Re: [microsound] repository

From benjamin c acree
Sent Thu, Feb 1st 2007, 03:51

I think that the idea that somehow asia has been "passed the cultural
baton" is already a banality and flatly untrue.

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Milan Davidovic wrote on 1/31/07 at 6:07 PM

>Thank goodness; do you know hard it is to hold a coffee and a muffin
>AND a cultural baton all at the same time?

Perhaps I should have said "passed the Stalin belt":

<http://i11.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/88/82/f2b4_1_b.JPG>

Best, vatic

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A discussion about style?!! Please proceed!

-Adrian

--- Brian Klein <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> what was the style of chinese gabber that someone
> mentioned a while back?


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From ???@??? Thu Feb  1 01:15:14 2007
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From: Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
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That's beside the point... I googled there fore I am.

-Adrian

--- Charles Turner <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> Well, if you're going to use the wikipedia as the final authority,
> you
> should at least investigate their entry on Bhangra, which I wouldn't
> exactly call "indian pop" considering its rather long history as a
> folk
> music in the Punjab...


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From ???@??? Thu Feb  1 00:58:37 2007
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Xdugef wrote on 1/31/07 at 6:06 PM

>Sagoo grew up in "Birmingham, England, in a predominantly Black
>neighbourhood, influenced by disco, rap and Motown music".  So I see
>that as western influence on indian pop music.. not the other way
>around. 

Well, if you're going to use the wikipedia as the final authority, you
should at least investigate their entry on Bhangra, which I wouldn't
exactly call "indian pop" considering its rather long history as a folk
music in the Punjab...

Best, vatic

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what was the style of chinese gabber that someone
mentioned a while back?


--- Charles Turner <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> Xdugef wrote on 1/31/07 at 4:16 PM
> 
> >So can we expect to see all the hot new club hits
> to come out of india
> >and china? Maybe a new genre will emerge called
> RedChilloutAmbient?
> 
> I'd argue the cultural baton passed to Asia a long
> time ago, it's just
> that "Westerners" will be the last to know.
> 
> You might want to check out Bally Sagoo or Seo Taiji
> for a start.
> 
> Best, vatic
> 
> 
>
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> 



 
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 23:35:53 2007
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Ian Reddy wrote:

> My experience has been that if I look at a work of
> art I know nothing about, it still triggers connections to things I've
> experienced

sure, but are those connections where the emotions come from, or are 
they something else? When I look at a work of art I know nothing about 
there are two parallel response processes - a) emotional/ physical/ 
physiological and b) intelluctual/ philosophical. Both happen in 
parallel. I'm not sure if they normally influence each other or not, but 
my instinct says they can even if they don't always.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed


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On 1/31/07, Charles Turner <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I'd argue the cultural baton passed to Asia a long time ago, it's just
> that "Westerners" will be the last to know.

Thank goodness; do you know hard it is to hold a coffee and a muffin
AND a cultural baton all at the same time?

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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--- Charles Turner <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I'd argue the cultural baton passed to Asia a long time ago, it's
> just that "Westerners" will be the last to know.

Last to know or last to care?

> You might want to check out Bally Sagoo or Seo Taiji for a start.

What about them? I don't see how the economy's of their countries of
origin having much to do with their being talented or determined. Sagoo
grew up in "Birmingham, England, in a predominantly Black
neighbourhood, influenced by disco, rap and Motown music".  So I see
that as western influence on indian pop music.. not the other way
around. 

-Adrian



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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 22:29:27 2007
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Xdugef wrote on 1/31/07 at 4:16 PM

>So can we expect to see all the hot new club hits to come out of india
>and china? Maybe a new genre will emerge called RedChilloutAmbient?

I'd argue the cultural baton passed to Asia a long time ago, it's just
that "Westerners" will be the last to know.

You might want to check out Bally Sagoo or Seo Taiji for a start.

Best, vatic


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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 21:17:22 2007
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So can we expect to see all the hot new club hits to come out of india
and china? Maybe a new genre will emerge called RedChilloutAmbient?

Maybe I could hire some programmers in india to write max patches for
me so I can cash in on the new global economy?

-Adrian

"The great transnational consortiums, principal agents in the process
of integration of economic blocks, are located in those nations where
they obtain most benefits and where the salaries or government charges
are lowest, and as globalization advances, they are organized to assume

more power and dominion. In this way, multinational industries are
turned into true financial powers who enter into competition with the
economies of nations, they weaken them and destroy the means of
sustenance of marginalized and rural communities; thus, at a time when
the generation of wealth diminishes in many countries, because of
international competition, the distribution of income becomes all the
time more unequal, to the detriment of the weakest. (Roman, 2004: 45) "


--- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> > One of the most interesting philosophers of aesthetics I've read is
> > Stefan Morawski, whose book:  _Inquiries into the Fundamentals of
> > Aesthetics_ (MIT Press, 1974) is the best english language  
> > statement of
> > his thinking.
> 
> thanks for doing this!
> also, I uploaded:
> Fibreculture Journal Issue 5.pdf
> 'Speculations on a Marxist theory of the Virtual Revolution'
> 
> for any .microsounders who might have an interest in reading it
> 
> 
> 


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> in no particular place....just a bunch of atoms, it seems.

bits are electrons or photons...not atoms...sorry, couldn't resist ;)


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--Boundary_(ID_qgXy5hfcB2NlfRvq7i9DtQ)
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> One of the most interesting philosophers of aesthetics I've read is
> Stefan Morawski, whose book:  _Inquiries into the Fundamentals of
> Aesthetics_ (MIT Press, 1974) is the best english language  
> statement of
> his thinking.

thanks for doing this!
also, I uploaded:
Fibreculture Journal Issue 5.pdf
'Speculations on a Marxist theory of the Virtual Revolution'

for any .microsounders who might have an interest in reading it


--Boundary_(ID_qgXy5hfcB2NlfRvq7i9DtQ)--

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--- Ian Reddy <xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> No, you can enjoy art without a point of reference.  But when do you
> ever actually do that?  My experience has been that if I look at a
> work of
> art I know nothing about, it still triggers connections to things
> I've
> experienced

Som epeople can but many people can't or won't or feel uncomfortable
and don't know what to do with themselves.

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 17:08:38 2007
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Okay, thanks to Beau Sievers for the link to the Logic Users site.
I'll take it from here.

And thanks everyone to your indulgence of my off-topic post. We now
return you to your regular programming...

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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--- jeff gburek <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > > or listen to outputs generated by authorized
> > specialists in transcendence
> > > production.
> > 
> > Who authorizes these things?
> > 
> 
> oh, dont tell him!

Where can I apply for an art license? 

I authorize the  use paragraphs every once and awhile. ;-)

-adrian


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>Is a point of reference required in order to appreciate art?  I often  
>mull this over.  I do not think that it is but the context of said  
>piece does change when an informed point of reference is present.  I  
>do think that ones perception changes when you have an informed point  
>of reference about any artwork.  Does that make it more enjoyable?  I  
>do not think so, even though that opinion contradicts my applied logic.

No, you can enjoy art without a point of reference.  But when do you
ever actually do that?  My experience has been that if I look at a work of
art I know nothing about, it still triggers connections to things I've
experienced

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>i appreciate your comemnt but i am not quite
>completely at ease with the projection concept, unless
>you view it as a two-way street. about no work of art
>being "raw emotional outburst" that confuses the
>issues of projection even further. one can very well
>create the conditions for spontaneous (what do we
>actually mean by "raw") feeling in a work of music and

by 'raw' I meat the emotion as you experience, which I don't beleive can
be transposed into words or 'transmitted' in any way.  It is internal and
wordless, to say 'I'm angry' in an angry tone of voice is a byproduct of
being angry, it is not the emotion of anger, it is an expression of anger 
mediated by language.

>maybe, owing to the possibilities of improvising,
>music is, among all the arts, uniquely capable of this
>kind of projection. anyone who has ever heard some of
>the great jazz players can tell you that there are
>moments of this music where you know that this feeling
>is of this moment and in a certain sense the emotion
>is certainly raw even though there is a structure, a

I'm unwilling to take the jazz musicians word for it that there is 'raw
emotion' in their music.  To me it seems to be a false assertion. 
I say the jazz musicians are acting out their emotions through jazz.  They
may be feeling a great enthusiasm for the music they're playing, but their
music is a byproduct of that feeling which is mediated by the cultural
form of jazz.  

>launchpad, so to speak. (drawing also has this
>capacity as well!) i suppose you would say in response
>that this is just a case where i have accepted my
>projection as reality. and yet, what is the overall
>goal of a work of music? i argue that it is to create
>this plane where emotions and thoughts come together
>in such a mingling of projections that we are inspired
>and linked together in the experience. the great works

While I don't think works of music have particualr goals I think your
statement has merit.  And I am not (or if I have...I will say that I
don't, at the point of this line of text) denying that music can provoke
emotion BUT I don't think 'emotion' is an inherent property to a work,
emotion is something that may have been felt by the artist in production
of the work, or a work may be coded to refer to certain emotions, or
perceptions of emotion may be devined from the work.  But it's not a
property of the work.



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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 15:35:10 2007
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Is a point of reference required in order to appreciate art?  I often  
mull this over.  I do not think that it is but the context of said  
piece does change when an informed point of reference is present.  I  
do think that ones perception changes when you have an informed point  
of reference about any artwork.  Does that make it more enjoyable?  I  
do not think so, even though that opinion contradicts my applied logic.

aLEKs

On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:21 AM, Ian Reddy wrote:
>
> I think you should research heavily into Egyptian art before you  
> say it
> was made for the purpose of being beautiful.  It was not made to be
> beautiful, and was largely made (as was most ancient art) for  
> ritual or
> religious purposes.  Personally I doubt the existance of 'universal  
> art'
> (although I'm not sure what is meant by that) but if it's simply  
> art you
> and your friend find to be beautiful without knowing about it then I'm
> sure universal art abounds.
>
>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 15:21:24 2007
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>> Beauty is, I believe, a cultural or personal value. 
>
>I was talking about whether art is universal with my other friend the 
>other day. There's an exhibition of Egyptian relics currently on in the 
>museum, and she was using it as proof of the existence of universal art: 
>it had been made for the purpose of being beautiful, and beautiful was 
>how she found it, despite knowing almost nothing about Egyptian culture 
>or what the Egyptian way of life would have been.

I think you should research heavily into Egyptian art before you say it
was made for the purpose of being beautiful.  It was not made to be
beautiful, and was largely made (as was most ancient art) for ritual or
religious purposes.  Personally I doubt the existance of 'universal art'
(although I'm not sure what is meant by that) but if it's simply art you
and your friend find to be beautiful without knowing about it then I'm
sure universal art abounds.
  

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>> Ian Reddy wrote:
>>  > Also certain sounds are
>> > culturally constructed as being connected to certain emotions (such
>> as the
>> > connection of low droning sounds to feelings of gloom) 
>
>Explain more about the cultural construction that connects low droning
>sounds to a feeling either gloom or otherwise?

Just consider the fact that ambient music which features low droning
sounds is often referred to as 'dark ambient' when darkness is not
an inherent property of the music.  Darkness is, in turn, associated with
negative feelings (as well as a number of other things in some 
fairly well known binaries, light/dark is analogous to good/evil, 
happy/sad, intelligence/ignorance etc.)  So these connections form 
between things that aren't inherently connected, and they form through 
language and culture.  And that's how sounds become connected to
emotions I think.  

You are not obligated to invest into these connections,
of course, and therefore it's reasonable that one wouldn't necessarily
think of low drones as being connected to any emotions or anything in
particular.

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in the case of the egyptians or fetishes we must think
of beauty as not only a relation to surfaces but to
the utility of the object. tomb art is designed to
assist passage to another world or to keep the dead
happy being dead and not have them bother us! in a
curious twist of meanings, i began to rethink the
realm of the dead as being capitalistic reality and
all the beautiful objects which keep us placated here
as being quite similar to these mummified cats and
monkeys you see in and around sarcophagii (which means
"corpse eaters"). our body in capitalism is made of
time. we are consumers of time more than anything
else.

--jeff gburek

--- Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> 
> --- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
> >There's an exhibition of Egyptian relics currently
> on in
> > the 
> > museum, and she was using it as proof of the
> existence of universal
> > art: 
> > it had been made for the purpose of being
> beautiful, and beautiful
> > was 
> > how she found it, despite knowing almost nothing
> about Egyptian
> > culture 
> > or what the Egyptian way of life would have been.
> 
> Hmm.... fetishes have been around since the dawn of
> mankind... the
> simple fact that someone obviously spent a great of
> time and effort
> inspires curiousity, awe and an appreciation of the
> skill and labour
> involved... I beleive this can exist otuside of any
> cultural
> boundaries. 
> 
> I don't agree that those items were made simply to
> be beautiful
> either.. unless in this case you consider a tomb to
> be the same as a
> gallery. 
> 
> -Adrian
> 
> 
>
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j.ff gbk

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> 
>  > Also certain sounds are
> > culturally constructed as being connected to
> certain emotions (such as the
> > connection of low droning sounds to feelings of
> gloom) 
> 
> I find low droning sounds connected to feelings of
> calm, solidarity, 
> stability, and a resting place, especially when
> they're accompanied by a 
> bit of white noise, for example in large-scale
> air-conditioning systems. 
> (Air-con can make beautiful, beautiful noises). It's
> only when they're 
> dissonant that they're gloomy. 

 this is also mind-blowing. i am often dealing with
this very discrepnancy over what drones "signify" for
people...a friend recently did a compare contrast
doing extreme nosie drones and placing tracks of
acoustic tamboura drones and harmonium next to them.
the volume level is often the only thing that makes
for the tension we might associate with the dissonant
drone as opposed to the harmonized one. but arent all
drones in a sense harmonized? even if the intervals
are not standard pitch intervals it is their constant
relation to one another that gives it the quality of
drone?

-jg


> 
> -- 
> Damian Stewart
> +64 27 305 4107
> 
> f r e y
> live music with machines
> http://www.frey.co.nz
> http://www.myspace.com/freyed
> 
> 
>
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j.ff gbk

http://www.futurevessel.com/orphansound/

http://www.mattin.org/desetxea.html

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Subject: Re: [microsound] miles of styles of philosophes
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yes, i find sense of wonder related to beauty...but
beauty has been destroyed, related to the deceptive,
the bearer of illusions...so that we can only invoke
beauty if we are going to deal with something that is
almost its opposite

--jg
--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:

> David Powers wrote:
> 
> > Emotion only exists in terms of probability. You
> can encode a set of
> > gestures into a piece of music, that (given a
> culturally homogenous
> > group with known conditioning) has a high
> probability of provoking an
> > emotional response. However, if you played the
> music for someone who
> > lacked the relevant cultural context and
> conditioning, there would be
> > no emotional response.
> 
> Does this mean there is no such thing as universal
> art?
> 
> ... Is the experience of beauty an emotion? I
> believe it is, but I was 
> having an interesting discussion with my flatmate
> the other morning 
> where she was saying that she didn't think that it
> was.
> 
> I wonder if that means that in order to describe
> microsound as 
> 'emotional' one has to broaden one's idea about what
> an emotion is. 
> Defenders of scifi writing are sometimes in the same
> boat, finding 
> themselves having to argue that sense-of-wonder is
> an emotion, just to 
> counter claims that scifi is unemotional.
> 
> -- 
> Damian Stewart
> +64 27 305 4107
> 
> f r e y
> live music with machines
> http://www.frey.co.nz
> http://www.myspace.com/freyed
> 
> 
>
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j.ff gbk

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the problem of transcendance is always what you do
afterwards! my experience of this kind of social
activity was before techno and raves. and it was on
the burning shores of california where it was
happening. i think not instutions but the overall
cultural vibe is what gives rise to these
possibilities. what existed in the eighties in the bay
area is quite different than what we see now. more
parallel is the berlin i live in now where the  war
destruction, partition of the city and the slow
economic development has left these strange unused
architectural spaces and people disenchanted with the
mainstream can make some of their dreams come true
there. but we are at the tailend of it i think. there
are always discussions about noise complaints here
now. the need to sleep is big problem. (that also is a
form of transcendance!). i think the strangest
experience of transcendance i had recently in berlin
was when a theater group did a piece on prohibition
and then had 20's era party with a dj spinning only
78's. it was certainly problemmatic for the american
(me) to see these whities dancing around to big band
music when i am aware of the politics of black and
white in that era. but nevertheless, they managed to
run the thing for two whole months twice a week and it
was packed always until the wee hours, i myself being
under the spell and often not leaving until 5:30 am. i
am curious why, because many of them where people in
their twenties (so it is a numeric thing,hmmm). it was
really a place out of time (and yet in time fixed, by
its vestigial cultural trappings). it is in such a
sphere that one encounters the ghosts of our cultures.
the symbol of the american big band and its reception
by the germans in the era of the nazis. the music of
our genetic forebears. when death was probable and
life needed to be now?

best, jeff gburek
--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:

> Stephen Hastings-King wrote:
> 
>  > the business of
> > transcendence is one undertaken by authorized
> specialists in transcendence
> > production.  there are special buildings around
> where you can go to look at
> > or listen to outputs generated by authorized
> specialists in transcendence
> > production.  
> 
> I'm currently undergoing an intense period of
> research into techno music 
> (of the Detroit/New York/Chicago variety) and these
> sentences resonate 
> strongly with the construction of the techno gig and
> the role of the DJ 
> therein. I'm also helping organise a techno party
> which happens in two 
> weeks and we find ourselves having discussions about
> how to bring about 
> this production of transcendance through the
> production of the party.
> 
> Interesting...
> 
> -- 
> Damian Stewart
> +64 27 305 4107
> 
> f r e y
> live music with machines
> http://www.frey.co.nz
> http://www.myspace.com/freyed
> 
> 
>
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> 


j.ff gbk

http://www.futurevessel.com/orphansound/

http://www.mattin.org/desetxea.html

http://www.djalma.com


 
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From: Philippe Petit <xxxxxxxx-xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [Microsound-announce] BiP_HOp Generation : January playlist
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BiP_HOp Generation on Radio Grenouille  //  88.8 FM
Wednesday evenings  : 19:00 - 20:30 PM  //  Marseille  //  France

