately topical. ;-)

Adrian

--- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> > It's offtopic because this is our microsound list, not our
> > "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in
> cultural
> > production" list...
> 
> it's actually NOT off topic because the microsound list is actually a
>  
> 'let's discuss topics and issues pertaining to aesthetics and  
> philosophy, not about trainspotting software and artists' list
> which I started with Andy and Sean in 1999
> no brag, just fact
> 
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> 


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 01:09:23 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Chuck
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>Have you considered ChucK? It might be very well suited to what you
>are doing...
>~David


Chuck looks very interesting.. http://chuck.cs.princeton.edu/

The main reason I abandoned Csound back in the day is because I was
trying to mainly work with samples and I could not figure out how to
avoid loud annoying clicks.

In my more recent efforts one goal was to avoid any kind of learning
curve although by this point in time Chuck looks pretty straight
forward to me.

Although some of the code seems to impose some philosophical
challenges..

"while( now < later )" 

What the f...??? time is just a loop.. time is just a loop.. etc etc
etc


My script at this point is extremely portable assuming your sound input
is in text file format ..hehe

Also since I am avoiding being a laptop performer (no offense to anyone
who is..simply my preference) I don't really care if my perl script is
live or not. In some perverse way I like that it is anything but
realtime.. it's an interesting limitation especially since I am
performing live more than ever.

I have enough time into my Perl script that I will of course move
forward and try to finish it's second manifestation and will probably
proceed to add the wav capabilities.

Pros of chuck are: It's free, It appears very capable, It's available
on all the major platforms, appears relatively easy.

I have toyed with the idea of getting back into MAX but now I may have
too.. thanks

Adrian



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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 00:52:57 2006
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> It's offtopic because this is our microsound list, not our
> "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in cultural
> production" list...

it's actually NOT off topic because the microsound list is actually a  
'let's discuss topics and issues pertaining to aesthetics and  
philosophy, not about trainspotting software and artists' list
which I started with Andy and Sean in 1999
no brag, just fact

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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 00:47:23 2006
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Jason -- why don't you just tough it up, sit back and enjoy the  
discussion?
kinda like tofu, even though it might taste funny, talking about  
politics is actually good for you...
or if these sorts of things really rile you -- unsub and start your  
own list...
and also, please don't proffer censorship on this forum -- you can  
take *that* elsewhere thank you
el hefe


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From ???@??? Wed Sep 27 00:22:44 2006
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Subject: [microsound] One more Cage story
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One more story from John Cage:


At the New School once I was substituting
for Henry Cowell, teaching a class
in Oriental music. I had told
him I didn’t know anything about the subject.
He said, “That’s all
right. Just go where the
records are. Take one out.
Play it and then discuss it
with the class.” Well, I took
out the first record. It was
an LP of a Buddhist service.
It began with a short microtonal chant with
sliding tones, then soon settled
into a single loud reiterated percussive beat.
This noise continued
relentlessly for about fifteen minutes
with no perceptible variation.
A lady got up and screamed, and
then yelled, “Take it off.
I can’t bear it any longer.”
I took it off. A man
in the class then said angrily,
“Why’d you take it off?
I was just getting interested.”


Many other Cage stories here:

http://www.lcdf.org/indeterminacy/index.cgi


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--Boundary_(ID_ntxAUC8QG606/rGhmHIfHg)
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Can we take scissors to this thread? Make sound, make noise...... Snip,  
snip, snip.

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i really didnt care about myspace.
i was interested for a while, then i began to follow my own advice and
stopped following the thread.


frankly, i am not interested in getting into an argument about arguments, so
that wraps up my involvement with this matter.
..


On 9/26/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Given that hardly anyone wants to talk about sound on this list then
> what the hell.. but where were you when people were up in arms about
> people posting their myspace links???
>
> To recap people may or may not object to the submatter that is offtopic
> but that is trumped by the fact that it may or may not generate large
> amounts of mail and people may or may not wish to get digests because
> they they cannot sort messages by thread.
>
> Anyway anybody want to talk about making sound with Perl??
>
> Adrian
>
> --- Stephen Hastings-King <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> > see, rebecca, this:
> >
> > > "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in
> > cultural
> >
> > > > production" list...
> >
> >
> >
> > is snarky.
> > if you are not interested in this kind of thing, then you dont have
> > to read
> > the thread.
> > it does not and would not operate to the exclusion of other matters
> > being
> > discussed.
> > so the objection seems pointless.
> > and the solution for dealing with the objection is pretty simple.
> >
> > there is not reason to announce that you are not interested in such
> > matters
> > by patronizing those of us who might be----you know, folk who do not
> > understand themselves as being separated from the world around them
> > and who
> > wonder sometimes what the interactions are between what they do and
> > how they
> > do it (not that one can talk about this without bragging apparently)
> > and
> > wider socio-political formations because these relations are neither
> > transparent nor obvious--or those who are not just interested in one
> > thing
> > and who wonder about how to integrate different types of thinking or
> > doing.
> >
> >
> > stephen
> >
>
>
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--Boundary_(ID_V+uXy3Qe9oTIhk4Hr6Gg3Q)--

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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Making sound with Perl- Was:Take it elsewhere?
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I've written generative MIDI files with Python - never Perl though.

Have you made sound with Perl? How did you do it, and why Perl?

~David

On 9/26/06, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

>
> Anyway anybody want to talk about making sound with Perl??
>
> Adrian
>

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From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 23:24:09 2006
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Given that hardly anyone wants to talk about sound on this list then
what the hell.. but where were you when people were up in arms about
people posting their myspace links??? 

To recap people may or may not object to the submatter that is offtopic
but that is trumped by the fact that it may or may not generate large
amounts of mail and people may or may not wish to get digests because
they they cannot sort messages by thread.

Anyway anybody want to talk about making sound with Perl??

Adrian

--- Stephen Hastings-King <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> see, rebecca, this:
> 
> > "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in
> cultural
> 
> > > production" list...
> 
> 
> 
> is snarky.
> if you are not interested in this kind of thing, then you dont have
> to read
> the thread.
> it does not and would not operate to the exclusion of other matters
> being
> discussed.
> so the objection seems pointless.
> and the solution for dealing with the objection is pretty simple.
> 
> there is not reason to announce that you are not interested in such
> matters
> by patronizing those of us who might be----you know, folk who do not
> understand themselves as being separated from the world around them
> and who
> wonder sometimes what the interactions are between what they do and
> how they
> do it (not that one can talk about this without bragging apparently)
> and
> wider socio-political formations because these relations are neither
> transparent nor obvious--or those who are not just interested in one
> thing
> and who wonder about how to integrate different types of thinking or
> doing.
> 
> 
> stephen
> 


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From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 23:14:42 2006
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see, rebecca, this:

> "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in cultural

> > production" list...



is snarky.
if you are not interested in this kind of thing, then you dont have to read
the thread.
it does not and would not operate to the exclusion of other matters being
discussed.
so the objection seems pointless.
and the solution for dealing with the objection is pretty simple.

there is not reason to announce that you are not interested in such matters
by patronizing those of us who might be----you know, folk who do not
understand themselves as being separated from the world around them and who
wonder sometimes what the interactions are between what they do and how they
do it (not that one can talk about this without bragging apparently) and
wider socio-political formations because these relations are neither
transparent nor obvious--or those who are not just interested in one thing
and who wonder about how to integrate different types of thinking or doing.


stephen
--Boundary_(ID_qYZxtfFQpuf91EjHGgpZtg)--

From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 22:43:34 2006
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Yeah, i'm sick of all the ism-ists.

