RE: (idm) The Africa in Music

From Kelley Hackett
Sent Tue, Aug 24th 1999, 15:11

Andrei, 

My point is not to say well he or she did it first.  Rather, when U speak of
an influence, coupled with the notion of going to the root, then it becomes
as simple as going back to the oldest civilization(i.e., that civilization
where music emerged out of), and performing ones studies from there.   In my
estimation it all seems quite logical!  But I dont wanna get into a
discussion of the logic progression of things and all!

Still, your point has merit.  And we, as "intelligent" humans, have to be
the dumbest of all time!  In that, we dont learn from what went before us.
I, U, we cant make axiomatic statements and think they will hold for longer
the 50 years(its pushing it to say 100years).  Einstein, Pascal, Giddings,
Ross, whomever, their theories have been improved................throughout
time, which meant, that when they held it to be self-evident, actually it
was not!  Just a beginning discovery!

Still, I would imagine that if we studied some of the earlier forms of
music, we can find out more.  But by all means we should study ALL forms.  I
just agreed with Mr. Crusher, because if i was looking for the root of, say
music, the search, to me logically, would have to begin here.

No more List stuff, is all private now 

> -----Original Message-----
> From:        Drusca [SMTP:xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx]
> Sent:        Monday, August 23, 1999 6:56 PM
> To:        xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> Subject:        Re: (idm) The Africa in Music
> 
> Maybe you should go back and read some of the previous posts. The topic
> was
> the influence of African music on the Western "classical" musical world
> which
> started sometime in the very-late 1800s, not who did what first. What I
> was
> trying to prove is that western composers have been just as concerned with
> rhythm as they have with melody/harmony for hundreds of years. I'll be the
> first one to admit that the use of rhythm by composers from Central Europe
> during the Baroque, Classical & Romantic periods is pretty "square"
> compared
> to the rhythms employed in African & Asian music, but it's definitely been
> a
> concern otherwise they would have composed a bunch of drones. European
> composers tend to be more lyrical than percussive.
> 
> People have a tendency to think after hearing African or Latin music, etc.
> "Well, European music really doesn't pay attention to rhythm", but I think
> the truth is that those types of music put more emphasis on rhythm than
> melody therefore it's more noticeable. People don't notice the rhythms in
> a
> lot of classical music because equal emphasis is placed on melody AND
> rhythm.
> When you notice rhythm as in Stravinsky's Rite Of Spring it's because he's
> emphasizing rhythm over melody.
> 
> And my opinions are based on active listening not from reading a "history
> book", although that certainly doesn't hurt.
> 
> Whatever, this is getting kinda tedious.
> 
> Andrei
> 
> np: Varese - Live 3
>        ASKO Ensemble (ATTACCA)
> 
> Kelley Hackett wrote:
> 
> > Regardless of influence, African music has existed long before, and I
> > reiterate, LONG BEFORE the period in which U spoke of
> early..............
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Drusca [SMTP:xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 3:45 PM
> > > To:   xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > Subject:      Re: (idm) The Africa in Music
> > >
> > > ChairCrusher wrote:
> > >
> > > > Stravinsky was directly influenced by hearing African music in
> Paris.
> > >
> > > Actually, he was influenced by Russian folk music, which often uses
> odd
> > > time
> > > signatures, when he composed Petrouchka, Firebird and Rite Of Spring.
> He
> > > was
> > > later influenced by ragtime in pieces like Soldier's Tale. You might
> be
> > > thinking
> > > of Debussy hearing Gamelan in Paris.
> > >
> > > Andrei
> 
> > Perhaps U should read your history book, or get a new one, many African
> > civilizations were doing this long before the time U mention
> > Pal........LONG
> > BEFORE!
> >
> > Hk!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Drusca [SMTP:xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx]
> > > Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 1:02 AM
> > > To:   xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > > Subject:      Re: (idm) three things that piss me off
> > >
> > > ChairCrusher wrote:
> > >
> > > > That view of melody (or more generally harmonic progression) is the
> > > > cornerstone of western music.  It took Africa (and African
> Americans)
> > to
> > > > bring rhythm and drums up to where they are co-equal with harmony
> > > > in Western Music.
> > >
> > > I think rhythm & melody were on a equal level in Western music before
> the
> >
> > > introduction of African (or Asian) rhythms. There was a lot of
> rhythmic
> > > intricacy
> > > in medieval music (check out Machaut & the whole Ars Nova period) and
> > then
> > > of
> > > course much later Stravinsky did some amazing stuff. Schoenberg and
> > Webern
> > > were
> > > also very rhythmically sophisticated though in more subtle ways. Even
> > > listen to
> > > Beethoven's 5th, I definitely think the rhythmic development in that
> > piece
> > > is
> > > just as important as the melodic development. Even Brahms is famous
> for
> > > doing a
> > > lot of 3 against 2 stuff.
> > > I think what Africa did is introduce the west to different rhythmic
> > > patterns and
> > > "feels" and the emphasis of different beats (2 & 4 vs. 1 & 3).
> > >
> > > Andrei