January 2007 Playlist

  ARTIST      ALBUM     label
Barry Adamson : stranger on the sofa (Central Control International)
Alexandra Gardner : luminoso (Innova)
Sybarite : cut out shape (Temporary Residence)
Salvatore : days of rage (Racing Junior)
Rothko : a personal account of conflict (Badhand)
Illachime Quartet : s/t (Illachime)
Lawrence english : for varying degrees of winter (Baskaru)
Häuschka : room to expand (Fat Cat)
Trentemoller : the last resort (Poker Flat)
Panda Bear : bro's (FatCat)
W.A.S. : groove-je? (Label Bleu)
Animal Collective : people (Fat Cat)
(r) : under the cables, into the wind (Important)
Ulrike Haage : weisses land (Content)
Jeremy Warmsley : the art of fiction (Transgressive)
Coem : move/the mountain (Kinky Star)
Ascoltare : visceral vendor (Tripel)
Angelo Petronella : sintesi da un dario (Die Schachtel)
Urawa : parable of the driver (Divine Comedy)
Clara Rockmore : lost theremin album (Bridge)
Prima Donkey : rythme exotique (Radical Duke)
Dosh : the lost take (Anticon)
Chris Watson - BJ Nilsen : storm (Touch)
Inch-Time : as the moon draws water (Static Caravan)
VA. Blueprints (12K)
John Wiese : magical crystal blah v.3 (Kitty Play)
VA. Traumzeit (Traumton)
Reuber : südpol (Staubgold)
Thomas Leer : parts of a greater hole (Karvavena)
Par Lammers Trio : all die bunten schafe (Traumton)
Christa Pfangen : watch me getting back the end (Die Schachtel)
Julie Sokolow : something about violins (Western Vinyl)
VA. snappy turns (Tomlab)
Tellaro : setback on the right track (2nd Rec)
Hella : there is no 666 in outer space (Ipecac)


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> > or listen to outputs generated by authorized
> specialists in transcendence
> > production.
> 
> Who authorizes these things?
> 

oh, dont tell him!

j.ff gbk

http://www.futurevessel.com/orphansound/

http://www.mattin.org/desetxea.html

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david, of course there is no way to "insert" emotions
into the body of the audience members. but, to take it
from the pint of view of theater, the evolution of
radical theater is partcularly useful to think about
in this context. particukarly polish theater,
developing a certain kind of guardedness concerning
the role of language or direct statement and putting
the responsibilty of the actors to become vessels for
a feeling or a form of thought that, owing to
repressive condtions, had to go partly unspoken. i
still have the feeling that this is quite essential to
creating certain kinds of work, although not every
work of art needs to adopt such principles. in a
certain way, as when pasolini spoke about each film
"reinventing" cinema, works have need to find a
plateau wherein they particpate in something actually
more archaic, to bring the origin forward so to speak.
there are degress to which i feel personally
disinterested in those kinds of theater that have
tried to "simulate" the so-called "dromenon" of the
greeks. and greek avant-garde music is filled with
this tendency too which, by and large, i find myself
before an off-putting kind of massive block that is
saying "HERE IS THIS EMOTION FEEL IT OR DIE". i think
of christou's work as being peculiarly free of this
overblown sentiment and when you hear the cacophony he
creates i get a sense of propulsion into emotional
territories that ask large questions. in a culture of
overkill, more sensitive people can find a feeling in
understatement. but the emotion particular to
microsound i find to be quite another story. there is
an emotional range that is interesting but, as has
been pointed out, if there are no words, it is more
likely that one experiences maybe a freedom from
emotions, a sense of clearing and possibility. we need
this feeling of course. but it is not the only thing
that needs expressing.
--- David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> On 1/30/07, Ian Reddy <xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx>
> wrote:
> > I think that in art, emotion is something either
> projected
> > onto the work or it is something acted out by the
> performer.
> > No work of art is a raw emotional outburst -
> that's impossible
> > as art and music are obviously mediated through
> the intellect
> > and already existing cultural forms.
> 
> Yes, I was hoping someone would point this out,
> thank you!
> 
> As I have insisted in the past, I  must once again
> point out how
> flawed I think the model of communication is, that
> implies that a
> creator is able to directly insert an emotion into a
> piece. This is
> impossible - emotion is a chemical response in the
> individual to
> various stimuli. The work of art is not a container.
> If an actor in a
> play is angry onstage, and starts screaming, it
> doesn't make me angry.
> 
> Emotion only exists in terms of probability. You can
> encode a set of
> gestures into a piece of music, that (given a
> culturally homogenous
> group with known conditioning) has a high
> probability of provoking an
> emotional response. However, if you played the music
> for someone who
> lacked the relevant cultural context and
> conditioning, there would be
> no emotional response.
> 
> Note that attempting to specifically provoke
> emotional responses is an
> aesthetic choice on the part of the creator.
> Alternately, creator can
> design artistic pieces using very minimal grammars
> and avoiding
> linguistic elements that provoke obvious responses.
> Such artwork may
> appear more cerebral to the average observer -
> though there is still
> the possibility that by virtue of its construction
> and the particular
> mindset and manner of observation, the artwork will
> nevertheless
> provoke an emotional response.
> 
> Finally, words are intimately connected with power
> and control. The
> level of conditioned response to language is high,
> so it's likely that
> lyric-based music does have a higher probability of
> provoking an
> emotional response in observers that can interpret
> the linguistic
> statements correctly (ie. you must know the language
> being used).
> 
> ~David
> 
>
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j.ff gbk

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 13:08:50 2007
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From: jeff gburek <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] miles of styles of philosophes
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stephen, your thinking is, as usual, very dense and
quite interesting to me. and i know you have given
time to the questions of improvisation, so if you can
indulge a sense of immediacy, can i not also say that
we indulge the structures of society with a similar
shrug of suspicion? one of the reasons i have chosen
to work outside the frameworks of institutions is of
course to address them with the important reference to
something they have displaced themselves upon. this is
done perhaps with a sense of naivety that i find
implicit in the structures themselves. as i have been
working on themes of medieval mystics, i am reading a
book, in italian, but i believe it is written in
english, called la santa anoressia, by a man named
bell. in this context, the religious experience is
recast, in the analysis of interpreting the psychology
of the eating habits of some of these woman saints, as
a struggle for personal autonomy. here i see perfect
accordance with your theories of the dependancy of the
existing social and political context driving a kind
of behaviour pattern towards a personal compromise
with the repressive powers that allows one a freedom
to influence the world. the case of catherine of siena
as best example. but the plane on which these things
were done is very different from our own. in her case
she developed her behaviours with the support of
institutionalized mystical experience which, owing to
the perceptions of heresy, were nevertheless very
dangerous. but perhaps the sense of danger is the one
that is most important to refer to in terms of the
institutions. for what a great work is going to
achieve is going to be pushing the way we think to
extremes that must seem dangerous. (think in the
modern context of berg's wozzeck and the fragmets of
buechner they are based upon, listen to what this work
says about the world, poverty etc.) the danger is that
we create something that is incoherent and it will not
be recieved by society. the despair that accompanies
it is that one has not "done anything". whereas, there
is another level of personal reception where one can
feel the work transmits what is neccessary through
those few people who are capable of recieving it. most
artists will work only in this way the whole of their
lives. you will probably never hear my music. but my
music has had an effect on people. there are too many
people and in the end too many structures in the world
for an artist to be bound by and in the end one has to
deal with only those that prevent the work from going
on. often i have the feeling of a big truth: the
institutions are not aware of the reality of
obscurity. this obsucrity and anonymity are the
primary conditions of humanity. a great work must take
them into consideration.

best, jeff gburek
  
--- Stephen Hastings-King <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> projections involve responses shaped by
> (social-historical) rule sets (or
> institutions).
> these rules range from genre outward to quite broad
> social matters.
> any response to any cultural object involves rules.
> questions concerning the origin, nature,
> institutional enframedness,
> legitimacy and binding nature of these rules are all
> political.
> so it follows that the most useful ways to stage
> these questions may well be
> found in political philosophy--or in philosophy more
> generally---and not in
> discussions too narrowly focused on directly musical
> questions--or on
> aesthetic philosophy.  aesthetics is a subset of
> larger-scale normative
> frameworks.  it is not a free-floating area of
> thought.  aesthetic
> philosophy is among the densest type of ideological
> thinking: existing
> social norms are most thoroughly in force around
> definitions of that which
> transcends them.  transcendence needs to be
> controlled, quarantined, placed
> socially and politically in authorized spaces.  the
> business of
> transcendence is one undertaken by authorized
> specialists in transcendence
> production.  there are special buildings around
> where you can go to look at
> or listen to outputs generated by authorized
> specialists in transcendence
> production.  while you are visiting, you can have a
> Moment during which you
> loose yourself.  this sense of loss of oneself is
> not one of freedom from
> instituted social norms: it is a total projection
> through those norms: you
> presuppose them in the act of forgetting about them.
> 
> while i think that the only coherent relation to the
> marxist tradition at
> this point has to be predicated on closure (in the
> decon/heidegger/nietzsche
> sense, in the "closure of western metaphysics"
> sense)--anything that enables
> folk to relativize their social position and by
> extension to relativise
> their responses is a good thing.  because it is only
> in relativizing your
> responses that you can start to see the structures
> that shape those
> responses.  these structures are indices of what
> binds you to what exists,
> of the extent to which you reproduce it, the extent
> to which you are it.
> it is good, i think, to be suspicous of immediacy. 
> it is also good not to
> loose the ability to indulge immediacy.  but it is
> good to be suspicious of
> it.
> 
> stephen
> 
> On 1/30/07, Ian Reddy <xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx>
> wrote:
> >
> > >one thing about certain kinds of sound, when they
> hit
> > >you, when you are alone, for example, this
> perosnal
> > >experience, when you hear something cool, that
> you
> > >dont hear any hype about beforehand, and it
> creates
> > >this separation from alienation, this curiously
> > >numinous bubble, albeit momentary, until someone
> else
> > >says, oh, you're listening to that, didnt you
> hear the
> > >really great first album, or someone say its crap
> and
> > >you no longer feel intimate with it even if you
> dont
> > >care what someone else thinks. what the blogger
> guy
> > >says makes sense in terms of emotional range
> only. is
> > >all digital music in a sense governed by an irony
> > >(related to a high level of self-consciousness)
> that
> > >doesnt allow for the feelings such as joni
> mitchell
> > >might sing about? does the full range of human
> emotion
> > >demand words or demand the discarding of words?
> > >anyway, its about your own fantasy formations,
> your
> > >wildest imaginations, isnt it. what you desire.
> >
> > I think that in art, emotion is something either
> projected
> > onto the work or it is something acted out by the
> performer.
> > No work of art is a raw emotional outburst -
> that's impossible
> > as art and music are obviously mediated through
> the intellect
> > and already existing cultural forms.  I suggest
> that Joni Mitchel is
> > performing her emotions through song.  Also
> certain sounds are
> > culturally constructed as being connected to
> certain emotions (such as the
> > connection of low droning sounds to feelings of
> gloom) and the artist
> > often exploits these connections or we simply
> project them onto a
> > work.  So....in brief I do think that art can
> provoke an emotional
> > response BUT I also think the emotion we
> experience is drastically
> > different from the emotion we speak of as being
> present in art, and
> > probably not the same thing at all.
> >
> >
> >
>
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> >
> >
> 


j.ff gbk

http://www.futurevessel.com/orphansound/

http://www.mattin.org/desetxea.html

http://www.djalma.com


 
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 07:27:11 2007
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Hi Milan,

Milan Davidovic wrote:
> So, it's like this: I've come into possession of an old version of
> Logic. The disc is for Mac and Windows, but the dongle is only for
> Mac. I've got an old Windows machine.
> 
> I'm thinking "ADB to RS-232 adapter", but my initial Google searches
> suggest that such a thing may not exist.
> 
> Options?
sell it on ebay...

sorry,

Peter


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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 08:08:19 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] miles of styles of philosophes
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Stephen Hastings-King wrote (albeit snipped a bit):

>digits just turn.  stuff happens.  it falls into a void.

A pure, elegant piece of philosophy, free of all pretension and 
intellectual wanking - quite possibly all the philosophy anyone ever 
needs to know.

R.




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From ???@??? Wed Jan 31 02:48:42 2007
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First, apologies for the OT question -- I'm not subscribed to anything
else where i could ask this.
Second, this might make you laugh; go ahead, I can take it.

So, it's like this: I've come into possession of an old version of
Logic. The disc is for Mac and Windows, but the dongle is only for
Mac. I've got an old Windows machine.

I'm thinking "ADB to RS-232 adapter", but my initial Google searches
suggest that such a thing may not exist.

Options?

Many thanks...

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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--Boundary_(ID_cjSlk67nc3EQSlreztweDA)
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 adrian:

i dont see any particular limits to what is discussed that can be drawn
using microsound as a placeholder.
i just dont. so far as i am concerned at any rate, microsound--whatever that
means, really--is like any other type of cultural work, operating in the
same context, subject to the same contradictions and problems as any other.

the public/private question refers most directly to an ongoing debate in 3-d
land: it has to do with whether one should or must bring one's work out, and
whether there are claims about that work that follow from bringing it
out--like whether it is art, whether the producer is an artist, that kind of
thing.  i am not sure that this is of any interest to anyone so i'll leave
it at that for now.

"the great conversation" is an academic cliche.  it refers to the
intertextual networks one can work out and play with amongst the text-traces
left by the sequence of legitimate Figures who constitute a tradition.  folk
act as though these Figures are Legitimate because of the quality of their
work, which implies that cultural markets are rational.  of course, they
aren't and the story behind the legitimation of any particular figure has as
much or more to do with the mass of commentary that builds up around them,
and with the relations of cultural power that play out across commentary.

the internet doesnt really resolve problems of bringing your work out.  you
can post it, people can download it, sure: but it is a funny kind of public,
isn't it?  in no particular place....just a bunch of atoms, it seems. when
the collective i am part of is active, we publicize new stuff and get a
couple thousand hits a month.  we are not entirely sure what any of them
mean, and we have no idea who these folk are or where they are or even if
they are.  digits just turn.  stuff happens.  it falls into a void.   there
is no press-like apparatus that classifies/sorts online releases, so there
is no structuring of a wide public for this kind of music (whatever that may
be)...and the sad fact of the matter is that it is the
classification/sorting that is the fundamental act of cultural construction
in the context through which we move.  people seem to want what they are
told they want.  of course, there are folk who operate off that radar and
trawl about for music that others dont know about, which is fine--but that
is still an act with sociological correlates.  around this point, i
generally make some reference to bourdieu.  when i do it, i usually feel
like "fuck, what an academic geek i have become." (as i do right now.  this
works every time.)


abstraction.
well, the cynic in me reverts to bourdieu again, who argues that the
tolerance for abstraction in art is a class thing, linked to a desire to
demonstrate one's distance from necessity which increases as you move up the
class gradient.
but that is general.
i dont know what you mean by abstraction.  i refers to many things, many
types of operations.  soundwise, i have found that folk refer to types of
organization that they are not familiar with as abstract--it is a kind of
default category that lets them say something other than "what the fuck was
that?" or "i didnt get it" or---more to the point--"i didnt like it,
whatever it was."--which is fine, but it doesnt tell me much.  so what do
you mean by it?

stephen
--Boundary_(ID_cjSlk67nc3EQSlreztweDA)--

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--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
>There's an exhibition of Egyptian relics currently on in
> the 
> museum, and she was using it as proof of the existence of universal
> art: 
> it had been made for the purpose of being beautiful, and beautiful
> was 
> how she found it, despite knowing almost nothing about Egyptian
> culture 
> or what the Egyptian way of life would have been.

Hmm.... fetishes have been around since the dawn of mankind... the
simple fact that someone obviously spent a great of time and effort
inspires curiousity, awe and an appreciation of the skill and labour
involved... I beleive this can exist otuside of any cultural
boundaries. 

I don't agree that those items were made simply to be beautiful
either.. unless in this case you consider a tomb to be the same as a
gallery. 

-Adrian


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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 23:49:21 2007
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David Powers wrote:

> Beauty is, I believe, a cultural or personal value. 

I was talking about whether art is universal with my other friend the 
other day. There's an exhibition of Egyptian relics currently on in the 
museum, and she was using it as proof of the existence of universal art: 
it had been made for the purpose of being beautiful, and beautiful was 
how she found it, despite knowing almost nothing about Egyptian culture 
or what the Egyptian way of life would have been.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed


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--- Stephen Hastings-King <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> afternoon better mood let's see.
> which buildings?
> why any number of those official respositories for the material you
> can
> collage together to form the "Great Conversation" within a particular
> genre--museyrooms galleries--clubs concert halls--all the spaces
> about which
> i cant help but be ambivalent--on the one hand, it's good to be able
> to see
> and listen to stuff--on the other, the sense of quarantine, of
> separation:
> from the processes that go into making things, from the aspects of
> social
> life from which they come, about which they speak (one way or
> another)
> toward which they are addressed.  the Reification Biz.

Okay well in regards to my experiencing microsound.. it's almost
entirely at home via the internet wether downloaded or purchased
online.. 

"Great Conversation"? 


> who authorizes?
> well at one level anyone who makes stuff authorizes themselves to
> engage a
> medium, the genres that operate, the traditions that structure each
> genre.
> but anyone who makes stuff also knows that this self-authorization,
> while
> necessary, only goes so far if you want to make your work public.  to
> what
> end make your work public?  any number of reasons.  but if you do
> want to
> make your work public, it becomes quickly obvious that there are any
> number
> of intermediaries who occupy positions of cultural power by
> generating
> classifications, who construct producers by situating them through
> classification, who stream outputs toward or away from their
> audience.
> record labels, critics, radio folk, academics...and on the other
> side, those
> who control access to the special buildings within which the
> Authorized
> Objects of the moment are displayed/encountered.
> within aesthetic theory, in the end, it is the theorist who
> authorizes.
> this authorization is not neutral: it generally relies one way or
> another on
> the accepted canon of Legitimate Producers which happens to be in
> force at a
> given period.
> this seems to me neither good nor bad in itself: just the way of
> things.
> if you want your work to become public that is.
> if you dont, for whatever reason, then none of this applies directly.
> but if your work is not public, then what is it?
> i dont know the answer to that.  i suspect there are many.

The internet. It used to be that if you wanted to make your work public
is was alot harder to do but now you can easily make yur work public
tot he entire world very cheaply with little effort.

Wether public or private is there any issues to do with any of this
that is specific to "microsound"?


> i dont really know what being a marxist means at this point.

Neither do I.

> variation:
> emotional responses to cultural objects is not unstructured.  you
> dont get
> around political questions by referring to immediacy.  immediacy is a
> kind
> of forgetting of these problems.  that is why i said what i did about
> relativizing your responses.  there are always rules that shape your
> reactions to what you encounter: there is no space outside.  so the
> important issue, it seems to me anyway, is your relation to them.

I think I can agree to all of that but when you say cultural objects I
don't know how well that fits into abstraction or microsound. In
regards to visual arts and especially in the realm of computer graphics
I have encountered alot of resistance to abstraction. Perhaps that is
because there may no or very little cultural reference or recognizable
objects. I see the same issue being for music that does not beats or
lyrics or traditonal scales and tones.

Like the computer geek generation might like granular synthesis because
it reminds them of the sound of a modem while grandpa can't stand
anything but Lawrence Welk.

Which political questions did you have in mind?

-Adrian

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Damian Stewart wrote on 1/30/07 at 5:51 PM

>.... Is the experience of beauty an emotion?

Google "aesthetic emotion" whydontcha...

<xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>

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On 1/30/07, Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:

> Does this mean there is no such thing as universal art?
>
> ... Is the experience of beauty an emotion? I believe it is, but I was
> having an interesting discussion with my flatmate the other morning
> where she was saying that she didn't think that it was.