~Kyle

On 9/26/06, rebecca salame <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> It's offtopic because this is our microsound list, not our
> "let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in cultural
> production" list... I'm sure we can find a large number of those, for when
> we're so inclined.
>
> Today's Quotation:
> "I used to be easy going. Now I'm just easy." Mr.M, after ten shots of
> tequila.
> xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Stephen Hastings-King" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> for what it's worth, i see no reason to do anything of the sort.
> i do not see how you can make anything like a compelling argument that the
> relationship between cultural production and the contexts that shape it is
> somehow "off topic" on a list made up largely of folk who engage in cultural
> production...
>
>
>
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>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 22:32:13 2006
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 FILETIME=[8B8D6030:01C6E1BB]

It's offtopic because this is our microsound list, not our
"let's all brag and sound off because we're all so engaged in cultural 
production" list... I'm sure we can find a large number of those, for when 
we're so inclined.

Today's Quotation:
"I used to be easy going. Now I'm just easy." Mr.M, after ten shots of 
tequila.
xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Stephen Hastings-King" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
for what it's worth, i see no reason to do anything of the sort.
i do not see how you can make anything like a compelling argument that the
relationship between cultural production and the contexts that shape it is
somehow "off topic" on a list made up largely of folk who engage in cultural
production...



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for what it's worth, i see no reason to do anything of the sort.
i do not see how you can make anything like a compelling argument that the
relationship between cultural production and the contexts that shape it is
somehow "off topic" on a list made up largely of folk who engage in cultural
production.

as for the last thread on this topic--maybe it will function as an object
lesson and would result in a more coherent and less needlessly snarky
discussion this time.
if people disagree about how to characterise the contexts.....then so what?
they disagree......disagreement can be constructive even....it is possible
to maintain civility across disagreement...if that breaks down, the problem
is not the disagreement but how folk choose to comport themselves in the
face of it.
that was the problem in the last thread, not the subject matter.



On 9/26/06, Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Lovely discussion, really.
> Much more sanity than the last completely off topic geopolitical thread.
>
> But given that it is totally off topic,
> and given the ludicrous mudfest that the last one became,
> can we maybe nix this one?
>
> ~ !J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com
> http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "bryan garcia" <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Revitalization
>
>
> > can we explore, for the sake of context, what other
> > dynamics might be born of other global political
> > systems ?
> >
> > i'm thinking socialism, communism,  agrarianism,
> > utopianism, fascism - etc.   what could those systems
> > offer that dont get us bogged down into some other
> > negative dynamic.
> >
> >
> > also i wonder if there are any positive dynamics
> > resulting of the global capitalistic economic system ?
> > perhaps this system can be tweaked to arrange the
> > types of outcomes we prefer.  ones instead of war and
> > fanaticism. can capitalism's inherent tendency of
> > competition be tweaked to a less harmfull version ?
> > examples of profit sharing companies, and co-op
> > ownership of properties(equity) are progressive forms
> > of this same capitialistic economy.
> >
> > i would be interested in what people imagine can
> > happen under alternative global political systems ?
> > i.e.(nazism ?)
> >
> > and if those systems can function any better than
> > global capitalism has.
> >
> > theoritcally,
> >
> > b.g.
> >
> >
> > --- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >> The tendency to activate deterritorializing forces
> >> of progress that
> >> sweep away the old forms, on the one hand, and to
> >> activate intense
> >> reterritorializations, such as violent
> >> fundamentalisms and
> >> nationalisms, is itself a dynamic that is internally
> >> generated by
> >> global capitalism. The reterritorializations and are
> >> not a form of
> >> resistance to modernization, but are part of the
> >> same dynamic.
> >> Furthermore, this dynamic is not the result of some
> >> ahistorical,
> >> eternal law but rather is a tendency of the global
> >> political-economic
> >> system in its current form. Different
> >> political-economic systems would
> >> generate different dynamics.
> >>
> >> ~David
> >>
> >> On 9/26/06, { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > A maintaining dynamic provides stability, while a
> >> > modernizing dynamic forces change. We tend to be
> >> satisfied
> >> > with a view of the world as a theatre of conflict
> >> between
> >> > stability and change. Collecting a congeries of
> >> phenomena
> >> > under the rubric of modernization, we project a
> >> future that
> >> > will be purified in a certain direction. With only
> >> the
> >> > craven desire for stability to overcome, the
> >> victory of
> >> > modernization seems assured, and the world must
> >> progress
> >> > toward the mechanized, the artificial, the
> >> commercial, the
> >> > secular, the individual, and the international.
> >> There is,
> >> > however, an oppositional force of self-conscious
> >> resistance
> >> > on behalf of the bodily, the natural, the
> >> creative, the
> >> > sacred, the collective, and the local. This
> >> countervailing
> >> > force is underestimated because we have not yet
> >> learned, as
> >> > we have with modernization, to gather its
> >> disparate signs
> >> > under one label. Oppositional actions do not
> >> connect
> >> > directly; they align independently in negative
> >> response to
> >> > modernization, the force also called, depending
> >> upon
> >> > context, progress, development, secularization,
> >> > industrialization, westernization, or colonialism.
> >> The goal
> >> > is not maintenance;  the orientation is
> >> progressive, but the
> >> > dynamic is recursive. The mind scans the past to
> >> imagine
> >> > the future.  Consider the popularity of hobbies
> >> involving
> >> > handicraft, the concern for environmental
> >> conservation and
> >> > historic preservation, the profusion of civic
> >> festivals, the
> >> > resurgence of ethnic identity, the escalation of
> >> nativism,
> >> > and nationalism, the institution of reactionary
> >> values in
> >> > politics and education, the convergence of
> >> alternative
> >> > ideology and spiritual yearning in religious
> >> revival, the
> >> > new age cults, in Christianity and Judaism, in
> >> Buddhism,
> >> > Hinduism, and Islam. In detail it is too much to
> >> encompass:
> >> > The Mahabharata in ninety-three installments on
> >> Indian
> >> > television, mosques destroyed in Bosnia and built
> >> in
> >> > Afghanistan, powpows in Oklahoma, martial arts in
> >> Japan, new
> >> > music in Colombia, glass painting in Poland and
> >> Romania,
> >> > rosemaling in Norway and Wisconsin, political
> >> order in Iran,
> >> > rebellion in Chechnya, separatism in Quebec,
> >> fundamentalism
> >> > in Christianity, the Mao cult in China, Kwanzaa in
> >> > Philadelphia, the Eid parade in Dhaka city,
> >> Saraswati Puja
> >> > at Jagannath Hall... But take it all together,
> >> name it
> >> > revitalization, and it is a power to balance
> >> modernization.
> >> >
> >> > brad brace sound:
> >> > http://69.64.229.114:8000
> >> > http://bbrace.net/undisclosed.html
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> >> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> For additional commands, e-mail:
> >> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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--Boundary_(ID_mnrFSCkgSMBwlafcdongsA)--

From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 21:54:39 2006
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 16:34:09 -0500
From: Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] Take it elsewhere?
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Lovely discussion, really. 
Much more sanity than the last completely off topic geopolitical thread. 

But given that it is totally off topic, 
and given the ludicrous mudfest that the last one became, 
can we maybe nix this one?    

