From brana Sent Thu, Feb 11th 1999, 08:11
From brana Sent Thu, Feb 11th 1999, 08:11
vs AiRBase debate continued.... >> The AiRBase was >>designed as a module to sit in a rack somewhere and be controlled as many >of >>us who use MIDI like to do with things. > >still a limitation though, sad that they have yet to generate a >decent mix of these two wonderful drum machines (I could live >without the sequencer, but the knobs and polyphany >would be nice)... I guess a pc-1600/626/airbase combo >is what I'm looking for... but that runs a little on the high end of >things... .v/jek, respectively, that's the point I'm making. The AiRBase is not for everyone (like every other piece of gear). Otherwise we'd all have the exact same setups. And I'm a little confuse by your comment. You feel limited by the 9 notes of polyphony on the AiRBase!? How is that a limitation? As for your desire for knobs, I'll try and take a stab at what the JoMoX developer (Juergen) was thinking. If I guy like yourself can "live without the sequencer" then that takes us into module territory. Now to create a 9 voice ananlog module would be very expensive with the knobs. There's no easy utopian way to put this. How can they as manufacturers make this product usable yet affordable? What point is there in them creating something that only a handful can afford. By removing the knobs they were able to create a 9 voice analog drum module with unbelievable sound control and midi manipulation for $995 list. Ani, in my opinion, no functionality has been list. The AiRBase ships with both Cubase mixermaps and Logic Environments for both the MAC and PC. You really have to see the mixermap (the only one of the two I've used). Every parameter has a virtual fader right on your screen and you can 'twist" any "knob" you like. It provides a lot more flexibility in my opinion as there is a lot more controlability at your fingertips, especially in recording multiple parameter changes. To each his own as not everyone likes working this way, but you might want to reserve your judgement until you actually sit down and try using an AiRBase. >Think of it in terms of this: the AiRBase 99 allows you to >>control over 60 sound changing parameters (for the different instruments >and >>LFOs) via midi control messages (each parameter has its own controller >>number). What other analog device can do this? > >waldorf pulse, for one, and it has knobs (61 parameters >controlled via 6 actual knobs).. True. Thanks for the info. Keep in mind though that the Pulse has only six knobs and for example the XBase has 27. There is a lot more hardware effort involved and $$$ to do this. >Why implement 60 knobs anyways, you already mentioned it was >(obviously) digitally controlled analogue.. why not utilize 30 knobs >that do double duty, or 10 that do triple duty (I'm generalizing)... Ask any XBase user on the list if they would want to give up any of their knobs. The XBase is a live performance tool and one of the things I love about it is that I can reach out, and twist a knob. I don't want to be doing funky shift finger combinations just to change a parameter. Form vs. function. The XBase was made for this so it needs all these knobs. Now the AiRBase, as I've stated, is a module. Even if the AiRBase had as many knobs as you think it needs, what's the point. It's going to sit in a rack that for most people will not be within arms length anyway. You want to do detailed sound editing on a module sitting in a rack? Well....actually you can. Let's take your double duty pilosophy to the extreme. One knob that can control all sixty + parameters. The AiRBase does have one value knob that can also transmit controller info for the parameter that is beind editied. The interface built into the AiRBase is very easy to navigate through and by using the cursor and menu buttons and the value knob and LCD screen on it. There's also an audition key so you can hear the sounds you're editing without having to start use any other gear. All parameters and instruments can be edited and saved as kits through this manner also. Anyway, by reducing parameter editing to the one knob, they have GREATLY reduced the cost of the unit without sacrificing any functionality in my opinion. Of course nothing will ever be as good as having a knob for every parameter, but I feel that this tradeoff is liveable considering it is a module. >>Forget that's it's even >>analog for a sec. Does the drumstation have this kind of control > >The drumstation could have, and (by your own omission) could >have been implemented cheaper ... but that isn't what it was designed to >do. If you mean by taking away knobs on the DS, then that is not completely accurate. It's more expensive to add knobs to an analog machine to digitally control analog components than it is to add knobs to a digital machine to digitally control digital compements. .>I'm sure, if jomox is a success, other companies will come out with DSP >machines that could do 10x as much for a lesser price and sound good enough >for my money >(Granted, analogue sounds good.. but what other DSP machines loose >slightly in tonal character, they make up for it in about 800 other >areas.. consider all points of the spectrum).. That's fine man. Go buy an MC505 and have fun with it. It's a cool machine too and I'm sure you won't be dissapointed. But, put the XBase kick drum next to any digital and I think you'll know what I'm talking about. Sure, this may not matter for you. Not everyone is into the analog sound and cares if their drums sound warm and the kick can fuck up woofers. That's why there is a range of products out there. The market is filled with something for everybody. Any it's simply not true that digital DSP synths make up for their loss in tonal character in 800 other areas. You mean by adding bullshit digital reverbs and all kinds of other bells and whistles to attract kids. Bottom line is nothing sounds like analog and nothing sounds like digital either and both have their place. One does not eclipse the other in feautures as you would have some beleive. >In the history of analog synth design, has any >>manufacturer ever built an analog synth that was completely controllable >>through midi and had knobs that can do what the XBase knobs do? > >yes.. waldorf (doepfer as well, eh?)... Waldorf I've already touched on, but as far as I am aware, Doepfer modules do not transmit midi when a knob is twisted. There are modules/boxes that allow you to convert midi to CV to control paramters on the modules, but I don't think it goes the other way. It is possible I guess, but you would need separate hardware and lots of it to convert X number of knobs worth of CV to midi somehow. Maybe I'm wrong. Any insight? Peace .v/jek. Lively debate is good but let's please keep the personal attacks and ego bullshit out of her. I love chats like these as I learn things as we all do, but some of your comments are really unnecessary. :) Brana