One possible answer is that there could be universal art, but ONLY
under the condition that one attempts to work with a "context free"
type of grammar, and remove all emotional and cultural content.  In
fact, this is precisely what the Constructivist tradition in European
art attempted to do (which also has a strong connection with elements
of the socialist tradition, fyi...).

Beauty is, I believe, a cultural or personal value. To declare
something beautiful, for me implies more of an intellectual judgement
than an emotional response. This is so, because emotional responses
depend on too many external factors to be available consistently, but
the aesthetic judgements may remain consistent despite fluctuating
emotions. To illustrate my point: I believe that most trees are
beautiful, however, I don't feel an emotional response every time I
look at trees. Many days I'm too busy and stressed out to appreciate
them, and to observe them in an aesthetic manner.

~David

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--Boundary_(ID_UuA/5imn1TF+uPz5B9wLdQ)
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afternoon better mood let's see.
which buildings?
why any number of those official respositories for the material you can
collage together to form the "Great Conversation" within a particular
genre--museyrooms galleries--clubs concert halls--all the spaces about which
i cant help but be ambivalent--on the one hand, it's good to be able to see
and listen to stuff--on the other, the sense of quarantine, of separation:
from the processes that go into making things, from the aspects of social
life from which they come, about which they speak (one way or another)
toward which they are addressed.  the Reification Biz.

who authorizes?
well at one level anyone who makes stuff authorizes themselves to engage a
medium, the genres that operate, the traditions that structure each genre.
but anyone who makes stuff also knows that this self-authorization, while
necessary, only goes so far if you want to make your work public.  to what
end make your work public?  any number of reasons.  but if you do want to
make your work public, it becomes quickly obvious that there are any number
of intermediaries who occupy positions of cultural power by generating
classifications, who construct producers by situating them through
classification, who stream outputs toward or away from their audience.
record labels, critics, radio folk, academics...and on the other side, those
who control access to the special buildings within which the Authorized
Objects of the moment are displayed/encountered.
within aesthetic theory, in the end, it is the theorist who authorizes.
this authorization is not neutral: it generally relies one way or another on
the accepted canon of Legitimate Producers which happens to be in force at a
given period.
this seems to me neither good nor bad in itself: just the way of things.
if you want your work to become public that is.
if you dont, for whatever reason, then none of this applies directly.
but if your work is not public, then what is it?
i dont know the answer to that.  i suspect there are many.

answer questions?
sure.  if i can.

you dont need to be a marxist to use marxian styles of analysis:
agreed.  i dont really know what being a marxist means at this point.  but i
do find alot about the modes of analysis within the marxist tradition to be
useful, powerful even.  but you have to be critical about them too.  it is
not, and never was, a space outside the capitalist order that it opposed.

variation:
emotional responses to cultural objects is not unstructured.  you dont get
around political questions by referring to immediacy.  immediacy is a kind
of forgetting of these problems.  that is why i said what i did about
relativizing your responses.  there are always rules that shape your
reactions to what you encounter: there is no space outside.  so the
important issue, it seems to me anyway, is your relation to them.

stephen
--Boundary_(ID_UuA/5imn1TF+uPz5B9wLdQ)--

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--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:

> Ian Reddy wrote:
>  > Also certain sounds are
> > culturally constructed as being connected to certain emotions (such
> as the
> > connection of low droning sounds to feelings of gloom) 

Explain more about the cultural construction that connects low droning
sounds to a feeling either gloom or otherwise?


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--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
> Does this mean there is no such thing as universal art?
> 
> ... Is the experience of beauty an emotion? I believe it is, but I
> was 
> having an interesting discussion with my flatmate the other morning 
> where she was saying that she didn't think that it was.

I beleive there might be universal art.. at least amongst us humans on
earth but these also revolve around lowest common denominators. But
breasts for example may only have acheived that status because of them
being stuck in our faces during infancy.

Desire is an emotion which seems to me to be the foundation of ideals
formed from such common denominators.

-Adrian

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 22:54:48 2007
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Ian Reddy wrote:

> I think that in art, emotion is something either projected
> onto the work or it is something acted out by the performer.

Is the experience of beauty an emotion?

 > Also certain sounds are
> culturally constructed as being connected to certain emotions (such as the
> connection of low droning sounds to feelings of gloom) 

I find low droning sounds connected to feelings of calm, solidarity, 
stability, and a resting place, especially when they're accompanied by a 
bit of white noise, for example in large-scale air-conditioning systems. 
(Air-con can make beautiful, beautiful noises). It's only when they're 
dissonant that they're gloomy...

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed


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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 22:51:34 2007
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David Powers wrote:

> Emotion only exists in terms of probability. You can encode a set of
> gestures into a piece of music, that (given a culturally homogenous
> group with known conditioning) has a high probability of provoking an
> emotional response. However, if you played the music for someone who
> lacked the relevant cultural context and conditioning, there would be
> no emotional response.

Does this mean there is no such thing as universal art?

.... Is the experience of beauty an emotion? I believe it is, but I was 
having an interesting discussion with my flatmate the other morning 
where she was saying that she didn't think that it was.

I wonder if that means that in order to describe microsound as 
'emotional' one has to broaden one's idea about what an emotion is. 
Defenders of scifi writing are sometimes in the same boat, finding 
themselves having to argue that sense-of-wonder is an emotion, just to 
counter claims that scifi is unemotional.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 22:20:03 2007
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Stephen Hastings-King wrote:

 > the business of
> transcendence is one undertaken by authorized specialists in transcendence
> production.  there are special buildings around where you can go to look at
> or listen to outputs generated by authorized specialists in transcendence
> production.  

I'm currently undergoing an intense period of research into techno music 
(of the Detroit/New York/Chicago variety) and these sentences resonate 
strongly with the construction of the techno gig and the role of the DJ 
therein. I'm also helping organise a techno party which happens in two 
weeks and we find ourselves having discussions about how to bring about 
this production of transcendance through the production of the party.

Interesting...

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
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--- Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Who authorizes these things?

For realz...

> What about the use of marxian dialectics to analyze a system or
> structure? You need not be a marxist to use Marx.

I'd rather not but as long as the person using it is willing to answer
questions then why not.

-adrian

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On 1/30/07, Stephen Hastings-King <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> transcendence needs to be controlled, quarantined, placed
> socially and politically in authorized spaces.  the business of
> transcendence is one undertaken by authorized specialists in transcendence
> production.  there are special buildings around where you can go to look at
> or listen to outputs generated by authorized specialists in transcendence
> production.

Who authorizes these things?

> while i think that the only coherent relation to the marxist tradition at
> this point has to be predicated on closure (in the decon/heidegger/nietzsche
> sense, in the "closure of western metaphysics" sense)--anything that enables
> folk to relativize their social position and by extension to relativise
> their responses is a good thing.

What about the use of marxian dialectics to analyze a system or
structure? You need not be a marxist to use Marx.

~Kyle

-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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On 1/30/07, Ian Reddy <xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> I think that in art, emotion is something either projected
> onto the work or it is something acted out by the performer.
> No work of art is a raw emotional outburst - that's impossible
> as art and music are obviously mediated through the intellect
> and already existing cultural forms.

Yes, I was hoping someone would point this out, thank you!

As I have insisted in the past, I  must once again point out how
flawed I think the model of communication is, that implies that a
creator is able to directly insert an emotion into a piece. This is
impossible - emotion is a chemical response in the individual to
various stimuli. The work of art is not a container. If an actor in a
play is angry onstage, and starts screaming, it doesn't make me angry.

Emotion only exists in terms of probability. You can encode a set of
gestures into a piece of music, that (given a culturally homogenous
group with known conditioning) has a high probability of provoking an
emotional response. However, if you played the music for someone who
lacked the relevant cultural context and conditioning, there would be
no emotional response.

Note that attempting to specifically provoke emotional responses is an
aesthetic choice on the part of the creator. Alternately, creator can
design artistic pieces using very minimal grammars and avoiding
linguistic elements that provoke obvious responses. Such artwork may
appear more cerebral to the average observer - though there is still
the possibility that by virtue of its construction and the particular
mindset and manner of observation, the artwork will nevertheless
provoke an emotional response.

Finally, words are intimately connected with power and control. The
level of conditioned response to language is high, so it's likely that
lyric-based music does have a higher probability of provoking an
emotional response in observers that can interpret the linguistic
statements correctly (ie. you must know the language being used).

~David

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Are you describing movie theatres?? What? what?

--- Stephen Hastings-King <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> social norms are most thoroughly in force around definitions of that
> which
> transcends them.  transcendence needs to be controlled, quarantined,
> placed
> socially and politically in authorized spaces.  the business of
> transcendence is one undertaken by authorized specialists in
> transcendence
> production.  there are special buildings around where you can go to
> look at
> or listen to outputs generated by authorized specialists in
> transcendence
> production.  while you are visiting, you can have a Moment during
> which you
> loose yourself.  

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--Boundary_(ID_tG5rXMD0g+3fKnlUbyFK5g)
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projections involve responses shaped by (social-historical) rule sets (or
institutions).
these rules range from genre outward to quite broad social matters.
any response to any cultural object involves rules.
questions concerning the origin, nature, institutional enframedness,
legitimacy and binding nature of these rules are all political.
so it follows that the most useful ways to stage these questions may well be
found in political philosophy--or in philosophy more generally---and not in
discussions too narrowly focused on directly musical questions--or on
aesthetic philosophy.  aesthetics is a subset of larger-scale normative
frameworks.  it is not a free-floating area of thought.  aesthetic
philosophy is among the densest type of ideological thinking: existing
social norms are most thoroughly in force around definitions of that which
transcends them.  transcendence needs to be controlled, quarantined, placed
socially and politically in authorized spaces.  the business of
transcendence is one undertaken by authorized specialists in transcendence
production.  there are special buildings around where you can go to look at
or listen to outputs generated by authorized specialists in transcendence
production.  while you are visiting, you can have a Moment during which you
loose yourself.  this sense of loss of oneself is not one of freedom from
instituted social norms: it is a total projection through those norms: you
presuppose them in the act of forgetting about them.

while i think that the only coherent relation to the marxist tradition at
this point has to be predicated on closure (in the decon/heidegger/nietzsche
sense, in the "closure of western metaphysics" sense)--anything that enables
folk to relativize their social position and by extension to relativise
their responses is a good thing.  because it is only in relativizing your
responses that you can start to see the structures that shape those
responses.  these structures are indices of what binds you to what exists,
of the extent to which you reproduce it, the extent to which you are it.
it is good, i think, to be suspicous of immediacy.  it is also good not to
loose the ability to indulge immediacy.  but it is good to be suspicious of
it.

stephen

On 1/30/07, Ian Reddy <xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
>
> >one thing about certain kinds of sound, when they hit
> >you, when you are alone, for example, this perosnal
> >experience, when you hear something cool, that you
> >dont hear any hype about beforehand, and it creates
> >this separation from alienation, this curiously
> >numinous bubble, albeit momentary, until someone else
> >says, oh, you're listening to that, didnt you hear the
> >really great first album, or someone say its crap and
> >you no longer feel intimate with it even if you dont
> >care what someone else thinks. what the blogger guy
> >says makes sense in terms of emotional range only. is
> >all digital music in a sense governed by an irony
> >(related to a high level of self-consciousness) that
> >doesnt allow for the feelings such as joni mitchell
> >might sing about? does the full range of human emotion
> >demand words or demand the discarding of words?
> >anyway, its about your own fantasy formations, your
> >wildest imaginations, isnt it. what you desire.
>
> I think that in art, emotion is something either projected
> onto the work or it is something acted out by the performer.
> No work of art is a raw emotional outburst - that's impossible
> as art and music are obviously mediated through the intellect
> and already existing cultural forms.  I suggest that Joni Mitchel is
> performing her emotions through song.  Also certain sounds are
> culturally constructed as being connected to certain emotions (such as the
> connection of low droning sounds to feelings of gloom) and the artist
> often exploits these connections or we simply project them onto a
> work.  So....in brief I do think that art can provoke an emotional
> response BUT I also think the emotion we experience is drastically
> different from the emotion we speak of as being present in art, and
> probably not the same thing at all.
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
--Boundary_(ID_tG5rXMD0g+3fKnlUbyFK5g)--

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--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
> http://netlabel.qunabu.com/ -> releases -> qnb001 NN - Bugs Are
> Welcome -> 
> 07 transmiter 1
> 
> For me, this is an intensely emotional experience - it leaves me
> short of 
> breath, as though something is grabbing my gut and squeezing, not
> letting 
> me go.

Hmm.. nice track.. I didn't have that experience but for me the closest
I think I have felt to a similar sounding track is Nurse With Wound's
Soliloquy For Lilith although that technically might not be considered
microsound.

But as a baseline this transmiter track is somber. I would expect most
people to get that from it.. and is perhaps a tonality that reminds me
of other microsound artists like Oval.


> I'm saying that the kind of emotion I get from microsound music is of
> a 
> quite different character to the kind I get from say Ani DiFranco, or
> the 
> kind of passionate gypsy music that always forms the centrepiece in
> Tony 
> Gatlif's films - especially the theme music to Vengo.
> It's not even that microsound is more cerebral, because microsound
> can hit 
> my gut (I feel emotions in my gut) just as hard if I'm in the right
> mood.

I can get the hairs raised as an a occasional response.. Doesn't seem
like much microsound music has lyrical content so that'd be a big
difference from most pop music. I'd have to say that drones of the type
above feel like an outer body experience or that I'm travelling or are
in a foreign place. It's like a soundtrack to a movie about floating.

-Adrian

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 16:32:15 2007
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There was no instruction at all in any of the art schools I attended
along these lines. I know of very few alumni who are making "fine arts"
for a living... that is not to say that there aren't many that aren't
working creatively in a profession.

-adrian

--- Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> It's a shame that so many people go to these fine institutions to
> learn such wonderful skills, only to have them choked off by the
> tourniquet of business inexperience.
> 
> ~Kyle


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>one thing about certain kinds of sound, when they hit
>you, when you are alone, for example, this perosnal
>experience, when you hear something cool, that you
>dont hear any hype about beforehand, and it creates
>this separation from alienation, this curiously
>numinous bubble, albeit momentary, until someone else
>says, oh, you're listening to that, didnt you hear the
>really great first album, or someone say its crap and
>you no longer feel intimate with it even if you dont
>care what someone else thinks. what the blogger guy
>says makes sense in terms of emotional range only. is
>all digital music in a sense governed by an irony
>(related to a high level of self-consciousness) that
>doesnt allow for the feelings such as joni mitchell
>might sing about? does the full range of human emotion
>demand words or demand the discarding of words?
>anyway, its about your own fantasy formations, your
>wildest imaginations, isnt it. what you desire. 

I think that in art, emotion is something either projected
onto the work or it is something acted out by the performer.
No work of art is a raw emotional outburst - that's impossible
as art and music are obviously mediated through the intellect
and already existing cultural forms.  I suggest that Joni Mitchel is
performing her emotions through song.  Also certain sounds are
culturally constructed as being connected to certain emotions (such as the
connection of low droning sounds to feelings of gloom) and the artist
often exploits these connections or we simply project them onto a
work.  So....in brief I do think that art can provoke an emotional
response BUT I also think the emotion we experience is drastically
different from the emotion we speak of as being present in art, and
probably not the same thing at all.


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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 14:37:53 2007
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one thing about certain kinds of sound, when they hit
you, when you are alone, for example, this perosnal
experience, when you hear something cool, that you
dont hear any hype about beforehand, and it creates
this separation from alienation, this curiously
numinous bubble, albeit momentary, until someone else
says, oh, you're listening to that, didnt you hear the
really great first album, or someone say its crap and
you no longer feel intimate with it even if you dont
care what someone else thinks. what the blogger guy
says makes sense in terms of emotional range only. is
all digital music in a sense governed by an irony
(related to a high level of self-consciousness) that
doesnt allow for the feelings such as joni mitchell
might sing about? does the full range of human emotion
demand words or demand the discarding of words?
anyway, its about your own fantasy formations, your
wildest imaginations, isnt it. what you desire. 
--- Peter Worth <xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> > I find some .microsound music
> > to be highly 'emotional' but I don't have any
> conceptual framework to
> > explain where it comes from - certainly not one
> that stands up next to
> > for example Bob Lefsetz explaining why Joni
> Mitchell speaks to your
> > heart, where "beat-driven music" doesn't.
> >
> >
>
http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2007/01/27/greetings-from-to/
> >
> 
> can you give a few examples of the microsound music
> you find most
> emotional? cheers.
> 
>
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> 
> 


j.ff gbk

http://www.futurevessel.com/orphansound/

http://www.mattin.org/desetxea.html

http://www.djalma.com


 
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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 14:31:14 2007
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Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 08:30:58 -0600
From: Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Business Art (was iConsume)
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This is a valid statement.

My girlfriend just got a BFA in painting. She learned a lot about her
skills with media and concepts, and how to defend her ideas. What she
didn't learn much of were the business things: pricing her art,
networking with collectors/gallery owners, marketing herself, etc. I
believe that she was only required to take a single one-hour, half
semester course that touched on any sort of business practicalities.

It's a shame that so many people go to these fine institutions to
learn such wonderful skills, only to have them choked off by the
tourniquet of business inexperience.

~Kyle

On 1/29/07, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> "Business art is the step that comes after Art.  I started as a
> commercial artist, and I want to finish as a business artist.  After
> I did the thing called "art" or whatever it's called, I went into
> business art.  I wanted to be an Art Businessman or a Business
> Artist.  Being good in business is the most fascinating kind of art.
> During the hippie era people put down the idea of business - they'd
> say, "Money is bad," and "working is bad," but making money is art
> and working is art and good business is the best art"
>
> Andy Warhol
> The Philosophy of Andy Warhol (from A to B and Back Again), p. 92,
> softcover edition.
>
> On 25-Jan-07, at 3:16 PM, Steven McLeod wrote:
>
> > "Good marketing/advertising" is designed for one thing only and
> > that is you to give the company your cash.  They are not concerned
> > with anything else. As an artform it is manipulative and uses
> > psycholgical techniques designed to make one believe their life
> > will be better as a result of buying into the product/lifestyle,
> > sounds like a shit form of art to me, be as well saying that the
> > way governments manipulate the populase can be an artform..'spose
> > one could say that, not my asthetic tho...
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Barknecht"
> > <xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> > To: <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> > Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:36 AM
> > Subject: Re: [microsound] iConsume
> >
> >
> >> Hallo,
> >> Graham Miller hat gesagt: // Graham Miller wrote:
> >>
> >>> i just can't believe anyone of intelligence can't see marketing
> >>> as an
> >>> art form unto itself.  it's not evil.  it's only bad when it's done
> >>> poorly.  i love good advertising. apple computers has good
> >>> advertising.  they understand aesthetics. fonts. graphic design.
> >>> there is certainly not enough of it. i say more. not less.
> >>
> >> Aesthetics, fonts and graphic design are not marketing. Marketing
> >> uses
> >> these things among other things to sell products, but that doesn't
> >> make good or bad design equal to good or bad marketing.
> >>
> >> Ciao
> >> --
> >> Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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> >
> >
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-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 13:22:12 2007
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> I find some .microsound music
> to be highly 'emotional' but I don't have any conceptual framework to
> explain where it comes from - certainly not one that stands up next to
> for example Bob Lefsetz explaining why Joni Mitchell speaks to your
> heart, where "beat-driven music" doesn't.
>
> http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2007/01/27/greetings-from-to/
>

can you give a few examples of the microsound music you find most
emotional? cheers.