~ !J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com 
http://www.thirdwavecollective.com
 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "bryan garcia" <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] Revitalization


> can we explore, for the sake of context, what other
> dynamics might be born of other global political
> systems ? 
> 
> i'm thinking socialism, communism,  agrarianism,
> utopianism, fascism - etc.   what could those systems
> offer that dont get us bogged down into some other
> negative dynamic.   
> 
> 
> also i wonder if there are any positive dynamics
> resulting of the global capitalistic economic system ?
> perhaps this system can be tweaked to arrange the
> types of outcomes we prefer.  ones instead of war and
> fanaticism. can capitalism's inherent tendency of
> competition be tweaked to a less harmfull version ?
> examples of profit sharing companies, and co-op
> ownership of properties(equity) are progressive forms
> of this same capitialistic economy.   
> 
> i would be interested in what people imagine can
> happen under alternative global political systems ?
> i.e.(nazism ?)
> 
> and if those systems can function any better than
> global capitalism has.   
> 
> theoritcally,
> 
> b.g. 
> 
> 
> --- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> 
>> The tendency to activate deterritorializing forces
>> of progress that
>> sweep away the old forms, on the one hand, and to
>> activate intense
>> reterritorializations, such as violent
>> fundamentalisms and
>> nationalisms, is itself a dynamic that is internally
>> generated by
>> global capitalism. The reterritorializations and are
>> not a form of
>> resistance to modernization, but are part of the
>> same dynamic.
>> Furthermore, this dynamic is not the result of some
>> ahistorical,
>> eternal law but rather is a tendency of the global
>> political-economic
>> system in its current form. Different
>> political-economic systems would
>> generate different dynamics.
>> 
>> ~David
>> 
>> On 9/26/06, { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > A maintaining dynamic provides stability, while a
>> > modernizing dynamic forces change. We tend to be
>> satisfied
>> > with a view of the world as a theatre of conflict
>> between
>> > stability and change. Collecting a congeries of
>> phenomena
>> > under the rubric of modernization, we project a
>> future that
>> > will be purified in a certain direction. With only
>> the
>> > craven desire for stability to overcome, the
>> victory of
>> > modernization seems assured, and the world must
>> progress
>> > toward the mechanized, the artificial, the
>> commercial, the
>> > secular, the individual, and the international.
>> There is,
>> > however, an oppositional force of self-conscious
>> resistance
>> > on behalf of the bodily, the natural, the
>> creative, the
>> > sacred, the collective, and the local. This
>> countervailing
>> > force is underestimated because we have not yet
>> learned, as
>> > we have with modernization, to gather its
>> disparate signs
>> > under one label. Oppositional actions do not
>> connect
>> > directly; they align independently in negative
>> response to
>> > modernization, the force also called, depending
>> upon
>> > context, progress, development, secularization,
>> > industrialization, westernization, or colonialism.
>> The goal
>> > is not maintenance;  the orientation is
>> progressive, but the
>> > dynamic is recursive. The mind scans the past to
>> imagine
>> > the future.  Consider the popularity of hobbies
>> involving
>> > handicraft, the concern for environmental
>> conservation and
>> > historic preservation, the profusion of civic
>> festivals, the
>> > resurgence of ethnic identity, the escalation of
>> nativism,
>> > and nationalism, the institution of reactionary
>> values in
>> > politics and education, the convergence of
>> alternative
>> > ideology and spiritual yearning in religious
>> revival, the
>> > new age cults, in Christianity and Judaism, in
>> Buddhism,
>> > Hinduism, and Islam. In detail it is too much to
>> encompass:
>> > The Mahabharata in ninety-three installments on
>> Indian
>> > television, mosques destroyed in Bosnia and built
>> in
>> > Afghanistan, powpows in Oklahoma, martial arts in
>> Japan, new
>> > music in Colombia, glass painting in Poland and
>> Romania,
>> > rosemaling in Norway and Wisconsin, political
>> order in Iran,
>> > rebellion in Chechnya, separatism in Quebec,
>> fundamentalism
>> > in Christianity, the Mao cult in China, Kwanzaa in
>> > Philadelphia, the Eid parade in Dhaka city,
>> Saraswati Puja
>> > at Jagannath Hall... But take it all together,
>> name it
>> > revitalization, and it is a power to balance
>> modernization.
>> >
>> > brad brace sound:
>> > http://69.64.229.114:8000
>> > http://bbrace.net/undisclosed.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> > For additional commands, e-mail:
>> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> > website: http://www.microsound.org
>> >
>> >
>> 
>>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
>> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail:
>> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
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> website: http://www.microsound.org
> 
>


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From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 21:19:51 2006
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Revitalization
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can we explore, for the sake of context, what other
dynamics might be born of other global political
systems ? 

i'm thinking socialism, communism,  agrarianism,
utopianism, fascism - etc.   what could those systems
offer that dont get us bogged down into some other
negative dynamic.   


also i wonder if there are any positive dynamics
resulting of the global capitalistic economic system ?
 perhaps this system can be tweaked to arrange the
types of outcomes we prefer.  ones instead of war and
fanaticism. can capitalism's inherent tendency of
competition be tweaked to a less harmfull version ?
examples of profit sharing companies, and co-op
ownership of properties(equity) are progressive forms
of this same capitialistic economy.   

i would be interested in what people imagine can
happen under alternative global political systems ?
i.e.(nazism ?)

and if those systems can function any better than
global capitalism has.   

theoritcally,

b.g. 


--- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> The tendency to activate deterritorializing forces
> of progress that
> sweep away the old forms, on the one hand, and to
> activate intense
> reterritorializations, such as violent
> fundamentalisms and
> nationalisms, is itself a dynamic that is internally
> generated by
> global capitalism. The reterritorializations and are
> not a form of
> resistance to modernization, but are part of the
> same dynamic.
> Furthermore, this dynamic is not the result of some
> ahistorical,
> eternal law but rather is a tendency of the global
> political-economic
> system in its current form. Different
> political-economic systems would
> generate different dynamics.
> 
> ~David
> 
> On 9/26/06, { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > A maintaining dynamic provides stability, while a
> > modernizing dynamic forces change. We tend to be
> satisfied
> > with a view of the world as a theatre of conflict
> between
> > stability and change. Collecting a congeries of
> phenomena
> > under the rubric of modernization, we project a
> future that
> > will be purified in a certain direction. With only
> the
> > craven desire for stability to overcome, the
> victory of
> > modernization seems assured, and the world must
> progress
> > toward the mechanized, the artificial, the
> commercial, the
> > secular, the individual, and the international.
> There is,
> > however, an oppositional force of self-conscious
> resistance
> > on behalf of the bodily, the natural, the
> creative, the
> > sacred, the collective, and the local. This
> countervailing
> > force is underestimated because we have not yet
> learned, as
> > we have with modernization, to gather its
> disparate signs
> > under one label. Oppositional actions do not
> connect
> > directly; they align independently in negative
> response to
> > modernization, the force also called, depending
> upon
> > context, progress, development, secularization,
> > industrialization, westernization, or colonialism.
> The goal
> > is not maintenance;  the orientation is
> progressive, but the
> > dynamic is recursive. The mind scans the past to
> imagine
> > the future.  Consider the popularity of hobbies
> involving
> > handicraft, the concern for environmental
> conservation and
> > historic preservation, the profusion of civic
> festivals, the
> > resurgence of ethnic identity, the escalation of
> nativism,
> > and nationalism, the institution of reactionary
> values in
> > politics and education, the convergence of
> alternative
> > ideology and spiritual yearning in religious
> revival, the
> > new age cults, in Christianity and Judaism, in
> Buddhism,
> > Hinduism, and Islam. In detail it is too much to
> encompass:
> > The Mahabharata in ninety-three installments on
> Indian
> > television, mosques destroyed in Bosnia and built
> in
> > Afghanistan, powpows in Oklahoma, martial arts in
> Japan, new
> > music in Colombia, glass painting in Poland and
> Romania,
> > rosemaling in Norway and Wisconsin, political
> order in Iran,
> > rebellion in Chechnya, separatism in Quebec,
> fundamentalism
> > in Christianity, the Mao cult in China, Kwanzaa in
> > Philadelphia, the Eid parade in Dhaka city,
> Saraswati Puja
> > at Jagannath Hall... But take it all together,
> name it
> > revitalization, and it is a power to balance
> modernization.
> >
> > brad brace sound:
> > http://69.64.229.114:8000
> > http://bbrace.net/undisclosed.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
> 
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
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From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 18:13:35 2006
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From: Thomas Yager-Madden <xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Revitalization
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On 9/26/06, { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> A maintaining dynamic provides stability, while a
> modernizing dynamic forces change. We tend to be satisfied
> with a view of the world as a theatre of conflict between
> stability and change. Collecting a congeries of phenomena
> under the rubric of modernization, we project a future that
> will be purified in a certain direction. ...

what

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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Revitalization
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The tendency to activate deterritorializing forces of progress that
sweep away the old forms, on the one hand, and to activate intense
reterritorializations, such as violent fundamentalisms and
nationalisms, is itself a dynamic that is internally generated by
global capitalism. The reterritorializations and are not a form of
resistance to modernization, but are part of the same dynamic.
Furthermore, this dynamic is not the result of some ahistorical,
eternal law but rather is a tendency of the global political-economic
system in its current form. Different political-economic systems would
generate different dynamics.

