From lwtcdi Sent Thu, Dec 25th 1997, 19:14
xxxxxx_xxxxxxxxx@xxxx.xxx wrote: > hi jif > > you wondered > > >>> > >>more "drill'n'bass" "fungle" whatever > > > >Oh God, let's hope not! > > > >>a better sub-genre description of "drill'n'bass" "fungle" ... > > > >I hope for a better genre altogether! :-) > could anyone back their statements up with arguments around here? just > wondering, you know lets have a *discussion* > jif > <<< > > er i think the point is that i like "fungle junk" and gb doesn't. No, on the contrary, I *love* some of it (Squarepusher, the RDJ album and a few others), I just think there's a disproportionate amount of crap around that should just never reach the shelves. I think if people are going to make this kind of stuff they should try and be original with it. IMO Squarepusher and Plug were the first people to really do drum and bass like this that is more experimental and not neccesarily dancefloor orientated and therefore have a some right to continue in their original style (although even with them they could mutate their sound a bit more between releases). Their music towers over most other 'drill and bass' types. Equally, IMO, RDJ did it totally his own way, and I would go as far to say that his latest music doesn't even fall into the drill and bass/fungle category. Everything else on the other hand seems to be substanard Squarepusher stuff with no little or no inventiveness, just some very weak sounding random drumming. I guess it's a sound I can only have so much of, that's all. > i think all we can learn about this is that variety is the spice ... etc. > but i must agree that its not the be all and end all of idm, whether its idm at > all is probably up for debate also. Yes, variety is the spice of life, which is why it just annoys me sometimes how the only real drum and bass talked about here is stuff by former IDM artists and some dark/tech-step stuff (Arcon 2, Ed Rush) put into an IDM context (Photek). Look at the poll for God's sake. In the drum and bass category we have the following nominees for Drum & Bass Album of the Year: Amon Tobin: Bricolage (NinjaTune) Photek: Modus Operandi (Science) Squarepusher: Burningn'n Tree (Warp) Squarepusher: Hard Normal Daddy (Warp) Now admittedly this year hasn't been great for drum and bass LPs, but lest we forget there has been V Classic, the Versatility comp on Independant Dealers, Prototype Years, Jonny L's Sawtooth, Adam F's Colours, Platinum Breakz II, Arcon 2, and even Roni Size's New Forms, any of which I would have liked to see listed above. What's the point having a drum and bass category if what is being made under the drum and bass banner is ignored outright... (no offence to to Mr. Hilker who has done an admirable job of collating votes etc and given us a lot to talk about concerning what IDM actually is these days). > i like the hybrids and mongrels that > rapid musical evolution throws up and would be disappointed if something as > contrary and controversial as "drill'n'bass" has been, doesn't show up in > the next 12-18 months. Exactly, so will I. But drill and bass is just a varient on drum and bass, which in itself is no longer new. I only stick with todays drum and bass crop because most of the fungle stuff is so weak. > i know this type of things infuriates purists, but then i'm not one. Me neither, far from it, which is why I would like widen the horizons of what we percieve as IDM to include such artists as Roni Size, DJ Suv, DJ Krust, DJ Die, Dillinja, Lemon D, Decoder, Optical, John B, Bill Riley, J-Majik, Hidden Agenda, Peshay, Mampi Swift, Andy C etc etc etc who produce music which is as challenging/innovative and rewarding as almost any other music discussed on this list... > i really don't see the point of an extended *discussion* on the relative > merits of "drill'n'bass", what will we learn, that some people groove to it Drill and bass is the type of drum and bass with *least* groove, I'd say... > and it leaves others cold. I *do* see the point of a discussion, not of the "I like fungle"/"I don't" nature but maybe we should be asking the question "why is fungle seen as superior to other types of drum and bass (on this list) which are being equally inventive but within a different structure?" Is the simple answer that it's just not acceptable here unless it's made by a couple of former IDM musicians and their mates (Squarepusher, RDJ, Mike P, Luke Vibert, Jega etc). Is this list really that shallow that it cannot move beyond these artists? Or is it something else? IDM is so fragmented these days that we don't know exactly what it encapsulates, but unless we make the effort to go beyond what IDM is on this list on a personal level, the current boundaries of IDM on this list as a whole will remain the same... Gb (hoping for some big musical progressions in '98). -- "BIG UP YA CHRISTMAS AND NEW YEAR" from * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - L@@K WHAT THE CAT DRAGGED iN - ADVENT CRAZY http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/lwtcdi/all/ DAMN JUKEBOX http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/lwtcdi/all/4musjuke.htm * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * X amount of party streamers...