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 11:41:41 2007
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From: Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] miles of styles of philosophes
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Xdugef wrote:

> Do you mind if I ask you for an example of microsound music you find
> emotional.. maybe even something from the projects page? 

http://netlabel.qunabu.com/ -> releases -> qnb001 NN - Bugs Are Welcome -> 
07 transmiter 1

For me, this is an intensely emotional experience - it leaves me short of 
breath, as though something is grabbing my gut and squeezing, not letting 
me go.

> Some songs and sounds have nostalgia that could evoke emotion in some
> people and shrill sounds might induce panic etc.

It's not nostalgia. For me, in the track I mentioned above it's something 
to do with the repetition, the ever-unresolved chord, the sense of breathing...

> But are you saying that you find alot of microsound music is missing
> emotion?

I'm saying that the kind of emotion I get from microsound music is of a 
quite different character to the kind I get from say Ani DiFranco, or the 
kind of passionate gypsy music that always forms the centrepiece in Tony 
Gatlif's films - especially the theme music to Vengo.

It's not even that microsound is more cerebral, because microsound can hit 
my gut (I feel emotions in my gut) just as hard if I'm in the right mood.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 06:09:56 2007
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From: Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] miles of styles of philosophes
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Damian,

Hmm well I can't help but to think that this person's close
relationship to Joni would be a big factor in inducing emotion in them.

Do you mind if I ask you for an example of microsound music you find
emotional.. maybe even something from the projects page? 

Some songs and sounds have nostalgia that could evoke emotion in some
people and shrill sounds might induce panic etc.

But are you saying that you find alot of microsound music is missing
emotion?

Adrian

--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:

> Xdugef wrote:
> > Here's a request... define or list some ".microsound issues". Maybe
> > that will get the ball rolling in a new direction. Obviously there
> are
> > probably many issues that would apply to all music but which ones
> only
> > apply to .microsound music.
> 
> "Where's the emotion" would be my biggest. I find some .microsound
> music 
> to be highly 'emotional' but I don't have any conceptual framework to
> 
> explain where it comes from - certainly not one that stands up next
> to 
> for example Bob Lefsetz explaining why Joni Mitchell speaks to your 
> heart, where "beat-driven music" doesn't.
> 
>
http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2007/01/27/greetings-from-to/
> 
> -- 
> Damian Stewart
> +64 27 305 4107
> 
> f r e y
> live music with machines
> http://www.frey.co.nz
> http://www.myspace.com/freyed
> 
> 
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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 03:53:10 2007
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Xdugef wrote:
> Here's a request... define or list some ".microsound issues". Maybe
> that will get the ball rolling in a new direction. Obviously there are
> probably many issues that would apply to all music but which ones only
> apply to .microsound music.

"Where's the emotion" would be my biggest. I find some .microsound music 
to be highly 'emotional' but I don't have any conceptual framework to 
explain where it comes from - certainly not one that stands up next to 
for example Bob Lefsetz explaining why Joni Mitchell speaks to your 
heart, where "beat-driven music" doesn't.

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/archives/2007/01/27/greetings-from-to/

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed


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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 02:55:29 2007
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hi

> During the hippie era people put down the idea of business - they'd
> say, "Money is bad," and "working is bad," but making money is art
> and working is art and good business is the best art"
>
> Andy Warhol

warhol is the perfect figure to bring up in this discussion. most
would agree he was a sucessful artist [with all the conflicting
criteria that implies]. most would also agree he was a successful
businessman [his 60s studio was called 'the factory' for more than
it's past use].

business was a part of his art, definitely. one thread in his
multi-dimentional artwork is the dehumanizing alienation of consumer
life.

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 02:22:48 2007
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 21:22:32 -0500
From: Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [microsound] Business Art (was iConsume)
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"Business art is the step that comes after Art.  I started as a  
commercial artist, and I want to finish as a business artist.  After  
I did the thing called "art" or whatever it's called, I went into  
business art.  I wanted to be an Art Businessman or a Business  
Artist.  Being good in business is the most fascinating kind of art.   
During the hippie era people put down the idea of business - they'd  
say, "Money is bad," and "working is bad," but making money is art  
and working is art and good business is the best art"

Andy Warhol
The Philosophy of Andy Warhol (from A to B and Back Again), p. 92,  
softcover edition.

On 25-Jan-07, at 3:16 PM, Steven McLeod wrote:

> "Good marketing/advertising" is designed for one thing only and  
> that is you to give the company your cash.  They are not concerned  
> with anything else. As an artform it is manipulative and uses  
> psycholgical techniques designed to make one believe their life  
> will be better as a result of buying into the product/lifestyle,  
> sounds like a shit form of art to me, be as well saying that the  
> way governments manipulate the populase can be an artform..'spose  
> one could say that, not my asthetic tho...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Barknecht"  
> <xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [microsound] iConsume
>
>
>> Hallo,
>> Graham Miller hat gesagt: // Graham Miller wrote:
>>
>>> i just can't believe anyone of intelligence can't see marketing  
>>> as an
>>> art form unto itself.  it's not evil.  it's only bad when it's done
>>> poorly.  i love good advertising. apple computers has good
>>> advertising.  they understand aesthetics. fonts. graphic design.
>>> there is certainly not enough of it. i say more. not less.
>>
>> Aesthetics, fonts and graphic design are not marketing. Marketing  
>> uses
>> these things among other things to sell products, but that doesn't
>> make good or bad design equal to good or bad marketing.
>>
>> Ciao
>> -- 
>> Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.7/647 - Release Date:  
>> 23/01/2007 08:02
>>
>
>
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From ???@??? Tue Jan 30 02:06:45 2007
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Could you be more specific? Are you referring to the concept of the
"refrain" in A Thousand Plateaus, or something else?
~David

On 1/29/07, v dish <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Has anbody here read Deleuze's theory of music? If so can you suggest any
> interpretations of this aspect of his philosophy, as I'm not finding it very
> accessible.
> Thanks!
>
> Sidasah
>
> On 1/29/07, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> > Are you really responding to my post?
> >
> > It was a serious question that was not asked out of anger (despite any
> > of my not so recent posts). Since this is the ".microsound list" I
> > thought it would be more relevant to the list to talk about how a
> > philosophy.. any philosophy actually applies to a style or how one
> > structures their music.
> >
> > Is that wrong of me to ask??? What is an example of a  "microsound
> > issue"? I really want to know.
> >
> > Or maybe I'm missing the obvious.. take a recording of protesters, chop
> > it up into indecipherable bits and call it ode to Marx?
> >
> > But to address some of issues you bring up... if consumerism is an
> > issue then I suppose it is an unavoidable fact that if you use current
> > technology and upgrade and add to your arsenal new gear on a regular
> > basis then you might be considered a supporter of consumerism and
> > therefore capitalism.
> >
> > Solution.. buy old/used equipment, use open source software and give
> > your music away... move off the grid.. ferment soy beeans.. I dunno.
> >
> > Personally as much as I can I use "recycled" gear but I have money so I
> > buy new shit too.. but I also giveaway alot of music as well.
> >
> > Is it an issue for anybody that Apple sells computers to the DOD?
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> > --- xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
> >
> > > > Here's a request... define or list some ".microsound issues". Maybe
> > > > that will get the ball rolling in a new direction. Obviously there
> > > are
> > > > probably many issues that would apply to all music but which ones
> > > only
> > > > apply to .microsound music.
> > > >
> > > > Adrian
> > > >
> > >
> > > I don't see a need for this constraint. I read more than I post
> > > because
> > > there is rarely little more I can add. But to me all forms of art are
> > > currently so dominated and manipulated by capitalism as it operates
> > > today
> > > that I see the kind of posts that Kim is making to be acutely
> > > relevant and
> > > they make me think contextually about what I do. It's not purely
> > > political, it's socio-political and the environment in which we
> > > create art
> > > is so dominated by US socio-political imperialism that the worth of
> > > such
> > > discussion shouldn't be dismissed so easily. Consumerism is the
> > > prevailing
> > > religion in my country (Australia - the other developed country that
> > > rejected Kyoto).
> > >
> > > The topics of the posts are quite transparent. It's easy not to open
> > > them
> > > if you don't want to engage in the debate. I don't understand the
> > > anger at
> > > all.
> > >
> > > It's not like there isn't a choice or there isn't room for discussion
> > > about the wider social context as well as the narrower .microsund
> > > minutae.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
>
>

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Has anbody here read Deleuze's theory of music? If so can you suggest any
interpretations of this aspect of his philosophy, as I'm not finding it very
accessible.
Thanks!

Sidasah

On 1/29/07, Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
> Are you really responding to my post?
>
> It was a serious question that was not asked out of anger (despite any
> of my not so recent posts). Since this is the ".microsound list" I
> thought it would be more relevant to the list to talk about how a
> philosophy.. any philosophy actually applies to a style or how one
> structures their music.
>
> Is that wrong of me to ask??? What is an example of a  "microsound
> issue"? I really want to know.
>
> Or maybe I'm missing the obvious.. take a recording of protesters, chop
> it up into indecipherable bits and call it ode to Marx?
>
> But to address some of issues you bring up... if consumerism is an
> issue then I suppose it is an unavoidable fact that if you use current
> technology and upgrade and add to your arsenal new gear on a regular
> basis then you might be considered a supporter of consumerism and
> therefore capitalism.
>
> Solution.. buy old/used equipment, use open source software and give
> your music away... move off the grid.. ferment soy beeans.. I dunno.
>
> Personally as much as I can I use "recycled" gear but I have money so I
> buy new shit too.. but I also giveaway alot of music as well.
>
> Is it an issue for anybody that Apple sells computers to the DOD?
>
> Adrian
>
> --- xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:
>
> > > Here's a request... define or list some ".microsound issues". Maybe
> > > that will get the ball rolling in a new direction. Obviously there
> > are
> > > probably many issues that would apply to all music but which ones
> > only
> > > apply to .microsound music.
> > >
> > > Adrian
> > >
> >
> > I don't see a need for this constraint. I read more than I post
> > because
> > there is rarely little more I can add. But to me all forms of art are
> > currently so dominated and manipulated by capitalism as it operates
> > today
> > that I see the kind of posts that Kim is making to be acutely
> > relevant and
> > they make me think contextually about what I do. It's not purely
> > political, it's socio-political and the environment in which we
> > create art
> > is so dominated by US socio-political imperialism that the worth of
> > such
> > discussion shouldn't be dismissed so easily. Consumerism is the
> > prevailing
> > religion in my country (Australia - the other developed country that
> > rejected Kyoto).
> >
> > The topics of the posts are quite transparent. It's easy not to open
> > them
> > if you don't want to engage in the debate. I don't understand the
> > anger at
> > all.
> >
> > It's not like there isn't a choice or there isn't room for discussion
> > about the wider social context as well as the narrower .microsund
> > minutae.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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From ???@??? Mon Jan 29 22:32:46 2007
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Are you really responding to my post?

It was a serious question that was not asked out of anger (despite any
of my not so recent posts). Since this is the ".microsound list" I
thought it would be more relevant to the list to talk about how a
philosophy.. any philosophy actually applies to a style or how one
structures their music. 

Is that wrong of me to ask??? What is an example of a  "microsound
issue"? I really want to know.

Or maybe I'm missing the obvious.. take a recording of protesters, chop
it up into indecipherable bits and call it ode to Marx?

But to address some of issues you bring up... if consumerism is an
issue then I suppose it is an unavoidable fact that if you use current
technology and upgrade and add to your arsenal new gear on a regular
basis then you might be considered a supporter of consumerism and
therefore capitalism.

Solution.. buy old/used equipment, use open source software and give
your music away... move off the grid.. ferment soy beeans.. I dunno.

Personally as much as I can I use "recycled" gear but I have money so I
buy new shit too.. but I also giveaway alot of music as well.

Is it an issue for anybody that Apple sells computers to the DOD?

Adrian

--- xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:

> > Here's a request... define or list some ".microsound issues". Maybe
> > that will get the ball rolling in a new direction. Obviously there
> are
> > probably many issues that would apply to all music but which ones
> only
> > apply to .microsound music.
> >
> > Adrian
> >
> 
> I don't see a need for this constraint. I read more than I post
> because
> there is rarely little more I can add. But to me all forms of art are
> currently so dominated and manipulated by capitalism as it operates
> today
> that I see the kind of posts that Kim is making to be acutely
> relevant and
> they make me think contextually about what I do. It's not purely
> political, it's socio-political and the environment in which we
> create art
> is so dominated by US socio-political imperialism that the worth of
> such
> discussion shouldn't be dismissed so easily. Consumerism is the
> prevailing
> religion in my country (Australia - the other developed country that
> rejected Kyoto).
> 
> The topics of the posts are quite transparent. It's easy not to open
> them
> if you don't want to engage in the debate. I don't understand the
> anger at
> all.
> 
> It's not like there isn't a choice or there isn't room for discussion
> about the wider social context as well as the narrower .microsund
> minutae.
> 
> 
> 


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From ???@??? Mon Jan 29 18:43:22 2007
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Here's a request... define or list some ".microsound issues". Maybe
that will get the ball rolling in a new direction. Obviously there are
probably many issues that would apply to all music but which ones only
apply to .microsound music.

Adrian

--- Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> hey, if anyone wants to discuss .microsound issues from a post- 
> colonial or feminist or queer or post-modern or Straussian neocon or 
> 
> whatever viewpoint that's fine too...
> but boysenberry is cool too
> 
> 
> 
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From ???@??? Mon Jan 29 18:13:06 2007
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hey, if anyone wants to discuss .microsound issues from a post- 
colonial or feminist or queer or post-modern or Straussian neocon or  
whatever viewpoint that's fine too...
but boysenberry is cool too



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Subject: [microsound] L'oeuvre ouverte | PureData Convention '07 - Call for
 Proposals
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[VERSION FRANÇAISE CI-DESSOUS]

L'oeuvre ouverte | PureData Convention '07 - Call for Proposals

* August 21st-26th, 2007 - Montreal, Canada

* Deadline for artworks/performances and workshops: February 28th 2007
* Deadline for papers: March 31st 2007

http://convention.puredata.org/

The PureData Convention Steering Committee is now accepting proposals
for participation in L'oeuvre ouverte (the Open Work), the 2nd
International PureData Convention. L'oeuvre ouverte invites an open
relation between the artwork and the public as well as open attitudes
and practices in the fields of programming, artistic creation and
scientific research. It will bring together artists, developers and
writers who develop, use and reflect on PureData.

The Convention will acknowledge the broad range of artistic and
technical disciplines that make use of the software and will address
questions of openness and accessibility. It will provide a theoretical
and artistic context for the understanding of the aesthetics and
politics of Free / Open Source Software culture.

Selected proposals will reflect varied perspectives and outlooks on
the artistic possibilities of free software and hardware that emanate
from a wide-ranging community. These include, but are not restricted
to: connections to art, science and society as well as demonstrations of
innovative and intuitive interactions. We encourage a wide range of
submissions from all levels of proficiency with the software as well
as from emergent and diverse PureData communities. Submissions will be
evaluated by peer review committees.

Proposals are sought in the following categories:

Artwork/Performances:
The selected artworks should make use of PureData.  All forms of audio
and visual art including real-time interactive works, improvisations
with technology, instrumental/electroacoustic mixes, sound
installations, performances, network art, robotics, software art and
interdisciplinary work are welcome.

Papers and posters:
We are accepting papers that offer varying perspectives on technical,
social, cultural as well as art theory/historical aspects of PureData
or the aesthetics and politics of Free / Open Source Software (FOSS)
culture.

Demos:
Externals, performance patches, packages of abstractions, sensors and
physical computing interfaces, etc.

Workshops:
Beginner to advanced level hands-on workshops, installation help, DIY etc.

::applicants are invited to submit in multiple categories::

please read the application guidelines here:
http://convention.puredata.org/guidelines

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

L'oeuvre ouverte | Congrès PureData 2007 - Appel de propositions

* Du 21 au 26 août 2007, Montréal, Canada

* Appel à participation ? Jusqu'au 28 février pour les projets
artistiques et les ateliers, le 31 mars pour les exposés.

http://convention.puredata.org/convention07-fr

Le comité organisateur du Congrès de PureData accepte maintenant les
propositions en vue de participer à L'oeuvre ouverte, 2e Congrès
international de PureData. L'oeuvre ouverte propose une relation
d'ouverture entre l'oeuvre d'art et le public et encourage les
attitudes et les pratiques ouvertes dans les domaines de la
programmation, de la création artistique et de la recherché
scientifique. Le congrès réunira artistes, développeurs et théoriciens
qui sont les créateurs de PureData, qui exploitent le logiciel ou en
font l'objet de leur réflexion.

Le Congrès témoignera de toute la gamme des disciplines artistiques et
techniques qui exploitent le logiciel libre et s'intéressera aux
questions d'ouverture et d'accessibilité. Il servira de cadre
théorique et artistique pour la compréhension des aspects esthétiques
et politiques propres à la culture du logiciel libre.

Les propositions retenues refléteront les nombreuses perspectives que
le logiciel libre et ses applications, émanant d'une collectivité
diversifiée, offrent en matière de possibilités artistiques, qu'il
s'agisse, notamment, de jonctions établies entre l'art, la science et
la société ou de la présentation d'interactions innovatrices et
intuitives. Les propositions les plus diverses sont les bienvenues,
peu importe le degré de compétence de l'auteur à l'égard du logiciel.
L'invitation est lancée, entre autres, aux collectifs de PureData en
émergence. Les propositions seront évaluées par des comités de pairs.

Les propositions doivent se situer dans les catégories suivantes:

Oeuvres d'art/installations:
les ?uvres de toute nature, produites à l'aide de PureData, soit toute
forme d'art audio et visuel, y compris les ?uvres interactives en
temps réel, les improvisations technologiques, les pièces
instrumentales et électroacoustiques, les installations sonores, les
performances, l'art robotique et télématique et les ?uvres
multidisciplinaires.

Exposés et affiche:
communications apportant diverses perspectives sur les aspects
techniques, sociaux, culturels, l'histoire de l'art de PureData, de
même que sur les aspects esthétiques et politiques de la culture du
logiciel libre.

Démonstrations:
périphériques, outils de performance, extras, senseurs et interfaces, etc.

Ateliers:
travaux pratiques de niveau débutant à avancé, aide aux installations,
activités manuelles, etc.

SVP lisez les lignes directrices:
http://convention.puredata.org/guidelines-fr

::Les intéressés sont invités à faire des propositions de nature multiple::
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From ???@??? Sun Jan 28 23:05:29 2007
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Subject: [microsound] Microsound List Archive...
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Greets-

Just wanted to let folks know I did one of my once-in-a-blue-moon
updates of the microsound list archive, available here:

<http://www.propheticdesire.us/menu.html>

Only limited checking on my part, so if you find something broken,
please let me  know.