~David

On 9/26/06, { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> A maintaining dynamic provides stability, while a
> modernizing dynamic forces change. We tend to be satisfied
> with a view of the world as a theatre of conflict between
> stability and change. Collecting a congeries of phenomena
> under the rubric of modernization, we project a future that
> will be purified in a certain direction. With only the
> craven desire for stability to overcome, the victory of
> modernization seems assured, and the world must progress
> toward the mechanized, the artificial, the commercial, the
> secular, the individual, and the international. There is,
> however, an oppositional force of self-conscious resistance
> on behalf of the bodily, the natural, the creative, the
> sacred, the collective, and the local. This countervailing
> force is underestimated because we have not yet learned, as
> we have with modernization, to gather its disparate signs
> under one label. Oppositional actions do not connect
> directly; they align independently in negative response to
> modernization, the force also called, depending upon
> context, progress, development, secularization,
> industrialization, westernization, or colonialism. The goal
> is not maintenance;  the orientation is progressive, but the
> dynamic is recursive. The mind scans the past to imagine
> the future.  Consider the popularity of hobbies involving
> handicraft, the concern for environmental conservation and
> historic preservation, the profusion of civic festivals, the
> resurgence of ethnic identity, the escalation of nativism,
> and nationalism, the institution of reactionary values in
> politics and education, the convergence of alternative
> ideology and spiritual yearning in religious revival, the
> new age cults, in Christianity and Judaism, in Buddhism,
> Hinduism, and Islam. In detail it is too much to encompass:
> The Mahabharata in ninety-three installments on Indian
> television, mosques destroyed in Bosnia and built in
> Afghanistan, powpows in Oklahoma, martial arts in Japan, new
> music in Colombia, glass painting in Poland and Romania,
> rosemaling in Norway and Wisconsin, political order in Iran,
> rebellion in Chechnya, separatism in Quebec, fundamentalism
> in Christianity, the Mao cult in China, Kwanzaa in
> Philadelphia, the Eid parade in Dhaka city, Saraswati Puja
> at Jagannath Hall... But take it all together, name it
> revitalization, and it is a power to balance modernization.
>
> brad brace sound:
> http://69.64.229.114:8000
> http://bbrace.net/undisclosed.html
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>

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From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 14:49:52 2006
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From: { brad brace } <xxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] Revitalization
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A maintaining dynamic provides stability, while a
modernizing dynamic forces change. We tend to be satisfied
with a view of the world as a theatre of conflict between
stability and change. Collecting a congeries of phenomena
under the rubric of modernization, we project a future that
will be purified in a certain direction. With only the
craven desire for stability to overcome, the victory of
modernization seems assured, and the world must progress
toward the mechanized, the artificial, the commercial, the
secular, the individual, and the international. There is,
however, an oppositional force of self-conscious resistance
on behalf of the bodily, the natural, the creative, the
sacred, the collective, and the local. This countervailing
force is underestimated because we have not yet learned, as
we have with modernization, to gather its disparate signs
under one label. Oppositional actions do not connect
directly; they align independently in negative response to
modernization, the force also called, depending upon
context, progress, development, secularization,
industrialization, westernization, or colonialism. The goal
is not maintenance;  the orientation is progressive, but the
dynamic is recursive. The mind scans the past to imagine
the future.  Consider the popularity of hobbies involving
handicraft, the concern for environmental conservation and
historic preservation, the profusion of civic festivals, the
resurgence of ethnic identity, the escalation of nativism,
and nationalism, the institution of reactionary values in
politics and education, the convergence of alternative
ideology and spiritual yearning in religious revival, the
new age cults, in Christianity and Judaism, in Buddhism,
Hinduism, and Islam. In detail it is too much to encompass:
The Mahabharata in ninety-three installments on Indian
television, mosques destroyed in Bosnia and built in
Afghanistan, powpows in Oklahoma, martial arts in Japan, new
music in Colombia, glass painting in Poland and Romania,
rosemaling in Norway and Wisconsin, political order in Iran,
rebellion in Chechnya, separatism in Quebec, fundamentalism
in Christianity, the Mao cult in China, Kwanzaa in
Philadelphia, the Eid parade in Dhaka city, Saraswati Puja
at Jagannath Hall... But take it all together, name it
revitalization, and it is a power to balance modernization.

brad brace sound:
http://69.64.229.114:8000
http://bbrace.net/undisclosed.html



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From ???@??? Tue Sep 26 12:16:49 2006
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2006 15:16:13 +0300
From: gig_dept <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [microsound] Re: microsound Digest 20 Sep 2006 21:10:53 -0000 Issue
 1682
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tr
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 12:10 AM
Subject: microsound Digest 20 Sep 2006 21:10:53 -0000 Issue 1682


