From Brian Willoughby Sent Sun, Feb 3rd 2019, 01:07
From Brian Willoughby Sent Sun, Feb 3rd 2019, 01:07
Sounds clever, Stephen, but how do you prove that you didn=E2=80=99t = sell the synth? If you did sell the synth, you could then turn around = and claim that it was stolen, and I assume that all of those photos = would merely prove that you once owned the synth. Obviously, if you = reported on a person who purchased directly from you, then that person = could show a receipt with your signature showing that you actually sold = the synth to them, and the fraud would be spoiled. But, what if you sold = the synth to a third party who then sold the same synth to someone = you=E2=80=99re claiming is a thief? The accused could show a receipt = from someone, but could not prove whether you had sold it or lost it to = theft. If the third party were to cooperate, and show a receipt from = you, then the gig would be up. I imagine that eBay could potentially be a huge help here, since they = might have seller-to-buyer records for all or nearly all transactions = where a given piece of gear changed hands. Unfortunately, eBay is really = bad at helping victims of theft. Of course, they require a police report = and all kinds of proof that the item was actually stolen and not just = someone attempting fraud. However, with a police report and even the = original manufacturer willing to go on record that an item belonged to = me, eBay was simply unresponsive to repeated requests for help. Part of = the problem is that the victim cannot drive the process - it must be the = police officers who keep pestering eBay for progress, and local police = departments are not very motived to pursue property crimes until they = are solved. The thieves know how long the police leave an incident on = their active list, and simply wait it out until things have expired. I=E2=80=99m not suggesting that you would try to defraud someone, = Stephen, using your elaborate photo records of synth ownership, but = I=E2=80=99m thinking that laws are generally designed to avoid such = scams as could easily be dreamed up. I once found the fingerprints of = someone who had broken into my car to steal a stereo - and these = fingerprints were on the inside of the window where they couldn=E2=80=99t = have appear since I lock my car all the time - but because many days has = passed before I noticed the fingerprints, the police told me that they = could not legally place the criminal inside my car at the time of the = crime. It=E2=80=99s as if I might have voluntarily invited the criminal = for a ride in my car after they stole from me. But, in the eyes of the = law, the presence of fingerprints inside the vehicle were not enough = proof on their own that the person with those fingerprints had actually = broken into my car. Does anyone know the laws concerning theft? Someone mentioned that = anyone in possession of stolen property must give it up to the rightful = owner. But with the current marketplace where =E2=80=9Coriginal = owners=E2=80=9D regularly sell their gear, voluntarily, what exactly is = the burden of proof that the original owner is still the rightful owner? In addition, considering my difficulties within the same county but = across different city limits and police departments, how likely are = there property laws to be consistent across county borders, state = borders, or even internationally? Brian Willoughby On Jan 30, 2019, at 10:15 AM, skkatter <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: > Here's what I do whenever I buy something new. I take a photo ID of = myself, stick it on the synth, take a photo, then also take a photo of = the synth's serial with my photo ID in the shot.=20 >=20 > If anything gets stolen I can now prove it's mine. Keep all the photos = backed up on two hard drives and an internet cloud account. It also = makes for a great album to look at if you're as vain as I am. >=20 > -Stephen >=20 > On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 17:41, DJ Maytag <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> It=E2=80=99s a unique system, one that=E2=80=99s easily identifiable, = so I can confirm Ryan=E2=80=99s claim. I=E2=80=99ve got the original = system and can compare it to what the new owner has.=20 >> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 11:39 AM Ryan L <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: >>> I know a lot of people would like to keep anonymity in the synth = world who have larger systems. >>>=20 >>> But I just noticed someone on facebook posted pictures of a modular = system which I know for a fact is stolen. =20 >>>=20 >>> That system is worth a lot of money, and I'm sure it was gotten for = a "bargain price" as it "fell off the back of a truck" >>>=20 >>> Would it be wise now with some analogs being worth SO much money to = start a registry of owners? Perhaps private serials/etc. This way when = we buy a vintage we know that the owner is legit? It is such a small = community it might be easy to maintain that database, and also keep it = private. With a request..." is this the owner" and if yes...go... or = some SQL type thingie. (is SQL still a thing? lol) >>>=20 >>> I've gotten ripped off a few times before, and saw the guy try to = resell it, and with so many avenues to resell I'm sure it got resold = without me knowing. Before it was a tight knit community where everyone = kinda knew whose system was whose. =20 >>>=20 >>> I'm kind of thinking like how bike registries work in some = countries...a registry of serial #s so if you buy a used bike you can = check if your bike is stolen. Sucks to buy something stolen when you = have to give it back to the rightful owner and lose out on your $$$. =20 >>>=20 >>> Maybe I'm just being paranoid...but seeing a moog modular that I = know was stolen shown off in pictures by someone else...makes me very = very concerned. =20 >=20