Enjoy! vatic

<xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>

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From ???@??? Sun Jan 28 21:48:18 2007
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Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2007 10:48:04 +1300
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Subject: Re: [microsound] a primer in marxist asthetics
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john saylor wrote:

> in other words, it 'arrives' when
> more than one person makes microsound music that is multi-leveled and
> evocative. small packets of culture develop here and there ...

Isn't this happening already?

> so you see, it has nothing to do with television for me. and with the
> internet as a distribution channel, no one from a major corporation
> [record label] needs to be involved at all ...

I think microsound if it appears on television will have appeared in 
various other far more obvious places first.

> hmm, but what about if the wild-eyed free-jazz cat is your [hungry]
> friend? does that change your answer?

It's usually me, actually. And no, I kinda like dumpster diving.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] post-globalization socialist art
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> 3. Theoretically speaking, what could a new
> post-globalization, socialist art look like?   What
> would decidedly be its tenor, its thrust, at this
> point?  Does a kind of melancholic glitch 'space' go
> beyond a humanistic soulfulness and actually challenge
> hegemony, at the level of the imaginary?  Is
> singularity important (or rather how could singularity
> work without becoming the Great Author of the Work)?


I don't think you can impose a top-down methodology on to the  
development of cultural work
most of the time the process takes on a more viral form anyway
one person starts something
and others follow with mimetic content
which then breeds other derivations
-----------------------------------------------
I see collaboration having more of a role in the future
this is the basis of my 'Emergent Content' workshops
the content is brought about by a group of people all shaping the  
materials into a single form
which btw is an exciting process to watch
in this process all the participants vote on a particular bit of content
which then helps determine whether or not it gets a chance to 'breed'
the process uses a simple genetic algorithm
which means the resulting content is formed by the 'fitness function'  
imposed by the group
not by any one individual
I see this as one possible model for a post-globalization, socialist  
process

and it is already taking place in open source development and Wiki- 
styled content
where the content is shaped by many hands
all adding their unique perspective to the mix


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One of the most interesting philosophers of aesthetics I've read is
Stefan Morawski, whose book:  _Inquiries into the Fundamentals of
Aesthetics_ (MIT Press, 1974) is the best english language statement of
his thinking.

I've uploaded a bunch of his essays to the repository, some more recent
and others ("Artistic Value," "Expression") overlapping the contents of
the book above.

Perhaps some will find them an worthwhile read.

vatic

<xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>

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hi

On 1/28/07, Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
> I think microsound on a television ad would be a good /indication/ that
> microsound had 'arrived', yes.

arrived as a corpse!

i think this is an indication of where we diverge. if we can equate
artistic maturity with 'arriving', i would say it arrives when its
'language' is sufficiently nuanced to have more than one person doing
meaningful work within the language. in other words, it 'arrives' when
more than one person makes microsound music that is multi-leveled and
evocative. small packets of culture develop here and there ...

so you see, it has nothing to do with television for me. and with the
internet as a distribution channel, no one from a major corporation
[record label] needs to be involved at all ...

> Do we care more that the wild-eyed free-jazz cat is rewarded for his
> efforts, or that his efforts reach the rest of the world and affect change?
> I think the latter.

hmm, but what about if the wild-eyed free-jazz cat is your [hungry]
friend? does that change your answer?

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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john saylor wrote:

> ok- sure. that argument is very sensible.
> maybe i missed something- but why do we care that  advertisers are
> interested in art [as another means to manipulate consumers]: is that
> how we measure art? economically?

First of all - for anyone going 'oh sigh, Marxism', Marxism actually has 
little to do with self-righteous middle-class student protestors, or the 
Soviet Union, and a lot to do with a pretty solid framework for 
understanding how an industrial or post-industrial economy (ie ours) 
operates. For an updated version of Marxism that takes the IT industry into 
account I can thoroughly recommend "A Hacker Manifesto" by McKenzie Wark. 
It paints possibly the best picture of what the employer/employee 
relationship feels like if you're an IT professional, while (from memory, 
it's been a while since I read it) taking into account the open source 
movement and other interesting bits of digital culture that have emerged 
recently.

Having got that out of the way, if you read the primer on Marxist 
aesthetics that Kim posted on the website (under .microsound 
repository/miscellaneous/Reading), one of the questions raised was how to 
interpret a particular paragraph on the place of art in the world. Two 
possible interpretations are outlined (on Page 10). One interpretation puts 
art as something that arises wholly from the economic/material world, thus 
irreducible to the economic/material world, and thus not important in 
influencing those who currently hold power in our world. The other 
interpretation puts art in a position where it is capable of influencing 
the economic/material world, and thus capable of affecting change in 'the 
real world'.

> to some people, everything in their lives is valued according to its
> worth in a currency. but isn't there so much more to being alive than
> collecting money? esp. for 'creative' people.

Yes, but that's not my point. Here's an analogy: one of the strongest (IMO) 
ways of making the environmental movement a more powerful force for 
affecting change is by adopting the language of accounting and then turning 
it back on itself. If you can put a dollar value on a cubic metre of clean 
air, then you can put a dollar cost on polluting that cubic metre of clean 
air, and thus you can write environmental costs into accounting sheets in 
ways that businesspeople understand how to deal with. Or take this example 
here: http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/003255.html .

I'm not saying that art has to have an impact on the economy, or that it 
should be valued by its worth in currency - I'm just saying that it *can*, 
and such an analysis if performed could prove hugely useful in, for 
example, convincing rich people to fund art projects.

>> The wild-eyed free-jazz cats put on a gig,
> [deletions]
>> and next thing you know something of the essence of the
>> wild-eyed free-jazz music (mutated and translated but still there) 
>> shows up
>> on prime-time television selling toothpaste.
> 
> sure- to grab the glitchy audience ...

No, not at all.

Go listen to 'Don't Tell Me' by Madonna. Notice how enormously it features 
the glitchy cut-up guitar. But this is not a glitchy work, and not designed 
to 'grab the glitchy audience' - rather, the producers of the track chose 
that one particular aesthetic as a way of hooking in the straight pop 
audience to a fresh sound.

Do you think the producers of 'Don't Tell Me' would've dared do this had 
there not been a significant body of pre-existing glitch work, that 
doubtless they or some of their more out-there music-geek friends played 
them at some stage? It's all networking.

> is this artistic sucess? does it mean microsound music has 'arrived'
> once it's used as a soundtrack for a television advertisement?

I think microsound on a television ad would be a good /indication/ that 
microsound had 'arrived', yes. Ads tend to be quite conservative. But I 
don't think that placement on a television advertisement could ever in 
itself bring about the 'arrival' of microsound.

> your wild-eyed free-jazz cat is still dumpster diving for dinner ...

Do we care more that the wild-eyed free-jazz cat is rewarded for his 
efforts, or that his efforts reach the rest of the world and affect change? 
I think the latter.

Besides, I currently earn a very enormous hourly wage for my design job, 
and I still dumpster dive for my dinner sometimes.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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this is an excellent discussion, imo. 

i wanted to provoke a slightly different vantage point
into this. 

it more operates around a cluster of questions, that
have to do with the present:
 

1. is the digital era a revolution culturally (akin to
the industrial revolution)? Or a shift
technologically. In other words, do things like JIT
(just-in-time) technologies make an extraordinary
difference to the culture of capitalism, or represent
a kind of ramping up (a kind of hyper capitalism)? 

2. As Negri & Hardt argue in Empire, the development
of today's Neo-Liberal order -- Globalization --state
was specifically created by the ruling class to
essentially push back the working class and
post-colonial self-determination struggles which were
making popular, mass inroads into such things as
quality of life issues (healthcare, education, etc.
etc), as well as simply the wage.  So, this communist
possibility was 'sensed' by the politicos/economists
of the ruling class and it was beaten back, stripped
clean at its roots, so as to allow for "unfettered
markets". The first structural adjustment being Sept
11, 1972 in Chile, which installed not only Pinochet
but also let the  "chicago school of economics" run
with the ball. This 'school' was the first imprint of
the new Neo-Liberal economic system (hallmarks being
no welfare state, no 'dangerous' workers unions,
environmental protections, reduction of education
programs, etc as much as possible), to be put into
place. So, now almost forty years later, with
globalization -- as a cultural order or general
concept -- considered not only "inevitable" but
virtually the-way-things-are by most everyday people
in europe and north america, I wonder where is the new
point of rupture or change? In wildcat strikes in
China (thousands are occuring every month), in mass
uprisings in the global south (Oaxaca being a recent
example)?  There is a disparate quality to all these
actions, as if against the police state of the
Neo-Liberal order are events which are acts of
resistance and genuine desire for moral sense, but
which are not nonetheless, 'enough' to create a sense
of global momentum across regions.  Why are they not
'enough'? The media? Or are we -- the 'first' world --
so invested/socialized/scared into our corners of the
hi-lo ghettos of the Terrordome vis-a-vis the non-stop
sex-war-shampoo Spectacle that we can't possibly
imagine 'others' as in any way our brothers and
sisters (to use decidedly old fashioned terminology). 

3. Theoretically speaking, what could a new
post-globalization, socialist art look like?   What
would decidedly be its tenor, its thrust, at this
point?  Does a kind of melancholic glitch 'space' go
beyond a humanistic soulfulness and actually challenge
hegemony, at the level of the imaginary?  Is
singularity important (or rather how could singularity
work without becoming the Great Author of the Work)?

-Andrew

 there would
> be difficulty in  
> 'opening' european markets due to the proliferation
> of workers unions
> which was an outgrowth of and directly influenced by
> communist/ 
> socialist/anarchist/marxist (I'll call this
> 'leftist' for ease of  
> typing) parties
> so the US devised this program called the Marshall
> Plan
> which had two purposes:
> one was the help rebuild europe (in our own
> likeness) thereby  
> establishing markets for the US overproduction of
> goods
> the other was to bust the unions and discourage
> 'leftist' political  
> philosophy from spreading in europe
> thus making it cheaper for american businesses to
> operate there
> 



 
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Have an item listed on ebay. Email me off-list if you are interested.  
Thanks.

http://tinyurl.com/2n8k5m

Dom.


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From ???@??? Sat Jan 27 23:56:24 2007
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From: john saylor <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
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hi

> On 1/26/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > maybe some interesting protest recordings could form the basis of a
> > new microsound project?

On 1/26/07, john saylor <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> i'm gonna be in boston- so i'll bring my edirol r1 and see if i can
> grab anything interesting ...

posted 15 mins of the protest rally:
http://or8.net/~johns/misc/20070127.mp3

there's a nice chant several minutes in, and then the bells in a
nearby church started ringing, making a nice mix.

the only processing i did on the file was a fade in and out, and i
brought the levels down a tiny bit in the middle when it was clipping.

if people want to 'reprocess' this audio- it's ok with me. i don't
know how long i'll leave it up at its present location. prolly at
least a month, maybe more.

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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boysenberry?

>
>
>
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From ???@??? Sat Jan 27 16:57:14 2007
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Unfortunately Baskin Robins (this list) is now only selling only
flavor.. guess which one it is?


--- Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:

> v dish wrote:
> > why can't this list be geared toward a philosophical discussion of
> digital
> > and post-digital audio culture without discussion of marxism?
> 
> because that's like saying why can't this list be geared toward a 
> philosophical discussion of icecream without discussing boysenberry
> flavour.


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IMHO, this list has long gone off-topic...

Hernan

www.cooptrol.com



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hi

On 1/27/07, Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
> my point is that if advertising is an important
> economic force (which it is), and if advertisers are interested in art
> (which they appear to be), then art does have an effect on the economy.

ok- sure. that argument is very sensible.
maybe i missed something- but why do we care that  advertisers are
interested in art [as another means to manipulate consumers]: is that
how we measure art? economically?

to some people, everything in their lives is valued according to its
worth in a currency. but isn't there so much more to being alive than
collecting money? esp. for 'creative' people.

> The wild-eyed free-jazz cats put on a gig,
[deletions]
> and next thing you know something of the essence of the
> wild-eyed free-jazz music (mutated and translated but still there) shows up
> on prime-time television selling toothpaste.

sure- to grab the glitchy audience ...

is this artistic sucess? does it mean microsound music has 'arrived'
once it's used as a soundtrack for a television advertisement?

your wild-eyed free-jazz cat is still dumpster diving for dinner ...

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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No one did it better than Stockhausen :). Check the 3rd region of Hymnen.

//p
http://www.interdisciplina.org/00.0/

On 1/26/07, Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Yeah, especially since the best microsound is in the mind...tools
> can't express it like I think it.
>
> Hah!
>
> Let's do a remix of the Soviet National Anthem contest.
>
> (In jest,)
>
> ~Kyle

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Kim Cascone wrote:
> a .pdf of the first chapter only
> was uploaded to the repository
> in the reading dir.

Thanks for that Kim.

This makes me think about the "creative industry" - design, advertising, 
and film and television production. Given as how almost all manufacturing 
work now happens overseas, it could be argued that these are becoming the 
most economically important forces in the Western world.

Now, I work in this industry (with a small company that makes interactive 
museum installations), and having spoken to the owners of several of the 
most successful companies here in Wellington, New Zealand, it strikes me 
that one of the things that they all have in common is an interest in art. 
This makes a lot of sense - advertisers are often looking for different 
ways of enticing people to experience their ads, and artists are often 
trying to create works that allow listeners or viewers to experience 
something new or different, or at least in a different way.

Whether or not advertising is art is a separate matter and one I'm not 
really interested in, but my point is that if advertising is an important 
economic force (which it is), and if advertisers are interested in art 
(which they appear to be), then art does have an effect on the economy. 
Even if it's indirect, it's there. The wild-eyed free-jazz cats put on a 
gig, someone from the audience goes home later that night and composes some 
electronica in response; he plays it to his buddy who writes soundtracks 
for Saatchi & Saatchi, his buddy goes off later that week and writes some 
new music for the ad he's working on, having drawn inspiration from his 
mate's electronica, and next thing you know something of the essence of the 
wild-eyed free-jazz music (mutated and translated but still there) shows up 
on prime-time television selling toothpaste.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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From ???@??? Sat Jan 27 12:33:49 2007
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v dish wrote:
> why can't this list be geared toward a philosophical discussion of digital
> and post-digital audio culture without discussion of marxism?

because that's like saying why can't this list be geared toward a 
philosophical discussion of icecream without discussing boysenberry flavour.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
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http://www.frey.co.nz
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didnt think that was the point Kim's making,
discussing different philosophical outlooks / pov's
would make for a more diverse and richer discussion.
sounds like things could be getting
argumentative....this might not help....and there is a
lot of contempt at times on this list, i've noted this
and its a drag and unnecessary. dont feel
unnecessarily excluded.....

and yes swapping mp3's, myspace stuff might be better
done on the announce list or off list to maintain a
certain focus. i'm subbed to the announce list too....

best

ben 

--- Xdugef <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> Seems to me that only certain philosophies are
> acceptable (especially
> ones having to do with marxists povs).. and
> obviously if yours is not a
> supported one then yours must be that of an
> anti-intellectual.
> 
> 
> Style
> The way in which something is said, done, expressed,
> or performed: a
> style of speech and writing. 
> The combination of distinctive features of literary
> or artistic
> expression, execution, or performance characterizing
> a particular
> person, group, school, or era. 
> 
> Philosophy
> 1. the rational investigation of the truths and
> principles of being,
> knowledge, or conduct.  
> 2. any of the three branches, namely natural
> philosophy, moral
> philosophy, and metaphysical philosophy, that are
> accepted as composing
> this study.  
> 
> The difference seems clear to me.
> 
> --- Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> wrote:
> 
> > On 1/26/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> wrote:
> > > the purpose of microsound is to foster
> philosophical discourse
> > about
> > > digital music
> > 
> > The purpose is described on the microsound
> homepage as follows:
> > 
> > .microsound is an unmediated mailing list oriented
> toward discussion
> > of the styles of digital and post-digital music
> promulgated by the
> > proliferation and widespread adoption of digital
> signal processing
> > (dsp) tools.
> > 
> > My reading of "styles" is somewhat narrower than
> "philosophical
> > discourse" -- not that I have anything against
> philosophical
> > discourse. What about the rest of you?
> 
> 
>
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> 



 
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From ???@??? Sat Jan 27 05:11:25 2007
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why can't this list be geared toward a philosophical discussion of digital
and post-digital audio culture without discussion of marxism?

On 1/26/07, Jon <xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx.xx> wrote:
>
> > if you want the fanboy sort of thing
> > I implore you to unsub from microsound and go start your own list
> > on yahoogroups
> > there you will be free to announce your new mp3s, post software
> > reviews, chat about all the cool new CD packaging
> > and send each other MySpace URL's
> > ad nauseam
> >
> > I'm sorry to keep repeating this over and over but...
> > that is not why the founders started the microsound list
> >
> > rigorous discussions on digital aesthetics are welcomed and
> > encouraged here
> > you want fluff? go elsewhere
>
> whether or not this is in reference to my previous post, i would like
> to state that:
>
> 1) as stated, i am interested in theory and philosophy myself, but i
> also believe there are better, more rigorous and generally useful
> forums for that;
> 2) i am not 'anti-intellectual'... in fact, i am pro-intellectual, if
> such a thing exists, which is why i find the piecemeal nature of the
> marxist banter here unbecoming;
> 3) i am definitely not a fanboy and suspect many of the people here
> who have a problem with the torrent of karl aren't either... i just
> want intelligent discussion of music, not marxist analyses of the
> middle class as they relate to the apple iphone.
>
> i hope nobody is taking my (or most other peoples' constructively
> critical) comments personally.  in the spirit of pro-intellectualism,
> we should be able to discuss these things without getting upset, right?
>
> - jon.
>
>
>
>
> ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
> dizzydonor.org
>
>
>
--Boundary_(ID_z+3XZRSj/ky3W2fLMRCQuQ)--

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> if you want the fanboy sort of thing
> I implore you to unsub from microsound and go start your own list  
> on yahoogroups
> there you will be free to announce your new mp3s, post software  
> reviews, chat about all the cool new CD packaging
> and send each other MySpace URL's
> ad nauseam
>
> I'm sorry to keep repeating this over and over but...
> that is not why the founders started the microsound list
>
> rigorous discussions on digital aesthetics are welcomed and  
> encouraged here
> you want fluff? go elsewhere

whether or not this is in reference to my previous post, i would like  
to state that:

1) as stated, i am interested in theory and philosophy myself, but i  
also believe there are better, more rigorous and generally useful  
forums for that;
2) i am not 'anti-intellectual'... in fact, i am pro-intellectual, if  
such a thing exists, which is why i find the piecemeal nature of the  
marxist banter here unbecoming;
3) i am definitely not a fanboy and suspect many of the people here  
who have a problem with the torrent of karl aren't either... i just  
want intelligent discussion of music, not marxist analyses of the  
middle class as they relate to the apple iphone.

i hope nobody is taking my (or most other peoples' constructively  
critical) comments personally.  in the spirit of pro-intellectualism,  
we should be able to discuss these things without getting upset, right?

