From Chris Fahey Sent Wed, Apr 21st 1999, 20:20
From Chris Fahey Sent Wed, Apr 21st 1999, 20:20
Hey, Sam, long time no hear!
Nice topic, this hip hop history.=20
The reason why old school hip hop beats and mc-ing sound 'primitive'
to you could be because of two things I haven't seen discussed:
1) They *were* literally primitive: Neither of the two disciplines
was very mature, plain and simple. Real innovators like Rakim had not =
broken
new ground in MC-ing, for example. It's like comparing Bix Beiderbeck =
(sp)
with Dizzy Gillespie. At the time a lot of that stuff was really =
innovative,
and like many innovations lacks polish and may seem a bit rough, =
especially
when the genre matures and real masters are given a chance to practice =
the
art form.
As has already been said, a lot of the electronic music innovation
in early 80's electro and hip-hop was supplanted by the fashion of =
sampling
of "slicker" and more time-tested instrumental genres such as funk, =
rock,
and disco (the kind of disco that had bassists and drummers like Chic).
2) Fashion. Some of those old school beats can be compared with
today's minimal techno like the basic channel stuff pretty favorably if =
you
put it in the right frame of mind, but one is more fashionable to some
people than the other. Maybe it's just a matter of different strokes =
for
different folks?
But, the "which came first" thing is another story. I think it just
depends on the artist. In my girlfriend's band (which basically =
consists of
three hip hop heads, her singing, and everyone producing in some way) =
the
songs come out of an iterative process, sometimes driven by the beats =
or
riffs, sometimes by the lyrical structure, and sometimes by both. I =
think to
say that hip hop works one way or the other is mistaken, just as it =
would
probably be silly to ask George and Ira Gershwin whether they wrote for =
the
piano or the vocal first.
Also remember that in the sickeningly exploitative world of the hip
hop record industry, a lot of rap stars get stuck with producers they =
may
have never met before, or at the very least they get their beats =
delivered
to them long after their lyrics are made. Hip Hop acts aren't like rock
bands anymore. People don't get together and start bands in their =
garages -
MCs develop lyrics and a persona and then, if they're lucky, they hook =
up
with record labels and take whatever producer they can get or is most
marketable. And this producer then makes a 'track' for them. My guess =
is
that in many cases mainstream hip hop is not the collaborative artistic
process it once was. What is it now? That would be an interesting essay =
-
how electronic music and the music industry has diffused creative =
ownership
all over the place to the point that it becomes meaningless to identify =
a
creative originator for a lot of music out there. Worn out topics such =
as DJ
culture and sampling connect with this too, but I think it's a new =
wrinkle.
Also, you gotta admit that asking the IDM list about Hip Hop theory
is like finding out about Goth culture on CNN. (And we're all gonna =
find out
what that's like for the next month!)
- Cf
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