> microsound Digest 20 Sep 2006 21:10:53 -0000 Issue 1682
>
> Topics (messages 40215 through 40223):
>
> Re: degree programs in digital music?
> 40215 by: Graham Miller
> 40216 by: mcnafong.mnsi.net
>
> reminder
> 40217 by: Kim Cascone
>
> Windows version of IanniX released
> 40218 by: Cyrill
> 40219 by: discos invisibles
> 40220 by: Cyrill
> 40221 by: Cyrill
> 40222 by: Sune Smek
> 40223 by: wind.mikrokiko.de
>
> Administrivia:
>
> To subscribe to the digest, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>
> To unsubscribe from the digest, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>
> To post to the list, e-mail:
> xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:49:21 -0400
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
> Subject: Re: [microsound] degree programs in digital music?
> Message-Id: <xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
>
> not to be confused with york university in toronto which is still not
> aware that technology and music have anything to do with each other:)
>
> g.
>
> On 17-Sep-06, at 5:05 AM, Peter Worth wrote:
>
>> i just finished an MA in music technology at the University of York
>> (UK). The music research centre there is excellent:
>> http://music.york.ac.uk/mrc/
>>
>> On 16/09/06, Arielle Saiber <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> There are many academic programs in the US that offer advanced
>>> degrees
>>> in Digital/New Media Studies, but I would be interested in knowing of
>>> ones in the US and around the world (such as EGS) that are
>>> particularly
>>> strong in digital music.  I am neither a musician nor a music
>>> theorist,
>>> but I teach literature courses that incorporate electronic music,
>>> and am
>>> doing some writing on electronic music and genre theory.  I'd like to
>>> mention a few of these programs in my research.
>>>
>>> Thanks so much,
>>> Arielle Saiber
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 14:25:40 -0400
> To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> From: "xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx" <xxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [microsound] degree programs in digital music?
> Message-ID: <xxx-xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xxx>
>
> The University of Michigan has a "Performing Arts and Technology" degree
> that is under the umbrella of the=20
> School of Music here=2E Students also take courses in Screen Arts and
> Cultures - in particular Digital Media=20
> courses=2E There are a number of students who are working in Electronic 
> Mu=
> sic
> and Electro-acoustic=2E
>
> cheers
>
> Chris
>
> Original Message:
> -----------------
> From: Graham Miller xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eca
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 13:49:21 -0400
> To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eorg
> Subject: Re: [microsound] degree programs in digital music=3F
>
> not to be confused with york university in toronto which is still not =20
> aware that technology and music have anything to do with each other:)
>
> g=2E
>
> On 17-Sep-06, at 5:05 AM, Peter Worth wrote:
>
>> i just finished an MA in music technology at the University of York
>> (UK)=2E The music research centre there is excellent:
>> http://music=2Eyork=2Eac=2Euk/mrc/
>>
>> On 16/09/06, Arielle Saiber <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx=2Eedu> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello all,
>>>
>>> There are many academic programs in the US that offer advanced =20
>>> degrees
>>> in Digital/New Media Studies, but I would be interested in knowing of
>>> ones in the US and around the world (such as EGS) that are =20
>>> particularly
>>> strong in digital music=2E  I am neither a musician nor a music =20
>>> theorist,
>>> but I teach literature courses that incorporate electronic music, =20
>>> and am
>>> doing some writing on electronic music and genre theory=2E  I'd like to=
>
>>> mention a few of these programs in my research=2E
>>>
>>> Thanks so much,
>>> Arielle Saiber
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eorg
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eorg
>>> website: http://www=2Emicrosound=2Eorg
>>>
>>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eorg
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eorg
>> website: http://www=2Emicrosound=2Eorg
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eorg
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx=2Eorg
> website: http://www=2Emicrosound=2Eorg
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web=2Ecom/ =2E
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 17:30:44 -0700
> To: microsound_list <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: reminder
> Message-Id: <xxxxxxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx-xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>
> folks,
> a reminder: there is no cross-posting or announcements allowed on
> this main list...if you have something you want to promote please
> post it to the announcements list...see the microsound website for
> info on how to sub...
> thanks
> KIM
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 19:49:30 -0700 (PDT)
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Windows version of IanniX released
> Message-ID: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
>
> --0-1004931006-1158720570=:11534
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Hello
>
> This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> windows users.
>
> You can find it at:
> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
>
> Please report us any bug you may find...
>
> Yours,
> Cyrill.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great 
> rates starting at 1¢/min.
> --0-1004931006-1158720570=:11534--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:26:21 -0700
> To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: "discos invisibles" <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> Message-ID: <000a01c6dc6c$efd39f40$xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> I receive an error message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cyrill" <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
>
>> Hello
>>
>> This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
>> windows users.
>>
>> You can find it at:
>> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
>>
>> Please report us any bug you may find...
>>
>> Yours,
>> Cyrill.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
>> rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2006 21:34:55 -0700 (PDT)
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> Message-ID: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
>
> --0-2041192334-1158726895=:33513
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> OK, thanks for the bug report. I'll try to fix it asap.
>
> Meanwhile I think it should work if you install mingw, available from 
> sourceforge at: 
> http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/mingw/MinGW-5.0.3.exe?download
>
> Cyrill
>
> discos invisibles <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: I receive an error 
> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cyrill"
> To: "microsound"
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
>
>> Hello
>>
>> This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
>> windows users.
>>
>> You can find it at:
>> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
>>
>> Please report us any bug you may find...
>>
>> Yours,
>> Cyrill.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
>> rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com
> --0-2041192334-1158726895=:33513--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:22:13 -0700 (PDT)
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> Message-ID: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxxxx.xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxxx.xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
>
> --0-2064075479-1158740533=:81462
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
>
> Hello
> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows 
> pcs and i cannot really test it...
>
> Cyrill.
>
> discos invisibles <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: I receive an error 
> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cyrill"
> To: "microsound"
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
>
>> Hello
>>
>> This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
>> windows users.
>>
>> You can find it at:
>> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
>>
>> Please report us any bug you may find...
>>
>> Yours,
>> Cyrill.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
>> rates starting at 1¢/min.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> --0-2064075479-1158740533=:81462--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: "Sune Smek" <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> Message-ID: <xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxxxx.xxx>
>
> ------=_Part_114353_27032641.1158743568387
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> Content-Disposition: inline
>
> I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
>
> On 9/20/06, Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hello
>> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
>> pcs and i cannot really test it...
>>
>> Cyrill.
>>
>> discos invisibles <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: I receive an error
>> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
>> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cyrill"
>> To: "microsound"
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
>> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
>>
>>
>> > Hello
>> >
>> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
>> > windows users.
>> >
>> > You can find it at:
>> >
>> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=3D174402&package_i=
> d=3D204701&release_id=3D448751
>> >
>> > Please report us any bug you may find...
>> >
>> > Yours,
>> > Cyrill.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------
>> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
>> > rates starting at 1=A2/min.
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
>>
>
> ------=_Part_114353_27032641.1158743568387--
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 13:03:32 +0200
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> From: xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx
> Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> Message-ID: <xx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxx-xxxxxxxxxx.xx-xxxxxx.xx>
>
> hi;
> just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> download it from
> http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
>
> j ,.
>
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
>>
>> On 9/20/06, Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello
>>> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
>>> pcs and i cannot really test it...
>>>
>>> Cyrill.
>>>
>>> discos invisibles <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: I receive an error
>>> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
>>> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Cyrill"
>>> To: "microsound"
>>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
>>> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
>>>
>>>
>>> > Hello
>>> >
>>> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
>>> > windows users.
>>> >
>>> > You can find it at:
>>> >
>>> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
>>> >
>>> > Please report us any bug you may find...
>>> >
>>> > Yours,
>>> > Cyrill.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------
>>> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
>>> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
>>>
>
> -- 
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of microsound Digest
> *********************************** 


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From ???@??? Mon Sep 25 23:56:54 2006
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:56:27 -0400
From: doug van nort <xxxx@xxxxx.xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] degree programs in digital music?
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hi,

i am currently a late-stage phd candidate in McGill music tech and so 
know a thing
or two about the place....

in short, i feel it is a strong program that focuses on a 
scientific/engineering approach to
the intersection of music and technology (i.e. you need a decent 
math/sci background to
be considered for the grad programs).  it might be for you if you want 
to do scientific research
in the following areas:

-analysis/synthesis and spectral processing of sound
-physical modeling of sound, esp. using a waveguide approach
-control/controller/sensor/gesture analysis based work
-music perception/cognition
-music information retrieval

if you mean the undergrad program, it is more a mixture of theory (e.g. 
dsp) and music/media practice.
For the major you need to be admitted to the music school, for the 
minor (i believe) you simply need to be
admitted by music tech.

you can ask me more off-list if you'd like to know more details.

good luck

doug


On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:18 PM, t p wrote:

> Any thoughts / suggestions / reviews of the music technology program 
> offered at McGill University in Montreal?
>
> I'm giving serious thought to attending there within the following 
> year, and would greatly appreciate any info shared. :-)
>
> thank you kindly!
>
>
>
>                  
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ 
> countries) for 2¢/min or less.

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From ???@??? Mon Sep 25 23:24:00 2006
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Bill Jarboe wrote:
> Oooh tell us a John Cage zen story (?)
>
> -b 


Music and mushrooms:
two words next to one another in many dictionaries.
Where did he write /The Three-Penny Opera?/
Now he’s buried below the grass at the
foot of High Tor.
Once the season changes
from summer to fall, given sufficient rain, or just the
mysterious dampness that’s in the earth, mushrooms grow there,
carrying on, I am sure, his business of working with sounds.
That we have no ears to hear the music
the spores shot off from basidia make
obliges us to busy ourselves microphonically.





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Oooh tell us a John Cage zen story (?)