- jon.




.... ... ... ... ... ... ...
dizzydonor.org

--Boundary_(ID_LN218IbCkrqINEihTP3ikg)--

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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 18:29:42 -0600
From: Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] [ot] jan 27 protest
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Yeah, especially since the best microsound is in the mind...tools
can't express it like I think it.

Hah!

Let's do a remix of the Soviet National Anthem contest.

(In jest,)

~Kyle

On 1/26/07, Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> one might well conclude that the tools themselves are off-topic -- or
> at best, peripheral.
>
-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
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On 1/26/07, Luke Iannini (pd) <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> hahahahahhaha go off on a tangent to talk about the R1.  Come on. That's funny.

Well, if the list is billed as:

"an unmediated mailing list oriented toward discussion of the styles
of digital and post-digital music promulgated by the proliferation and
widespread adoption of digital signal processing (dsp) tools",

one might well conclude that the tools themselves are off-topic -- or
at best, peripheral.

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 23:17:56 2007
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hahahahahhaha go off on a tangent to talk about the R1.  Come on. That's funny.

On 1/26/07, Kevin Paul <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> at risk for castigation for going off on a tangent, how do you like
> the edirol r1?  i'm going to istanbul in april and am considering
> purchase of a microsized recording device.  tia.
>
> kevin paul
> abq, nm
>
> >
> > i'm gonna be in boston- so i'll bring my edirol r1 and see if i can
> > grab anything interesting ...
> >
> > --
> > \js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
>
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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 23:08:25 2007
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Awsome!

Lets get a project going so we can possibly redirect the vibe on this 
list which seems to be veering all over the place of late...


aLEKs


On Jan 26, 2007, at 5:59 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

> a .pdf of the first chapter only
> was uploaded to the repository
> in the reading dir.
>
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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 22:59:49 2007
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a .pdf of the first chapter only
was uploaded to the repository
in the reading dir.

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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 21:59:39 2007
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Seems to me that only certain philosophies are acceptable (especially
ones having to do with marxists povs).. and obviously if yours is not a
supported one then yours must be that of an anti-intellectual.


Style
The way in which something is said, done, expressed, or performed: a
style of speech and writing. 
The combination of distinctive features of literary or artistic
expression, execution, or performance characterizing a particular
person, group, school, or era. 

Philosophy
1. the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being,
knowledge, or conduct.  
2. any of the three branches, namely natural philosophy, moral
philosophy, and metaphysical philosophy, that are accepted as composing
this study.  

The difference seems clear to me.

--- Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> On 1/26/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > the purpose of microsound is to foster philosophical discourse
> about
> > digital music
> 
> The purpose is described on the microsound homepage as follows:
> 
> .microsound is an unmediated mailing list oriented toward discussion
> of the styles of digital and post-digital music promulgated by the
> proliferation and widespread adoption of digital signal processing
> (dsp) tools.
> 
> My reading of "styles" is somewhat narrower than "philosophical
> discourse" -- not that I have anything against philosophical
> discourse. What about the rest of you?


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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 21:42:24 2007
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On 1/26/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> the purpose of microsound is to foster philosophical discourse about
> digital music

The purpose is described on the microsound homepage as follows:

..microsound is an unmediated mailing list oriented toward discussion
of the styles of digital and post-digital music promulgated by the
proliferation and widespread adoption of digital signal processing
(dsp) tools.

My reading of "styles" is somewhat narrower than "philosophical
discourse" -- not that I have anything against philosophical
discourse. What about the rest of you?

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] anti-intellectualism
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--Boundary_(ID_J+RjJHv7l/oYBuO98RMqZg)
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there is a rampant anti-intellectualism displayed by people on this  
list who have somehow misjudged its purpose

the purpose of microsound is to foster philosophical discourse about  
digital music
not just weigh in on topics with personal opinions

there is a very important legacy in aesthetics of Marxist critique
[good place to start BTW is Macdonald Daly's -- 'A Primer in Marxist  
Aesthetics']
and I see no reason not to discuss the foundation of Marxist  
philosophy with other list members
in order for them to gain a better understanding and further engage  
in discussions that might include Marxist thought

I find that most of the anti-intellectualism on this list can be  
attributed one thing:
people's desire to turn the microsound list into a fanboy  
trainspotting list
because they would rather be 'entertained'
and don't want to challenged by philosophical discussions
because it is uncomfortable for them

if you want the fanboy sort of thing
I implore you to unsub from microsound and go start your own list on  
yahoogroups
there you will be free to announce your new mp3s, post software  
reviews, chat about all the cool new CD packaging
and send each other MySpace URL's
ad nauseam

I'm sorry to keep repeating this over and over but...
that is not why the founders started the microsound list

rigorous discussions on digital aesthetics are welcomed and  
encouraged here
you want fluff? go elsewhere

--Boundary_(ID_J+RjJHv7l/oYBuO98RMqZg)--

From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 21:12:06 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] [ot] jan 27 protest
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at risk for castigation for going off on a tangent, how do you like
the edirol r1?  i'm going to istanbul in april and am considering
purchase of a microsized recording device.  tia.

kevin paul
abq, nm

>
> i'm gonna be in boston- so i'll bring my edirol r1 and see if i can
> grab anything interesting ...
>
> --
> \js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>
>

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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 21:06:47 2007
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From: Brent Colflesh <xxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Fwd: IMPORTANT MESSAGE - illegal mp3s selling on
 http://boxmp3.net/
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Chris Bryan wrote:
> So, my label's releases are up for sale illegally on this website 2.
> I know there have been posts in the past regarding this happening
> before.  Anyone have any experience with what to do about this?
> -chris
> (1.8)sec.records
> 
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Afe Records <xxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Date: Jan 26, 2007 2:12 PM
> Subject: IMPORTANT MESSAGE - illegal mp3s selling on http://boxmp3.net/
> To: xxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx
> 
> 
> [Segue versione italiana]
> 
> Hello, I recently discovered this website: http://boxmp3.net/
> 
> They are illegally selling hundreds and hundreds of albums in mp3 format.
> 
> I was quite surprise to discover that some of my music is included along
> with many other well-known and lesser-known artists operating in the
> experimental/ambient/alternative scene.
> 
> I don't know what can be done to stop the unauthorized selling, but I think
> that the first step is to inform all the artists and labels.
> 
> I invite you to check if your music is available on such website (...and
> there is a high chance that it is, including albums released in very 
> limited
> editions...) and to spread this news to all your friends, musicians,
> newsgroups, myspace pages, etc.
> 
> Thanks for reading, ciao!
> 
> (8-) Andrea
> 
> 
> 
> Ciao, oggi ho scoperto l'esistenza di questo sito: http://boxmp3.net/
> 
> Su tale sito è possibile acquistare centinaia, migliaia di albums in 
> formato
> mp3.
> 
> Sono rimasto piuttosto sopreso di scoprire che anche alcuni miei dischi 
> sono
> scaricabili insieme a un sacco di altri albums di musicisti operanti nel
> settore della sperimentazione.
> 
> Non ho idea di che cosa si possa fare per fermare questa vendita non
> autorizzata, ma credo che il primo passo da fare sia quello di informare
> dell'accaduto il maggior numero possibile di musicisti ed etichette.
> 
> Vi invito a controllare se la vostra musica è disponibile sul sito in
> oggetto (...ed è molto probabile che lo sia, comprese album editi in
> pochissimi esemplari...) e a inoltrare questo messaggio a tutti i vostri
> contatti in ambito musicale e, soprattutto, newsgroups, forums, pagine
> myspace, etc.
> 
> Grazie per l'attenzione, ciao!
> 
> (8-) Andrea
> 
> Afe Records www.aferecords.com
> Andrea Marutti www.aferecords.com/am
> Amon / Never Known www.aferecords.com/ank
> The Afeman on MySpace www.myspace.com/afeman
> Afe Records on MySpace www.myspace.com/aferecords
> Afe Pins on MySpace www.myspace.com/afepins
> The Afeman's pictures on Flickr www.flickr.com/photos/afeman
> 
> Andrea Marutti
> Via Villoresi, 5
> 20143 Milano
> Italy
> 
> 
> 

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 http://boxmp3.net/
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So, my label's releases are up for sale illegally on this website 2.
I know there have been posts in the past regarding this happening
before.  Anyone have any experience with what to do about this?
-chris
(1.8)sec.records

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Afe Records <xxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Date: Jan 26, 2007 2:12 PM
Subject: IMPORTANT MESSAGE - illegal mp3s selling on http://boxmp3.net/
To: xxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx


[Segue versione italiana]

Hello, I recently discovered this website: http://boxmp3.net/

They are illegally selling hundreds and hundreds of albums in mp3 format.

I was quite surprise to discover that some of my music is included along
with many other well-known and lesser-known artists operating in the
experimental/ambient/alternative scene.

I don't know what can be done to stop the unauthorized selling, but I think
that the first step is to inform all the artists and labels.

I invite you to check if your music is available on such website (...and
there is a high chance that it is, including albums released in very limited
editions...) and to spread this news to all your friends, musicians,
newsgroups, myspace pages, etc.

Thanks for reading, ciao!

(8-) Andrea



Ciao, oggi ho scoperto l'esistenza di questo sito: http://boxmp3.net/

Su tale sito è possibile acquistare centinaia, migliaia di albums in formato
mp3.

Sono rimasto piuttosto sopreso di scoprire che anche alcuni miei dischi sono
scaricabili insieme a un sacco di altri albums di musicisti operanti nel
settore della sperimentazione.

Non ho idea di che cosa si possa fare per fermare questa vendita non
autorizzata, ma credo che il primo passo da fare sia quello di informare
dell'accaduto il maggior numero possibile di musicisti ed etichette.

Vi invito a controllare se la vostra musica è disponibile sul sito in
oggetto (...ed è molto probabile che lo sia, comprese album editi in
pochissimi esemplari...) e a inoltrare questo messaggio a tutti i vostri
contatti in ambito musicale e, soprattutto, newsgroups, forums, pagine
myspace, etc.

Grazie per l'attenzione, ciao!

(8-) Andrea

Afe Records www.aferecords.com
Andrea Marutti www.aferecords.com/am
Amon / Never Known www.aferecords.com/ank
The Afeman on MySpace www.myspace.com/afeman
Afe Records on MySpace www.myspace.com/aferecords
Afe Pins on MySpace www.myspace.com/afepins
The Afeman's pictures on Flickr www.flickr.com/photos/afeman

Andrea Marutti
Via Villoresi, 5
20143 Milano
Italy



-- 
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
(1.8)sec.records
www.1pt8.com    <---hey look, it's a .com
|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Two (1.8)sec.records releases
featured on xstream-radio top 10
http://xstreamradio.free.fr/topten.htm
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|| 3x3is9 - Data Errors + Field Recordings
mp3 EP on Robotopera [o.o] ))))
http://robotopera.yearofthemachine.com/rop-003.php
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 19:30:01 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] [ot] jan 27 protest
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--- aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
> Watch out for this if u protest, your tax dollars may cook you alive
> in the very near future!

What happened to good ole tear gas???? There's nothing better than
propaganda to make people fearful of "non-lethal" weapons.

Actually it'd be awesome if the gov would use such a thing on US
citizens.. maybe then people would actually "do something".




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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 19:09:17 2007
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From: aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] [ot] jan 27 protest
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Watch out for this if u protest, your tax dollars may cook you alive in 
the very near future!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6300985.stm

I wish more people would take the initiative, or at least get off of 
there asses and get involved.

I also think this would be a great subject matter for a Project.

aLEKs




On Jan 26, 2007, at 1:28 PM, john saylor wrote:

> hi
>
> On 1/26/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> maybe some interesting protest recordings could form the basis of a
>> new microsound project?
>
> i'm gonna be in boston- so i'll bring my edirol r1 and see if i can
> grab anything interesting ...
>
> -- 
> \js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]
>
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>


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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 18:28:43 2007
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hi

On 1/26/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> maybe some interesting protest recordings could form the basis of a
> new microsound project?

i'm gonna be in boston- so i'll bring my edirol r1 and see if i can
grab anything interesting ...

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 17:54:42 2007
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Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2007 09:54:26 -0800
From: Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] [ot] jan 27 protest
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--Boundary_(ID_uoWU5tXDMKGXYG2MjlsEPg)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

to US citizens:
I encourage you to get out there and have your voice heard tomorrow
check this web site for info on a protest in a city near you:
http://www.unitedforpeace.org/

maybe some interesting protest recordings could form the basis of a  
new microsound project?

--Boundary_(ID_uoWU5tXDMKGXYG2MjlsEPg)--

From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 14:41:58 2007
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From: Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
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Great! It's especially hilarious since Al Gore is an Apple board member.

This quote is particularly appealing, and On Topic for this Off Topic thread:

"Someone important once said 'It is difficult to get a man to
understand the need for something when he already has it in his
pocket.'"

~Kyle


On 1/26/07, Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> On 1/25/07, Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > A bit more fun, in case you haven't seen it already...
> > http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2007/1/11cahr.html
>
> And more still:
>
> http://joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/911.html
>
> --
> Milan Davidovic
> http://altmilan.blogspot.com
> http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758
>
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>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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From ???@??? Fri Jan 26 12:18:41 2007
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On 1/25/07, Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> A bit more fun, in case you haven't seen it already...
> http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2007/1/11cahr.html

And more still:

http://joyoftech.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/911.html

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 20:45:36 2007
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From: gerwin <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] history of the middle class
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dude.

so you learned a grate deal from some listfolk on the various topics that have
been explored. good for you.

> As far as middle-class crap.  Read 'Lies My Teacher Told Me' by
> James W. Loewen.  I am still reading it and it will contradict
> all the crap you have been say thus far.

this is brilliant. it's just about the most inarticulate response to the
challenges posed by the current discussion that i can imagine. you *really*
put those left-wing wackos in their place. and once you're done reading that
important text, do report your findings to us. tell it like it is!

the degree of hostility to any kind of complex intellectual engagement or
rumination continues to amaze me.

what's up with that? where does that *fear* come from? what's grating you?

read a book.
make some connections.
bring the love.
don't be afraid.

gerwin.






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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 20:32:25 2007
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Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 15:29:39 -0500
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Subject: Re: [microsound] iConsume
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good. shit. art.

http://www.clioawards.com/winners/index.cfm

On 25-Jan-07, at 3:16 PM, Steven McLeod wrote:

> "Good marketing/advertising" is designed for one thing only and  
> that is you to give the company your cash.  They are not concerned  
> with anything else. As an artform it is manipulative and uses  
> psycholgical techniques designed to make one believe their life  
> will be better as a result of buying into the product/lifestyle,  
> sounds like a shit form of art to me, be as well saying that the  
> way governments manipulate the populase can be an artform..'spose  
> one could say that, not my asthetic tho...
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Barknecht"  
> <xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:36 AM
> Subject: Re: [microsound] iConsume
>
>
>> Hallo,
>> Graham Miller hat gesagt: // Graham Miller wrote:
>>
>>> i just can't believe anyone of intelligence can't see marketing  
>>> as an
>>> art form unto itself.  it's not evil.  it's only bad when it's done
>>> poorly.  i love good advertising. apple computers has good
>>> advertising.  they understand aesthetics. fonts. graphic design.
>>> there is certainly not enough of it. i say more. not less.
>>
>> Aesthetics, fonts and graphic design are not marketing. Marketing  
>> uses
>> these things among other things to sell products, but that doesn't
>> make good or bad design equal to good or bad marketing.
>>
>> Ciao
>> -- 
>> Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.7/647 - Release Date:  
>> 23/01/2007 08:02
>>
>
>
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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 20:16:34 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] iConsume
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"Good marketing/advertising" is designed for one thing only and that is you 
to give the company your cash.  They are not concerned with anything else. 
As an artform it is manipulative and uses psycholgical techniques designed 
to make one believe their life will be better as a result of buying into the 
product/lifestyle, sounds like a shit form of art to me, be as well saying 
that the way governments manipulate the populase can be an artform..'spose 
one could say that, not my asthetic tho...


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank Barknecht" <xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [microsound] iConsume


> Hallo,
> Graham Miller hat gesagt: // Graham Miller wrote:
>
>> i just can't believe anyone of intelligence can't see marketing as an
>> art form unto itself.  it's not evil.  it's only bad when it's done
>> poorly.  i love good advertising. apple computers has good
>> advertising.  they understand aesthetics. fonts. graphic design.
>> there is certainly not enough of it. i say more. not less.
>
> Aesthetics, fonts and graphic design are not marketing. Marketing uses
> these things among other things to sell products, but that doesn't
> make good or bad design equal to good or bad marketing.
>
> Ciao
> -- 
> Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>
>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.17.7/647 - Release Date: 23/01/2007 
> 08:02
>
> 


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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 20:15:37 2007
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--- isjtar <xxxx@xxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> here's ten bucks most of us own a mac and now don't go pretending the
 
> marketing didn't get to you....

You owe me ten bucks..

The best thing about the apple ipods and stuff is that there is
pleothora of accesories.. I bought a cheaper mp3 player several years
ago and have never been able to find a usb car lighter adpater that
worked with it short of buying an invertor and even then I can't listen
while it freaking recharges.

So for the premium price of apple products you can be sure that you'll
beable to get all the realworld widgets you need to make use of it.

Marketing??? Whatever... my cellphone is 6 year old nokia that I only
recently discovered can send text messages..yeah! 

Adrian

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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 19:56:24 2007
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I don't think anything about this has been posted here yet.

http://www.we-make-money-not-art.com/archives/009294.php

Don't have time to look further into it myself, and there's always a
danger that I'll forget, so here's the URL for anyone with free time
at the moment...

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 16:10:31 2007
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Hahaha, that was quite amusing. I love McSweeny's, thanks for sharing.

~Kyle

On 1/25/07, Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> On 1/19/07, emanuele de raymondi <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDnIajyXDLs&mode=related&search=
>
> A bit more fun, in case you haven't seen it already...
>
> http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2007/1/11cahr.html
>
> --
> Milan Davidovic
> http://altmilan.blogspot.com
> http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758
>
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-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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On 1/19/07, emanuele de raymondi <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDnIajyXDLs&mode=related&search=

A bit more fun, in case you haven't seen it already...

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2007/1/11cahr.html

-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 04:15:53 2007
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Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2007 22:15:41 -0600
From: Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
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The "sound 101" site mentioned below is pretty amusing - take the test!

[links and formatting in original]

http://tinyurl.com/2mkhmt

January 24, 2007, 10:00 am

Most Horrible Sound in the World
By Tom Zeller Jr.

A British researcher says he has uncovered what he
believes is the most horrible sound in the world — or
at least it was rated the most horrible of 34 sample
sounds listened to by over a million Internet
participants over the last year.

A professor at Britain's Salford University, Trevor
Cox, claims to have reached a new plateau in the
understanding of human hearing and acoustics, based on
a year of input from of over a million online test
subjects: Vomiting is the worst sound ever.

Or, at least, vomiting as recorded for Professor Cox's
acoustics tests, and as performed by a hired actor
using a bucket of diluted baked beans to recreate the
sound of cascading slop.

