Re: (idm)long-ass Hip-hop history

From sun rob and his arkestra
Sent Thu, Apr 22nd 1999, 15:47

> notoriously difficult to sound good using a modern rap delivery style on top
> of syncopated-freakout bass drum patterns with too much reverb and choppy
> hi-hats. The raps had to be deliberately simplistic and each line was forced
> to carry about the same dynamic weight just to be heard clearly over the beats.

i don't know...check out the opener "table of contents" on the new roots
record.  the first half features deliberately crappy production, slimy
hi-hats and all, and black thought wraps a modern, slightly old school
flow around the beat.  then it shifts to present-day production, and malik
b throws down a more old school style rhyme. (of course, black thought is
quite a talented mc, and could probably sound good over cheesy old beats!)

i wonder how much of old hip hop vocal sound is due to the fact that what
the first rappers were doing was totally new (debts to reggae toasters,
etc, aside) and that it wasn't clear HOW to put words to music without
singing, but still keeping a groove.  i think it took a generation of kids
who grew up hearing the first rappers to come up with _more_ ways to flow
over a track (not necessarily _better_) than the first pioneers had time
to. 


regarding public enemy:  a lot mc's cite chuck d as an influence, but not
in the way you might expect.  most attribute to him the green light to
speak on politics, say their opinions straight out, etc.  i think in the
case of public enemy, they are so monolithic that it will take years
before we see more of their style distilled and copied...but the influence
is there. the bomb squad, on the other hand, influenced production styles
tremendously, in and out of hip hop.  (honestly, take "tomorrow never
knows" by the beatles, give it bomb squad production, and you have the
chemical brothers.)  

similarly, i think we're just starting to see slick rick's vocal influence
(well, putting snoop dogg aside), and it's been what...a decade since he
was in his prime? so i think the problem is that _lasting_ influence takes
time to be digested and show up, while pure style appropriation (legions
of wannabe wu-tang, the glut of timbaland production that has rendered the
R&B/rap distinction totally moot)


sam, if you're still reading this, i think de la soul is one example of a
'kooky' vocal set who necessitated new styles of production. though
they're so intertwined with prince paul's innovation it's hard to tell who
was pushing who.  then there's the obvious kool keith, who apparently has
been driven to produce for himself.  


final note: someone mentioned that this might be a silly place to ask
about hip hop history, which i disagree with.  at the outset, there's a
lot of hip hop influence in idm and on its artists, and good portion of
what we discuss here IS hip hop if you define it liberally (most of the
ninja tune roster, most dj's who get mentions on this list).  finally, i
know i was a hip hop head loooong before i heard aphex twin. 

rob