                                              -b


On Sep 25, 2006, at 1:29 PM, Thomas Ashcraft wrote:

>
> I went to school at McGill in the early 1970s and graduated in 1975. I 
> remember spending many hours in the music library listening room in 
> the music school on Sherbrooke Street, under headphones listening to 
> vinyl records of John Cage zen stories, Stockhausen, Charles Ives, 
> folkways field recordings, Miles Davis, Ornette Coleman, on and on.  
> Sweet memories.  I also heard some interesting and challenging 
> concerts during those years there at McGill like low volumed Morton 
> Feldman pieces and other works. But I don't remember much 
> technological nor electronic music!
>
> Wish I could give you further info.  Good luck in any case.
>
> Tom


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From ???@??? Mon Sep 25 20:29:25 2006
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I went to school at McGill in the early 1970s and graduated in 1975. I 
remember spending many hours in the music library listening room in the 
music school on Sherbrooke Street, under headphones listening to vinyl 
records of John Cage zen stories, Stockhausen, Charles Ives, folkways 
field recordings, Miles Davis, Ornette Coleman, on and on.  Sweet 
memories.  I also heard some interesting and challenging concerts during 
those years there at McGill like low volumed Morton Feldman pieces and 
other works. But I don't remember much technological nor electronic music!

Wish I could give you further info.  Good luck in any case.

Tom

>
> On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:18 PM, t p wrote:
>
>> Any thoughts / suggestions / reviews of the music technology program 
>> offered at McGill University in Montreal?
>>
>> I'm giving serious thought to attending there within the following 
>> year, and would greatly appreciate any info shared. :-)
>>
>> thank you kindly!
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>


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From ???@??? Mon Sep 25 19:48:38 2006
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i finished my bachelor of music with honours in music technology at  
mcgill a couple of years ago, so i was very much involved with the  
music technology deptartment.  first off, mcgill is a great school  
and montreal an even better city.

when i was there they were still developing their program and in the  
process of hiring new faculty members.  but i believe they now have a  
very strong program.  depending on your interests, there's ichiro  
fujinaga for mir, philippe depalle for dsp, marcelo wanderley for  
gestural control, and gary scavone for audio synthesis.  there is  
also cirmmt, the centre for interdisciplinary research in music media  
and technology, and a great sound recording department.  they also  
recently built a new music building, though i'm not sure if the music  
tech dept has moved in yet.

i didn't stick around for the masters degree because i found the  
graduate workspace to be a bit cramped and tucked away in the back  
corner of the music building.  however, i'm sure things have changed  
now that they have the new building.


On Sep 24, 2006, at 7:18 PM, t p wrote:

> Any thoughts / suggestions / reviews of the music technology  
> program offered at McGill University in Montreal?
>
> I'm giving serious thought to attending there within the following  
> year, and would greatly appreciate any info shared. :-)
>
> thank you kindly!
>
>
>
>                  
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and  
> 30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.


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Connexion Bizarre
Greetings,

The *Connexion Bizarre (dot) net* website was updated on 2006-09-25 with a new webcast, new reviews, and a few recommended links.

Reviewed this week were rian English "Beyond Words", C/A/T "ATF", Coreline "Please Keep Moving Forward".

This week's webcast, features "Unspeakable terrors from beyond space and time" with music selection by DJ Fork Surgery and DJ Istabmyhead and "Parachutes are for pussies!" with music selection by M..

Also this week, we announce the winners of the CD "Materia Oscura" give-away competition (see below for details).

Don't hesitate to contact us with questions, constructive comments, suggestions and even potential requests for the online radio, etc.

Best regards,

the Connexion Bizarre crew

(*www.connexionbizarre.net*)
We had four copies of the compilation "Materia Oscura" to give away, courtesy of the Sistinas record label. This label sampler compilation contains tracks by Vuxnut, Broken Fabiola, The Operative, Hazing Ritual and others.

The winners were: Derek W. (uk), Nidia S. (pt), Boris B. (be) and David H. (uk)/.
*Connexion Bizarre events status:*
*"Dungeon Pop"* @ "Justine" bar 
/30/09, saturday, 10.00pm-4.00am; Rua de Cedofeita, 516, Porto./
M. & João present a selection of fetish soundtracks, dungeon music, dark ambient, angstpop and ritual music.
*"Bodypop"* @ "Era Uma Vez No Porto" bar 
/14/10, saturday, 10.30pm-3.00am; Rua do Passeio Alegre, 550, Porto./
Menu: synthpop, electropop, idm-pop, porn-pop, bodypop!
*Connexion Bizarre radio show @ Radio Zero*

The Connexion Bizarre radio show can be streamed every Friday at 23:00 GMT and Saturday at 19:00 GMT from Radio Zero. Music selection follows each week's second part of our webcast.
Webcast
*Part 1 - *Click here to stream or right-click to download**
("Unspeakable terrors from beyond space and time" with music selection by DJ Fork Surgery and DJ Istabmyhead)

*Mad EP - /Hz*/

[/Eating movies/ - Ad Noiseam]

*Cacheflowe - /Phunkdaphonies*/

[Automate everything/ - Nobot Media] 

*Antipop Consortium - /Laundry*/

[/Tragic Epilogue/ - 75 Ark Records]

*Amon Tobin - /Four Ton Mantis*/

[/Supermodified/ - Ninja Tune] 

*Dälek - /Images of .44 Casings*/

[/Negro Necro Nekros/ - Gern Blandsten]

*Venetian Snares vs Bong-ra - /Felbomlasztott Mentokocsi (Bong-ra remix)*/ 

[/4 adaptations of rossz csillag alatt szÜletett/ - Planet Mu]

*Squarepusher - /Iambic 9 Poetry*/

[/Ultravisitor/ - Warp Records]

*Dead Hollywood Stars - /Mojo*/ 

[/Gone West/ - Mad Monkey Records]

*cEvin Key - /cccc4*/

[/tHe gHost oF eAch rOom/ - Metropolis Records]

*Kattoo - /6*/ 

[/Megrim/ - Hymen Records]
*Part 2 - *Click here to stream or right-click to download**

("Parachutes are for pussies!" with music selection by M.)

*Terretron - /Hunger/*

[/Wither/ - The Pandemic] 

*ESA - /Satan Is Real/*

[/Devotion, Denial, and Discipline/ - Hive Records]  

*Ybrid - /Ogdoas/*

[/Khaos De Viscera/ - Ark-Aïk]

*Coreline - /Point Of Transience (3)/*

[/Please Keep Moving Forward/ - InfeKted Sound]  

*Prometheus Burning - /When The Past Becomes Present/*

[/Beyond Repair/ - Hive Records]

*Hazing Ritual - /Evil Concentrate/*

[/V/A - Materia Oscura/ - Sistinas]  

*Lewsor vs. Chrysalide - /Noxious Circus/*

[/V/A - Noxious Art Will Never Die!!!/ - Audiotrauma]  

*Endif - /Antilife/*

[/Meta/ - Crunch Pod]

*Oil 10 - /X Fleet/*

[/Beyond/ - Funk Welten]

*Cheerleader69 vs. Sonic Area - /We'll Never Die/*

[/V/A - Noxious Art Will Never Die!!!/ - Audiotrauma]  

*Postmorder[N]XS - /TelephoneMute/*

[/Somnambulizing EP/ - self-released] 

*Bardoseneticcube & Igor V. Petrov - /Songong/*

[/The Perpetuum Mobile Space Vehicle/ - Mechanoise Labs]
*Listen to the Webcast*
Reviews
*Brian English - /Beyond Words/*

In analogy to the album title, this is one of those purely enjoyable albums, though the words don't come to explain why it's so enjoyable. It is truly 'beyond words'. 

*Read more*
*C/A/T - /ATF/*

C/A/T, may set out to make "Music to Piss You Off", but with "ATF", they only succeed in making perhaps the strongest Power Noise release of the year, if not one of the strongest hard electronic releases, period.