“I am driven by a scientific curiosity about why
people shudder at certain sounds and not others,”
Professor Cox said at his Web site. "We are
pre-programmed to be repulsed by horrible things such
as vomiting, as it is fundamental to staying alive to
avoid nasty stuff but, interestingly, the voting
patterns from the sound did not match expectation for
a pure‘disgust’reaction.”

(Readers who feel brave, and wish to listen to the
foul sound clip can do so here, but be warned: it
sounds, well, like someone vomiting.)

As Britain's Guardian newspaper put it today:

The study...sought opinions on 34 sounds at the Web
site http://www.sound101.org in the hope of learning what
makes certain noises so objectionable...

The researchers expected sounds that evoke disgust to
be near the top of the list, such as vomiting,
coughing and spitting, eating an apple with the mouth
open and a lengthy blast from a whoopee cushion.
Revulsion to such sounds is partly governed by culture
and partly an evolutionary legacy that helps us avoid
picking up diseases.

Indeed, the question of just how much of the “disgust”
response is nature and how much is nurture has been a
matter of some speculation. In 2004, researchers at
the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine,
writing in the journal Biology Letters, suggested that
they’d found evidence that the human proclivity to
become disgusted by certain things — say, feces or
rotting meat — was an instinctive and evolutionary
response, developed to protect us from the risk of
disease.

Other researchers, BBC News pointed out at the time,
attribute the disgust response to learned behavior.
Clark McCauley, a professor of psychology at Bryn Mawr
University College in Pennsylvania, spoke to The BBC:

“What people today find disgusting goes far beyond
what can be understood in the evolutionary sense,”
Professor McCauley told BBC News Online.

“This biological mechanism was taken up and extended
to produce a much broader mechanism of revulsion at
different cultural horizons.

“For example, what counts for appropriate care of hair
in our society is not the same as in some other
societies.”

(Readers who want to test their own stomachs can take
a “Disgust Test” at the BBC, in which they are invited
to rate a series of images — from a dirty soccer ball
to rotting teeth — on a scale from “Not Disgusted” to
“Very Disgusted.”)

As for Professor Cox's disgusting sounds study, it's
worth noting that the classic bad sound — fingernails
on a chalkboard — ranked only 16th among the field of
34 horrible sounds. (Note, too, that researchers have
explored whether human revulsion to that sound derives
from its similarity to the warning cries of macaque
monkeys — the idea being that our response to the
scraping might be some residual reflex handed down
from our ancestors.)

Ranking No. 2, just after vomiting, was the sound of
microphone feedback. And tying at number three were
the sounds of many babies crying, and what was simply
called a “horrible scraping” sound.
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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 01:40:44 2007
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Jon,

I fully agree.

We have been reminded far too many times from Kim himself that this is a thread for microsound and the announce list is a different thread.  I have learned a grate deal from most everyone's feedback on the various topics that have been explored.  

As far as middle-class crap.  Read 'Lies My Teacher Told Me' by James W. Loewen.  I am still reading it and it will contradict all the crap you have been say thus far.

I just may bump off this thread again.

Derek


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: jon <xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx.xx>
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: Re: [microsound] history of the middle class
> Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2007 11:48:26 +1100
> 
> 
> i have to admit, even as someone who is really interested in politics,
> history and critical theory, it's getting really tiresome the way
> marxist rant clogs this list up every few weeks.  not only that, but
> it's really trite, too; and that figures, really, considering this is a
> list about microsound, not about political theory (so it should follow
> that it isn't quite the right forum to perfect an understanding of the
> term 'bourgeois', for example).  worse still, anyone who doesn't agree
> or who contradicts this understanding of the world / society /
> microsound is shouted down in a torrent of boring links and shabby
> textual references.
> 
> thank goodness for the handful of genuinely interesting people still
> posting to this list.  despite how much anyone wants to make it so,
> microsound isn't 'left-wing' music.  you should know well enough that a
> style can't seal in meaning.  all your references to punk should have
> taught you that.
> 
> best wishes,
> jon.
> 
> ..
> dizzydonor.org
> 
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>


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From ???@??? Thu Jan 25 00:48:39 2007
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i have to admit, even as someone who is really interested in politics,
history and critical theory, it's getting really tiresome the way
marxist rant clogs this list up every few weeks.  not only that, but
it's really trite, too; and that figures, really, considering this is a
list about microsound, not about political theory (so it should follow
that it isn't quite the right forum to perfect an understanding of the
term 'bourgeois', for example).  worse still, anyone who doesn't agree
or who contradicts this understanding of the world / society /
microsound is shouted down in a torrent of boring links and shabby
textual references.  

thank goodness for the handful of genuinely interesting people still
posting to this list.  despite how much anyone wants to make it so,
microsound isn't 'left-wing' music.  you should know well enough that a
style can't seal in meaning.  all your references to punk should have
taught you that.

best wishes,
jon.

...
dizzydonor.org

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 24 23:32:45 2007
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> I think that the 'Middle Class' was a tactical construction to combat
> the growing threat of Marxism in the Post-WWII Western world.
well it's a complex issue
post WWII american businesses found that there would be difficulty in  
'opening' european markets due to the proliferation of workers unions
which was an outgrowth of and directly influenced by communist/ 
socialist/anarchist/marxist (I'll call this 'leftist' for ease of  
typing) parties
so the US devised this program called the Marshall Plan
which had two purposes:
one was the help rebuild europe (in our own likeness) thereby  
establishing markets for the US overproduction of goods
the other was to bust the unions and discourage 'leftist' political  
philosophy from spreading in europe
thus making it cheaper for american businesses to operate there

in order to understand the US situation you need to read a little  
about labor unions in the US
most unions were rank and file pretty much 'leftist'

while leftists have always had problems here in the US post- 
industrial revolution
it wasn't until after WWII and the start of the cold war
that the US started to bust the unions here as well
witness the Taft-Hartley Act of 1947

shortly afterwards McCarthy was made the head witch-hunter of the red  
scare
and further made it verboten to be a leftist and/or join a union  
without suspicion of being a communist

so when you use the term 'middle class'
you have to realize that the term changed its meaning over the years  
(~20C onwards)
from meaning blue collar/working class
to a more inclusive term meaning blue and white collar workers
so middle class was not something that was invented in the US
but rather is a stratification which occurs under capitalism


> Because socialist trends were developing and outright during the first
> half of the 20th Century, there was a growing concern that the unruly
> masses would rebel and take down the Bourgeoisie class.
not really the bourgeoisie but the elite, ruling class, the  
capitalists, the wealthy, the captains of industry

>
> The easiest solution to this was to extend the concept of 'property
> ownership' to include niceties like washing machines, personal
> vehicles, houses, and the like.
in marxism the phrase 'private property' doesn't refer to cars,  
appliances, etc
this often confuses people
'private property' refers to the 'means of production' owned by  
capitalists
i.e., it is privately owned and not state owned
private property refers to the printing presses, assembly lines,  
automotive plants, steel foundries, etc owned by private corporations
the items you mention are better termed 'commodities'
the phenomenon you refer to is called 'commodity fetishism' (the  
desire to own goods aroused by marketing rather than need)

> Then the dominant class could point to
> these trinkets (which by no means match the real idea of property
> ownership in terms of means of production)
see above

> and say, 'the Commies want
> to take away your right to own these things,' and thus scare the lowly
> serfs into protecting their minuscule treasures from the Red Devils.
yes...but this is because they twisted the meaning of private property
this is often used to further try and spread misinformation about  
leftist politics
it is the means of production that should belong to the state which  
is made up of the people
which we have mini-me versions of in the US in the form of workers  
collectives and cooperatives



> So, in a sense, Marx DID predict the future.
marx wasn't the first to have figured out where all this was  
headed...there were other thinkers in England and France who had  
covered similar ground but were less well known


> But by writing it down,
> the elite power structure was able to hedge the flow of history by
> offering a palatable alternative by leveraging marketing, debt, and
> greed.
that all depends on what you mean by a palatable alternative...?
is capitalism really a palatable alternative to self-governed autonomy?

you also have to figure into this the aspect of societal control  
exercised by religion which set a precedent in offering consolation  
to the down-trodden and needy
while it kept aristocracy and merchants and church elite fat and  
powerful for many years before capitalism evolved (due to mass  
production via machines)
once a system of control is in place is it easy to replace or expand  
that system

capitalism is anathema to what it started out to be: a system of self- 
correcting free markets which would benefit all citizens who  
participated
it has turned into corporate feudalism in which only the top 2%  
benefit at the expense of the rest




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From ???@??? Wed Jan 24 17:52:41 2007
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Subject: [microsound] Soundbikes
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Thought y'all might find this interesting.

R.

STEIM presents a workshop and a lecture by soundbike artist Kaspar König.

Soundbikes - BIKE YOUR BEAT
by Kaspar König

A workshop in which do-it-yourself manipulation 
of ordinairy bicycles leads to high-end 
sound-generators and performing instruments. 
Bring a bike and transform it together with the 
knowledge and enthousiasm of inventor-artist 
Kaspar König. 

Creating acoustic extensions for the bicycle 
sounds like a contradiction-in-terms to the 
design of a bicycle. In this workshop everybody 
is invited to discover the many sounds hidden in 
the bicycle itself and the bicycling. To make a 
regular bicycle-sound we can easily neglect the 
maintainance of a bicycle. By not only turning 
the bicycle upside down but by actively 
adding sound-sensors, we'll discover the 
possibilities of soundbiking. Add-ons can be 
everything from a playing-card and laundry 
wedges, to fully powered amplification for 
strings, microphones and all other things that 
fit the conditions of the soundbicycle and its 
creative maker.

How can a bicycle brake become a brake beat?
By turning the wheel regularly, a bicycle likely 
becomes a time-pulse or measure. By finding the 
right spots to control the sound input, more 
musical patterns can be discovered while the 
wheel is turning. Now it's up to our imagination 
to invent all kinds of little things we could try 
to mount on the existing mechanisms as well as 
discover new mechanisms.

Can every bicycle become a musical instrument?
Basically yes, if some parts are still rotating, 
sounds can be created. Although a full functional 
bicycle can ride on the streets and the street is 
the best trigger for the soundbike!

Is there a composition in the street?
That is a good question. For many reasons I 
believe several streets sound better then others 
with and without the use of a soundbike, 
depending on the charactaristics of the bike and 
the street. Drive your soundbike outside and 
experience the biggest score of the world: the 
street!  Let your ear decide! 

Location: STEIM, Achtergracht 19, Amsterdam
Dates: Monday February 19 through Thursday February 22
Time: 10:00 - 17:00h
Fee: ¤ 100

The fee for the workshop is ¤100, registration 
can be done only through the STEIM website, at 
http://www.steim.org/steim/workshops.php .
For questions please email xxxxx@xxxxx.xx or call +31 206228690.


Also:

AUDIOSPORT Lecture

A lecture on the works of Kaspar König: Recycling 
firehose, Transmitting Object Behaviours, 
Architectural Acoustic research (xiloseum), Mr. 
Bend and
How sound meets sport in the festival called Audiolympics, Beijing 08.

Location: STEIM, Utrechtsedwarsstraat 134, Amsterdam
Date: Tuesday February 20
Time: 20:30h
Entrance: free


And:

At the Y-helling (NDSM) on Saturday February 24

A concert with Kaspar König and guests playing 
the soundbikes and the circuitbended 
hardwarehacks like the Audioshaver from China.
More information www.kasparkoenig.com



Biography

Kaspar König (1975)  is a dutch artist living in 
Berlin and Maastricht . He studied Industrial 
Design at the UdK in Berlin. He is interested in 
the goods for daily use and their sound-universe. 
He invents instruments like the Soundbikes and 
Mr. Bend and he recycles firehoses in a delicate 
way. Furthermore he composes soundpieces for 
(dance) theatre.  Recently he started working as 
a lecturer at the Cafa in Beijing. He also 
organizes the Audiolympics, an off-festival 
during the Olympic Games, with the contribution 
of artists on the threshold between music and 
sports. www.kasparkoenig.com



To unsubscribe from this list please go to 
http://list.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/steim

STEIM                    
(studio for electro instrumental music)
(studio voor elektro instrumentale muziek)    

Achtergracht 19
1017 WL Amsterdam
The Netherlands

Tel: 020-6228690
Fax: 020-6264262
Email: xxxxx@xxxxx.xx
Website: www.steim.nl

_______________________________________________
STEIM mailing list
xxxxx@xxxx.xxxxxx.xx
https://list.xs4all.nl/mailman/listinfo/steim
-- 

--
Website: http://www.warbaby.com
(Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
--

"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and 
were good, God would permit us to be pirates."

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 22:14:21 2007
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From: Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] society of debt
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http://www.time.com/time/arts/article/0,8599,1581036,00.html?cnn=yes

the iPhone suddenly doesn't look so bad...

g.

On 22-Jan-07, at 4:12 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

>> I'm personally curious how companies use marketing to perpetuate the
>> 'society of debt,' which encourages all walks of life in the United
>> States to relinquish financial freedoms in the 'interest' of  
>> acquiring
>> loans to pay for goods that they cannot immediately afford (no pun
>> intended).
> yes this is a very interesting topic
> in a nutshell:
> during WWII the engines of production had been running full blast
> it was the first time since the depression that the US had been  
> producing at that level
> but of course most of the goods we were producing were going to the  
> war effort:
> bombs, planes, uniforms, bullets, guns, walkie-talkies, etc.
> were all being produced by a machine that had not existed before
> this was the birth of the US military-industrial complex
> companies had gotten fat off the war
> and once it was over and
> the soldiers came back home from the war
> they needed to work
> so factories were retooled for producing consumer goods
> which had to produce x amount to be profitable
> so we 'rebuilt' Europe and opened those markets to american goods
> but in order to keep the home fires burning
> we also needed to open US markets as well
> so the automobile was marketed heavily and sold as part of the  
> american dream
> as well as appliances for stay-at-home moms raising the kids
> being born after WWII
> this was called the 'baby boom'
> problem was americans weren't consuming as much as corporations  
> needed them to
> so the credit card was introduced
> the first 'general purpose' credit or charge card in the US was the  
> Diners Club card -- introduced in 1950
>
> check out a good documentary here:
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/view/
>
> so americans could now consume more than they produced
> in other words: they were able to buy more than their salaries  
> would allow them to
> and we have been on a steadily rising curve of consumption
> we consume way more than we produce
> and in order to sustain this
> we are in debt
> massive debt
> as a nation and as a society
> and marketing greases the engine of consumer debt
> by making us believe that we need more than we actually do
> which is a waste of resources and contributes to global warming
>
> another good documentary:
> http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
>
>
> "Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of  
> actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing,  
> synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or  
> generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or  
> communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary  
> form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend  
> subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision,  
> consistency, relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth,  
> breadth, and fairness."
>
>
>


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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 22:03:42 2007
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This is turning into a delightful discussion that touches some deep
issues that have been plaguing my thoughts lately.

I've been toying with an idea lately that somehow sprung up in my
mind, but is more than likely mentioned in a paper or journal
somewhere that I'm unaware of.

I think that the 'Middle Class' was a tactical construction to combat
the growing threat of Marxism in the Post-WWII Western world.

Because socialist trends were developing and outright during the first
half of the 20th Century, there was a growing concern that the unruly
masses would rebel and take down the Bourgeoisie class.

The easiest solution to this was to extend the concept of 'property
ownership' to include niceties like washing machines, personal
vehicles, houses, and the like. Then the dominant class could point to
these trinkets (which by no means match the real idea of property
ownership in terms of means of production) and say, 'the Commies want
to take away your right to own these things,' and thus scare the lowly
serfs into protecting their minuscule treasures from the Red Devils.

So, in a sense, Marx DID predict the future. But by writing it down,
the elite power structure was able to hedge the flow of history by
offering a palatable alternative by leveraging marketing, debt, and
greed.

Thoughts on this?

~Kyle

On 1/22/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > I'm personally curious how companies use marketing to perpetuate the
> > 'society of debt,' which encourages all walks of life in the United
> > States to relinquish financial freedoms in the 'interest' of acquiring
> > loans to pay for goods that they cannot immediately afford (no pun
> > intended).
> yes this is a very interesting topic
> in a nutshell:
> during WWII the engines of production had been running full blast
> it was the first time since the depression that the US had been
> producing at that level
> but of course most of the goods we were producing were going to the
> war effort:
> bombs, planes, uniforms, bullets, guns, walkie-talkies, etc.
> were all being produced by a machine that had not existed before
> this was the birth of the US military-industrial complex
> companies had gotten fat off the war
> and once it was over and
> the soldiers came back home from the war
> they needed to work
> so factories were retooled for producing consumer goods
> which had to produce x amount to be profitable
> so we 'rebuilt' Europe and opened those markets to american goods
> but in order to keep the home fires burning
> we also needed to open US markets as well
> so the automobile was marketed heavily and sold as part of the
> american dream
> as well as appliances for stay-at-home moms raising the kids
> being born after WWII
> this was called the 'baby boom'
> problem was americans weren't consuming as much as corporations
> needed them to
> so the credit card was introduced
> the first 'general purpose' credit or charge card in the US was the
> Diners Club card -- introduced in 1950
>
> check out a good documentary here:
> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/view/
>
> so americans could now consume more than they produced
> in other words: they were able to buy more than their salaries would
> allow them to
> and we have been on a steadily rising curve of consumption
> we consume way more than we produce
> and in order to sustain this
> we are in debt
> massive debt
> as a nation and as a society
> and marketing greases the engine of consumer debt
> by making us believe that we need more than we actually do
> which is a waste of resources and contributes to global warming
>
> another good documentary:
> http://www.endofsuburbia.com/
>
>
> "Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of
> actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing,
> synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or
> generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or
> communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary
> form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend
> subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency,
> relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness."
>
>
>
>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 21:12:37 2007
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> I'm personally curious how companies use marketing to perpetuate the
> 'society of debt,' which encourages all walks of life in the United
> States to relinquish financial freedoms in the 'interest' of acquiring
> loans to pay for goods that they cannot immediately afford (no pun
> intended).
yes this is a very interesting topic
in a nutshell:
during WWII the engines of production had been running full blast
it was the first time since the depression that the US had been  
producing at that level
but of course most of the goods we were producing were going to the  
war effort:
bombs, planes, uniforms, bullets, guns, walkie-talkies, etc.
were all being produced by a machine that had not existed before
this was the birth of the US military-industrial complex
companies had gotten fat off the war
and once it was over and
the soldiers came back home from the war
they needed to work
so factories were retooled for producing consumer goods
which had to produce x amount to be profitable
so we 'rebuilt' Europe and opened those markets to american goods
but in order to keep the home fires burning
we also needed to open US markets as well
so the automobile was marketed heavily and sold as part of the  
american dream
as well as appliances for stay-at-home moms raising the kids
being born after WWII
this was called the 'baby boom'
problem was americans weren't consuming as much as corporations  
needed them to
so the credit card was introduced
the first 'general purpose' credit or charge card in the US was the  
Diners Club card -- introduced in 1950

check out a good documentary here:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/credit/view/

so americans could now consume more than they produced
in other words: they were able to buy more than their salaries would  
allow them to
and we have been on a steadily rising curve of consumption
we consume way more than we produce
and in order to sustain this
we are in debt
massive debt
as a nation and as a society
and marketing greases the engine of consumer debt
by making us believe that we need more than we actually do
which is a waste of resources and contributes to global warming

another good documentary:
http://www.endofsuburbia.com/


"Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of  
actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing,  
synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or  
generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or  
communication, as a guide to belief and action. In its exemplary  
form, it is based on universal intellectual values that transcend  
subject matter divisions: clarity, accuracy, precision, consistency,  
relevance, sound evidence, good reasons, depth, breadth, and fairness."