*Read more*
*Coreline - /Please Keep Moving Forward/*

While it may not be everyone's cup of tea, this album will surely have adepts among those that favour intense unrelenting aural pummellings on the dancefloor, who will find this release to be 'just what the doctor ordered'.

*Read more*
Recently added links
U-Clic, electronic musicians

Monochrome Vision, record label

Industrialmusic.ru, Russian Industrial music portal

I.M.A.N., organization and multi-media Art festival.
*Latest recommended links*
"How Hitler Became a Dictator" In other news, those who don't learn from History are doomed to repeat it. 

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"Debates & Controversies - the Doomsday Code", Channel 4 documentary proving once more that quite a few people are funny in the head and are in positions of power...

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Any thoughts / suggestions / reviews of the music technology program offered at McGill University in Montreal?

I'm giving serious thought to attending there within the following year, and would greatly appreciate any info shared. :-)

thank you kindly!



                 
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From: Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
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Hi
could you send me the xml file of your score so i can check this here?
cyrill

David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: Also, I have PD open ready to receive OSC, and I have some triggers in
the score. But the play button doesn't do anything. Is there some
missing step?

On 9/22/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> Hi
>
> could you please let me know if it works properly with the version i have just uploaded? As said previously, we don't have many windows machines, so it is not easy to check if it is compiled correctly...
>
> c
>
>
> David Powers  wrote: Thanks so much, the tutorial is great - it answered all my first
> questions. I did understand that it uses OSC. I look forward to
> getting that new winXP version and hooking it up to PD tomorrow.
> ~David
>
> On 9/22/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > Hi
> > there is a tutorial - well, only a draft, for the moment - here: http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/iannix/IanniX_tutorial.pdf?view=log
> >
> > the main thing to understand is that IanniX doesn't make sound by itself: it sends OSC packets which depend on your drawings. So you have to connect it with pd, Sc, Max, or Csound. any software able to receive OSC.
> >
> > Ah, and for the windows version: there was an important bug fixed earlier, (namely, big vs little endians) so please use the file i am going to upload tomorrow (still in beta version, sorry...) the current one will only send aberrant messages if you are on a machine with an Intel proc.
> >
> > cyrill
> >
> > David Powers  wrote: It works... now could you explain just a hint on how to test out the program?
> > ~David
> >
> > On 9/21/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
> > > but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
> > > It should work...
> > >
> > > yours,
> > >
> > > C
> > >
> > > Thaniel Lee  wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
> > > -t
> > >
> > > On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> > > > hi;
> > > > just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> > > > download it from
> > > > http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
> > > >
> > > > j ,.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hello
> > > > >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> > > > >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cyrill.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> > > > >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> > > > >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Cyrill"
> > > > >> To: "microsound"
> > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> > > > >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> > > > >> > windows users.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > You can find it at:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Yours,
> > > > >> > Cyrill.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> > > > >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
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> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
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> > > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
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> > >
> > >
> > > --
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> > > http://thanielarts.blogspot.com/
> > > http://blog.myspace.com/bridlewire
> > >
> > > so hows life
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From ???@??? Sat Sep 23 17:02:35 2006
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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
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Also, I have PD open ready to receive OSC, and I have some triggers in
the score. But the play button doesn't do anything. Is there some
missing step?

On 9/22/06, Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hi
>
> could you please let me know if it works properly with the version i have just uploaded? As said previously, we don't have many windows machines, so it is not easy to check if it is compiled correctly...
>
> c
>
>
> David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: Thanks so much, the tutorial is great - it answered all my first
> questions. I did understand that it uses OSC. I look forward to
> getting that new winXP version and hooking it up to PD tomorrow.
> ~David
>
> On 9/22/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > Hi
> > there is a tutorial - well, only a draft, for the moment - here: http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/iannix/IanniX_tutorial.pdf?view=log
> >
> > the main thing to understand is that IanniX doesn't make sound by itself: it sends OSC packets which depend on your drawings. So you have to connect it with pd, Sc, Max, or Csound. any software able to receive OSC.
> >
> > Ah, and for the windows version: there was an important bug fixed earlier, (namely, big vs little endians) so please use the file i am going to upload tomorrow (still in beta version, sorry...) the current one will only send aberrant messages if you are on a machine with an Intel proc.
> >
> > cyrill
> >
> > David Powers  wrote: It works... now could you explain just a hint on how to test out the program?
> > ~David
> >
> > On 9/21/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
> > > but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
> > > It should work...
> > >
> > > yours,
> > >
> > > C
> > >
> > > Thaniel Lee  wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
> > > -t
> > >
> > > On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> > > > hi;
> > > > just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> > > > download it from
> > > > http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
> > > >
> > > > j ,.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hello
> > > > >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> > > > >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cyrill.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> > > > >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> > > > >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Cyrill"
> > > > >> To: "microsound"
> > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> > > > >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> > > > >> > windows users.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > You can find it at:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Yours,
> > > > >> > Cyrill.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> > > > >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > website: http://www.microsound.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx
> > > http://thanielarts.blogspot.com/
> > > http://blog.myspace.com/bridlewire
> > >
> > > so hows life
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> > > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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> > >
> > >
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From ???@??? Sat Sep 23 16:55:57 2006
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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
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Hi, I'm trying to test this right now. So far, it seems like the
keyboard shortcuts don't actually do anything... I'll try with PD in a
few moments.

~David

On 9/22/06, Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hi
>
> could you please let me know if it works properly with the version i have just uploaded? As said previously, we don't have many windows machines, so it is not easy to check if it is compiled correctly...
>
> c
>
>
> David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: Thanks so much, the tutorial is great - it answered all my first
> questions. I did understand that it uses OSC. I look forward to
> getting that new winXP version and hooking it up to PD tomorrow.
> ~David
>
> On 9/22/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > Hi
> > there is a tutorial - well, only a draft, for the moment - here: http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/iannix/IanniX_tutorial.pdf?view=log
> >
> > the main thing to understand is that IanniX doesn't make sound by itself: it sends OSC packets which depend on your drawings. So you have to connect it with pd, Sc, Max, or Csound. any software able to receive OSC.
> >
> > Ah, and for the windows version: there was an important bug fixed earlier, (namely, big vs little endians) so please use the file i am going to upload tomorrow (still in beta version, sorry...) the current one will only send aberrant messages if you are on a machine with an Intel proc.
> >
> > cyrill
> >
> > David Powers  wrote: It works... now could you explain just a hint on how to test out the program?
> > ~David
> >
> > On 9/21/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > Hi
> > > i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
> > > but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
> > > It should work...
> > >
> > > yours,
> > >
> > > C
> > >
> > > Thaniel Lee  wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
> > > -t
> > >
> > > On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> > > > hi;
> > > > just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> > > > download it from
> > > > http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
> > > >
> > > > j ,.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> > > > >
> > > > > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Hello
> > > > >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> > > > >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Cyrill.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> > > > >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> > > > >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Cyrill"
> > > > >> To: "microsound"
> > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> > > > >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> > Hello
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> > > > >> > windows users.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > You can find it at:
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > Yours,
> > > > >> > Cyrill.
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> >
> > > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> > > > >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > > >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> > > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > > >
> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > > website: http://www.microsound.org
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx
> > > http://thanielarts.blogspot.com/
> > > http://blog.myspace.com/bridlewire
> > >
> > > so hows life
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > website: http://www.microsound.org
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------
> > > Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com
> > >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
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> >  Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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From: Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
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Hi 

could you please let me know if it works properly with the version i have just uploaded? As said previously, we don't have many windows machines, so it is not easy to check if it is compiled correctly...

c


David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: Thanks so much, the tutorial is great - it answered all my first
questions. I did understand that it uses OSC. I look forward to
getting that new winXP version and hooking it up to PD tomorrow.
~David

On 9/22/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> Hi
> there is a tutorial - well, only a draft, for the moment - here: http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/iannix/IanniX_tutorial.pdf?view=log
>
> the main thing to understand is that IanniX doesn't make sound by itself: it sends OSC packets which depend on your drawings. So you have to connect it with pd, Sc, Max, or Csound. any software able to receive OSC.
>
> Ah, and for the windows version: there was an important bug fixed earlier, (namely, big vs little endians) so please use the file i am going to upload tomorrow (still in beta version, sorry...) the current one will only send aberrant messages if you are on a machine with an Intel proc.
>
> cyrill
>
> David Powers  wrote: It works... now could you explain just a hint on how to test out the program?
> ~David
>
> On 9/21/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > Hi
> > i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
> > but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
> > It should work...
> >
> > yours,
> >
> > C
> >
> > Thaniel Lee  wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
> > -t
> >
> > On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> > > hi;
> > > just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> > > download it from
> > > http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
> > >
> > > j ,.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> > > >
> > > > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hello
> > > >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> > > >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> > > >>
> > > >> Cyrill.
> > > >>
> > > >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> > > >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> > > >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Cyrill"
> > > >> To: "microsound"
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> > > >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hello
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> > > >> > windows users.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > You can find it at:
> > > >> >
> > > >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Yours,
> > > >> > Cyrill.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> > > >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > website: http://www.microsound.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx
> > http://thanielarts.blogspot.com/
> > http://blog.myspace.com/bridlewire
> >
> > so hows life
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
>  Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
>

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From ???@??? Sat Sep 23 01:26:56 2006
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Thanks so much, the tutorial is great - it answered all my first
questions. I did understand that it uses OSC. I look forward to
getting that new winXP version and hooking it up to PD tomorrow.
~David

On 9/22/06, Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hi
> there is a tutorial - well, only a draft, for the moment - here: http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/iannix/IanniX_tutorial.pdf?view=log
>
> the main thing to understand is that IanniX doesn't make sound by itself: it sends OSC packets which depend on your drawings. So you have to connect it with pd, Sc, Max, or Csound. any software able to receive OSC.
>
> Ah, and for the windows version: there was an important bug fixed earlier, (namely, big vs little endians) so please use the file i am going to upload tomorrow (still in beta version, sorry...) the current one will only send aberrant messages if you are on a machine with an Intel proc.
>
> cyrill
>
> David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: It works... now could you explain just a hint on how to test out the program?
> ~David
>
> On 9/21/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > Hi
> > i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
> > but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
> > It should work...
> >
> > yours,
> >
> > C
> >
> > Thaniel Lee  wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
> > -t
> >
> > On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> > > hi;
> > > just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> > > download it from
> > > http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
> > >
> > > j ,.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
> > >
> > > > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> > > >
> > > > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> Hello
> > > >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> > > >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> > > >>
> > > >> Cyrill.
> > > >>
> > > >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> > > >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> > > >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> > > >>
> > > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > > >> From: "Cyrill"
> > > >> To: "microsound"
> > > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> > > >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hello
> > > >> >
> > > >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> > > >> > windows users.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > You can find it at:
> > > >> >
> > > >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Yours,
> > > >> > Cyrill.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > ---------------------------------
> > > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> > > >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >> ---------------------------------
> > > >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> > >
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > website: http://www.microsound.org
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx
> > http://thanielarts.blogspot.com/
> > http://blog.myspace.com/bridlewire
> >
> > so hows life
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com
> >
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>
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>
> ---------------------------------
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>  Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
>

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From ???@??? Sat Sep 23 01:09:54 2006
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From: Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
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Hi
there is a tutorial - well, only a draft, for the moment - here: http://svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/iannix/IanniX_tutorial.pdf?view=log

the main thing to understand is that IanniX doesn't make sound by itself: it sends OSC packets which depend on your drawings. So you have to connect it with pd, Sc, Max, or Csound. any software able to receive OSC.

Ah, and for the windows version: there was an important bug fixed earlier, (namely, big vs little endians) so please use the file i am going to upload tomorrow (still in beta version, sorry...) the current one will only send aberrant messages if you are on a machine with an Intel proc.

cyrill

David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: It works... now could you explain just a hint on how to test out the program?
~David

On 9/21/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> Hi
> i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
> but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
> It should work...
>
> yours,
>
> C
>
> Thaniel Lee  wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
> -t
>
> On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> > hi;
> > just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> > download it from
> > http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
> >
> > j ,.
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
> >
> > > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> > >
> > > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello
> > >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> > >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> > >>
> > >> Cyrill.
> > >>
> > >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> > >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> > >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Cyrill"
> > >> To: "microsound"
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> > >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Hello
> > >> >
> > >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> > >> > windows users.
> > >> >
> > >> > You can find it at:
> > >> >
> > >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> > >> >
> > >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> > >> >
> > >> > Yours,
> > >> > Cyrill.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ---------------------------------
> > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> > >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------
> > >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx
> http://thanielarts.blogspot.com/
> http://blog.myspace.com/bridlewire
>
> so hows life
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your email and more, right on the  new Yahoo.com
>

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From ???@??? Fri Sep 22 03:43:28 2006
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Please remove me from the list.

Regards,

DC


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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
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It works... now could you explain just a hint on how to test out the program?
~David

On 9/21/06, Cyrill <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hi
> i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
> but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
> It should work...
>
> yours,
>
> C
>
> Thaniel Lee <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
> -t
>
> On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> > hi;
> > just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> > download it from
> > http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
> >
> > j ,.
> >
> > On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
> >
> > > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> > >
> > > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hello
> > >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> > >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> > >>
> > >> Cyrill.
> > >>
> > >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> > >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> > >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> > >>
> > >> ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Cyrill"
> > >> To: "microsound"
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> > >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> > Hello
> > >> >
> > >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> > >> > windows users.
> > >> >
> > >> > You can find it at:
> > >> >
> > >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> > >> >
> > >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> > >> >
> > >> > Yours,
> > >> > Cyrill.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > ---------------------------------
> > >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> > >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> ---------------------------------
> > >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx
> http://thanielarts.blogspot.com/
> http://blog.myspace.com/bridlewire
>
> so hows life
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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>

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Hi
i am in no way an expert in windows systems, which i find a bit difficult (i come from linux)
but i think you can put it either in the directory of the executable, or in the sys32 file.
It should work...

yours,

C

Thaniel Lee <xxxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: after i download the dll....where do i put it
-t

On 9/20/06, xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx  wrote:
> hi;
> just copy the dll in the app-directory;
> download it from
> http://filezilla.cvs.sourceforge.net/filezilla/FileZilla3/data/mingwm10.dll?view=log
>
> j ,.
>
> On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 11:12:48 +0200, Sune Smek  wrote:
>
> > I just downloaded it and I receive the same error.
> >
> > On 9/20/06, Cyrill  wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello
> >> this bug should now be fixed. Let me know, as we don't have many windows
> >> pcs and i cannot really test it...
> >>
> >> Cyrill.
> >>
> >> discos invisibles  wrote: I receive an error
> >> message while installing 'unable to locate component'
> >> (mingwm10.dll was not found)
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cyrill"
> >> To: "microsound"
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2006 7:49 PM
> >> Subject: [microsound] Windows version of IanniX released
> >>
> >>
> >> > Hello
> >> >
> >> > This, to let you know that at last there is an .exe of IanniX for the
> >> > windows users.
> >> >
> >> > You can find it at:
> >> >
> >> https://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=174402&package_id=204701&release_id=448751
> >> >
> >> > Please report us any bug you may find...
> >> >
> >> > Yours,
> >> > Cyrill.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------------
> >> > Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls.  Great
> >> > rates starting at 1¢/min.
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------
> >> Stay in the know. Pulse on the new Yahoo.com.  Check it out.
> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>


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