--Boundary_(ID_yxUxYFmOf14bmyKz//Q3hQ)--

From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 21:01:26 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] ten bucks
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ah but you do use a mac!  and you are pretending the marketing didn't  
get to you.
i said:
> here's ten bucks most of us own a mac and now don't go pretending  
> the marketing didn't get to you....
and i'd argue that part of the marketing towards beginners is  
usability, osx-unix towards advanced users.
of course they are just nice features too.

look, it's all the same to me, but i'd never go as far as (for  
myself) stating that i'm immune to marketing just because i'm  
critical towards it.
as you stated, it works on so many levels.

you're going to have to do better than that ; )

Op 22-jan-07, om 21:44 heeft Kim Cascone het volgende geschreven:

> a friends Dad worked for IBM for many years
> back in 1979 or so I helped him unpack and set up the first IBM  
> computer sold on the market
> I much preferred my KIM-1 single board microcomputer on which I had  
> taught myself Assembly Language
>
> in the late 80's I had been working as a sound editor in the film  
> industry
> most people in film sound were very reluctant to make the switch  
> from 35mm mag to digital
> they didn't think they were smart enough to work a computer
> but Apple was invading the post production environment via a sound  
> editor called 'Alchemy' by Donny Blank
> then Q-Sheet, Sound Designer and finally Sound Tools by Digidesign  
> which then became Pro Tools
>
> but it wasn't until 1989 that I bought my first Mac
> it was more than I could afford and I wrote a Filemaker database to  
> track sales and inventory for my company Silent Records
> we ran Silent on it for a year or so until salespeople needed  
> individual access to the database
> then we needed to design catalogs and CD covers
> then I started mastering all the CD's on the label
> and we kept buying more and more Mac's
>
> so I can safely say that my use of Mac's was never really driven by  
> the mystification created by Apple
>
> but more of what OS was simpler for salespeople and artists to use  
> -- which at that time was Apple not Microsoft
>
> I now use both Linux and OS X because they are both based on UNIX  
> not because the marketing 'got to me'
>
> so please Paypal me 10 bucks
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>


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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 20:45:13 2007
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a friends Dad worked for IBM for many years
back in 1979 or so I helped him unpack and set up the first IBM  
computer sold on the market
I much preferred my KIM-1 single board microcomputer on which I had  
taught myself Assembly Language

in the late 80's I had been working as a sound editor in the film  
industry
most people in film sound were very reluctant to make the switch from  
35mm mag to digital
they didn't think they were smart enough to work a computer
but Apple was invading the post production environment via a sound  
editor called 'Alchemy' by Donny Blank
then Q-Sheet, Sound Designer and finally Sound Tools by Digidesign  
which then became Pro Tools

but it wasn't until 1989 that I bought my first Mac
it was more than I could afford and I wrote a Filemaker database to  
track sales and inventory for my company Silent Records
we ran Silent on it for a year or so until salespeople needed  
individual access to the database
then we needed to design catalogs and CD covers
then I started mastering all the CD's on the label
and we kept buying more and more Mac's

so I can safely say that my use of Mac's was never really driven by  
the mystification created by Apple

but more of what OS was simpler for salespeople and artists to use --  
which at that time was Apple not Microsoft

I now use both Linux and OS X because they are both based on UNIX not  
because the marketing 'got to me'

so please Paypal me 10 bucks
  

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For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 20:43:25 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] iConsume
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I love this thread. Keep it up.

 
Peter Lasell
Web Design, Illustration, Digital Audio
www.peterlasell.net





 
____________________________________________________________________________________
Don't pick lemons.
See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos.
http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html 
--Boundary_(ID_UUfMGqAQUsfVbkHvR3HvlA)--

From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 20:10:49 2007
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 14:10:32 -0600 (CST)
From: Mika Martini <xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] SORRY FOR "difusion||pueblonuevo||20.01.07"
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sorry list, its a mistake.
   
  mika.


      + + + + + + + + + + + + + 
[M!M] [CHILE]
  [www.pueblonuevo.cl]
   
   
   




 __________________________________________________
Correo Yahoo!
Espacio para todos tus mensajes, antivirus y antispam ¡gratis! 
Regístrate ya - http://correo.espanol.yahoo.com/ 
--Boundary_(ID_0RiFz4d5Jg9WSGUrsOPuIg)--

From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 19:53:58 2007
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noticias || news || pueblo nuevo netlabel || www.pueblonuevo.cldifusion 20.01.07
cartelera de presentaciones en vivo / live_acts
ultimos lanzamientos / last releases
novedades / news
sitios recomendados / recommended"La velocidad desinfla la acción crítica. El capitalismo requiere de la estupidez para generar mayor consumo. La falta de pensamiento crítico genera mayor beneficio." || Charles Esche ||

Hola Microsound 
Luego de un breve receso, donde aprovechamos de revisar la base de datos de emails, hemos vuelto con los informativos de nuestras actividades. Nuevamente les reitero que si NO DESEAN RECIBIR MAS EMAILS, simplemente respondan NO+ en el subject. Cualquier comentario es bien recibido. Disfruten el verano...


cartelera de presentaciones en vivo / live_acts

Martes 23 eneroCiclo Pueblo Nuevo en Bluebird
Freddy Musri
ver flyer >> http://www.pueblonuevo.cl/images/Flyer_ciclo_bluebird.jpgBluebird Restobar.
Av. Providencia 1670-b, Galería El Patio, Stgo. 22:00 hrs. / $ gratis



Martes 30 eneroLanzamiento "Presente EP" / Musica y visuales
Equipo (Cristobal Saavedra + visuales de Michelle BossySala 2 SCD Bellavista.
20:00 hrs / $ GRATIS



Martes 30 eneroCiclo Pueblo Nuevo en Bluebird
Hans Carstens
ver flyer >> http://www.pueblonuevo.cl/images/Flyer_ciclo_bluebird.jpgBluebird Restobar.
Av. Providencia 1670-b, Galería El Patio, Stgo. 22:00 hrs. / $ gratis



Sabado 03 febreroCiclo Pueblo Nuevo en Bluebird
Mika Martini + Alisu + Equipo

Bluebird Restobar.
Av. Providencia 1670-b, Galería El Patio, Stgo. 22:00 hrs. / $ gratis



ultimos lanzamientos / last releases

08.01.2007[vg003] antipublicidad
http://www.pueblonuevo.cl/pn_site/index_vg003.htmstreet art, stencil.acuario [cl]


29.12.2006[pn012] voyage ep
http://www.pueblonuevo.cl/pn_site/index_pn012.htmminimal.d.soul [de]


20.12.2006[pn011] presente ep
http://www.pueblonuevo.cl/pn_site/index_pn011.htmminimal, idm, electro, experimental.equipo [cl]



novedades / news

06.01.2007Pueblo Nuevo es seleccionado entre los ganadores del concurso DIRAC. En Abril Mika Martini, Danieto y Alisu inician gira a Mexico por tres semanas, tocando en las ciudades de Mexico DF, Morelia, Guadalajara y Tijuana. Pronto mas info...


29.12.2006Photo report Pueblo Nuevo en Buenos Aires, Argentina [Hotel Youkali]
http://www.pueblonuevo.cl/pn_site/index_news_youkali.htm




sitios recomendados / recommended

http://www.amencoma.cl [cl]http://www.theremyn4.com [pe]http://www.electrograph.gr [gr]


http://www.impar.cl [cl]http://www.chiletransparente.cl [cl]http://www.ertza.net [es]


http://www.manziping.cl [cl]http://www.neurotyka.org [cl]http://www.mus.cl [cl]



Hasta la proxima, saludos!
Mika Martini & Pueblo Nuevo Crew
visita / visit:
http://www.pueblonuevo.cl
--Boundary_(ID_R4bhHbPQP5RTSNqzNB2bTw)--

From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 17:24:31 2007
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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 11:23:40 -0600
From: Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] That will be quite enough.
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Too bad a few pompous cunts fee like they have to dominate every discussion,
or pollute it with irrelevant off topic bullshit.
Like, say, the maintainers.
I'll miss a few of you.
Bye now.

~!J!




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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 16:33:15 2007
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From: Frank Barknecht <xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] ubuntustudio & 4
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Hallo,
xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx hat gesagt: // xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx wrote:

> I am about to set up a new mac powerpc  with OS X 10.4.8 and a linux
> distribution with Parallel. I am downloading pure:dyne now. Does anyone
> have any opinions about whether pure:dyne or ubuntu would be better to
> run? I am working primarily with pd.

The nice thing about pure:dyne is that it's a live CD, which means,
that you don't need to install it to disk (but you can do so, if you
like). AFAIK pure:dyne is one of the small number of Linux live CDs
which actually boot on Intel-Macs. 

However pure:dyne also is still in development and may have some rough
edges, especially on Intel-Macs. It probably is wise to subscribe to
the pure:dyne mailing list to get support from the makers. 

Personally I'm not too fond of Ubuntu, but that's because I'm really
old school when it comes to Linuxes: I just need a command line and
I'm happy, I don't like all the graphical setup tools which come
included in standard Ubuntu. However it's a great distribution for
people who are new to Linux. The included Pd and Pd externals packages
are a bit limited, though, and you may be better off in the long run
if you install you're own version. This means: compiling, but
compiling stuff is really not hard on Linux because all needed tools
are already included and the triplet "configure && make && make
install" is just as familiar to Linux users as double-clicking
setup.exe is to Windows users. (And besides: For installing standard
software packages, Ubuntu or Debian have even more comfortable tools
like "Synaptic")

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 16:09:09 2007
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I am about to set up a new mac powerpc  with OS X 10.4.8 and a linux
distribution with Parallel. I am downloading pure:dyne now. Does anyone
have any opinions about whether pure:dyne or ubuntu would be better to
run? I am working primarily with pd.


> Hallo,
> Kyle Klipowicz hat gesagt: // Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>
>> Looks good, I can't wait for it!
>
> Why wait? Ubuntustudio is just an Ubuntu with some special
> preconfiguration and probably a kernel patched for insanely low
> latencies. You can also install Ubuntu for now, or Debian or 64Studio
> from http://64studio.com/ or run a pure:dyne live CD:
> http://puredyne.goto10.org/
>
> But I suppose you know that already. ;)
>
> Ciao
> --
>  Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>



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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 16:01:48 2007
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Hallo,
Kyle Klipowicz hat gesagt: // Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

> Looks good, I can't wait for it!

Why wait? Ubuntustudio is just an Ubuntu with some special
preconfiguration and probably a kernel patched for insanely low
latencies. You can also install Ubuntu for now, or Debian or 64Studio
from http://64studio.com/ or run a pure:dyne live CD:
http://puredyne.goto10.org/

But I suppose you know that already. ;) 

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 15:49:48 2007
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hi

On 1/22/07, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> she was quite insane, i'll give you that.

just like xenakis ... [or cage, or george clinton, or ...]

it's pretty easy to reduce her [or anyone] to a glib dismissal. much
more difficult to try and understand what drove her so, and what kind
of relevance those ideas may or may not have for us now.

-- 
\js  [ http://or8.net/~johns/ ]

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 15:17:47 2007
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Looks good, I can't wait for it!

~Kyle

On 1/21/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> http://ubuntustudio.org/
>
> also check out the film '4' by Ilya Khrzhanovsky
> very nice (although sometimes a tad overbearing) sound design
>
>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 14:57:07 2007
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yes. she was quite insane, i'll give you that.

On 22-Jan-07, at 9:44 AM, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

> I did read almost the complete 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, until I
> got stuck on that damn 80 page brainwashingly repetitive John Galt
> speech and realized that Ayn Rand was a lunatic reacting to her
> twisted, idealist fascist upbringing with an equal and oppositely
> idealist fascist reaction.
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 1/21/07, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
>> now go out a read ayn rand like good little children:)
>>
>> g.
> -- 
>
> http://theradioproject.com
> http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
>
> (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
> (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
> ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
> _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
> ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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I did read almost the complete 'Atlas Shrugged' by Ayn Rand, until I
got stuck on that damn 80 page brainwashingly repetitive John Galt
speech and realized that Ayn Rand was a lunatic reacting to her
twisted, idealist fascist upbringing with an equal and oppositely
idealist fascist reaction.

~Kyle

On 1/21/07, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> now go out a read ayn rand like good little children:)
>
> g.
-- 

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Wait, is this a sarcastic joke? The operative word is 'new
technology,' I suppose. Isn't a laptop fairly new?

Maybe Kim's got something on this technology fetishism.

~Kyle

On 1/21/07, Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx> wrote:
> isjtar wrote:
> > exactly. besides i've still to meet a laptop performer who doesn't get
> > kicks from new tech.
>
> i'm a laptop performer. i don't get kicks from new technology.
>
-- 

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 13:27:56 2007
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Hallo,
Graham Miller hat gesagt: // Graham Miller wrote:

> i just can't believe anyone of intelligence can't see marketing as an  
> art form unto itself.  it's not evil.  it's only bad when it's done  
> poorly.  i love good advertising. apple computers has good  
> advertising.  they understand aesthetics. fonts. graphic design.  
> there is certainly not enough of it. i say more. not less.

Aesthetics, fonts and graphic design are not marketing. Marketing uses
these things among other things to sell products, but that doesn't
make good or bad design equal to good or bad marketing.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 09:07:16 2007
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Damian Stewart wrote:

>i'm a laptop performer.

Is that something like being a lap dancer?

R.
-- 

--
Website: http://www.warbaby.com
(Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
--

"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would 
permit us to be pirates."

          - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi


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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 05:43:53 2007
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dead dinosaurs! i don't hear them complaining.

besides, what else are dead dinosaurs good for other than turning  
them into iPhones!


On 22-Jan-07, at 12:34 AM, Damian Stewart wrote:

> Graham Miller wrote:
>
>>> Excessive resource consumption.
>> don't worry - i'm sure they'll make enough iPhones for everyone:)
>
> Um. That's exactly my point. Each iPhone uses enormous amounts of  
> fresh water and enormous amounts of dead dinosaurs, plus  
> (especially once you include shipping) results in the injection of  
> enormous amounts of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.
>
> Err, unless that's what you were saying anyway :-)
>
> -- 
> Damian Stewart
> +64 27 305 4107
>
> f r e y
> live music with machines
> http://www.frey.co.nz
> http://www.myspace.com/freyed
>
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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 05:35:00 2007
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Graham Miller wrote:

>> Excessive resource consumption.
> 
> don't worry - i'm sure they'll make enough iPhones for everyone:)

Um. That's exactly my point. Each iPhone uses enormous amounts of fresh 
water and enormous amounts of dead dinosaurs, plus (especially once you 
include shipping) results in the injection of enormous amounts of carbon 
dioxide into the atmosphere.

Err, unless that's what you were saying anyway :-)

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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--Boundary_(ID_V5EpsK8PWTm92LCZ2mrlsA)
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http://ubuntustudio.org/

also check out the film '4' by Ilya Khrzhanovsky
very nice (although sometimes a tad overbearing) sound design

--Boundary_(ID_V5EpsK8PWTm92LCZ2mrlsA)--

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>
>> besides, what's so wrong with commodity fetishism?
>
> Excessive resource consumption.

don't worry - i'm sure they'll make enough iPhones for everyone:)

>
> -- 
> Damian Stewart
> +64 27 305 4107
>
> f r e y
> live music with machines
> http://www.frey.co.nz
> http://www.myspace.com/freyed
>
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Graham Miller wrote:

> to assume that every corporation is made up of 
> the Evil Minions Of Commodity Fetishism is pretty naive unto itself. 

An argument (after The Corporation) can be made here that even though a 
particular corporation isn't full of the Evil Minions of Commodity 
Fetishism, this doesn't mean that the actions of said company don't require 
or bring about commodity fetishism.

I'd say that technology companies, and in particular Apple, thrive on 
commodity fetishism, and to some extent require it to stay in business. iWant.

> besides, what's so wrong with commodity fetishism?  

Excessive resource consumption.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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fed-ex.

On 21-Jan-07, at 10:31 PM, aleks vasic wrote:

> Surely you are not insinuating that Kevin Federline  is not  
> interesting?  Please... :)
>
>
>
> aLEKs
>


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Surely you are not insinuating that Kevin Federline  is not  
interesting?  Please... :)



aLEKs


On Jan 21, 2007, at 10:24 PM, Graham Miller wrote:

> marketing isn't magic. it can only do so much. if the product  
> itself is no good, whether it is computer or kevin federline, no  
> amount of maketing in the world is going to insure that that  
> product succeeds in the marketplace.  there is a reason why  
> products like madonna and apple are successful. because, at the  
> core (no pun intended), there is something there that people find  
> truly interesting, useful or appealing.
>
> g.
>
>> here's ten bucks most of us own a mac and now don't go pretending  
>> the marketing didn't get to you....
>>
>>
>>
>> Op 21-jan-07, om 21:24 heeft xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx het volgende  
>> geschreven:
>>


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marketing isn't magic. it can only do so much. if the product itself  
is no good, whether it is computer or kevin federline, no amount of  
maketing in the world is going to insure that that product succeeds  
in the marketplace.  there is a reason why products like madonna and  
apple are successful. because, at the core (no pun intended), there  
is something there that people find truly interesting, useful or  
appealing.

g.

> here's ten bucks most of us own a mac and now don't go pretending  
> the marketing didn't get to you....
>
>
>
> Op 21-jan-07, om 21:24 heeft xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx het volgende  
> geschreven:
>
>> Okay, you don't like the iPhone, we get it already.
>>
>> Johan.
>>
>>
>>> - the thread on the iPhone touches on a larger and more complex  
>>> issue
>>> of 'marketing' and how people are trained (via the media) to respond
>>> psychologically to the money lubricated mechanisms of manipulation
>>> that corporations use to fleece the public
>>>
>>> - corporations prey on our naiveté and childlike propensity to
>>> mystify and be mystified by new complex accumulations of symbols
>>> (mobile phone + touch-screen = must-have gadget)
>>>
>>> when I hear the term 'marketing' I take it to mean the ability to
>>> manipulate the media in order to project an 'aura' which arouses a
>>> state of desire and fetishism in the consumer
>>>
>>> - 'marketing' is much more complex than simply issuing an  
>>> announcement
>>> while its quaint to quote the dictionary, real-world/working
>>> definitions are much too complex to encapsulate in a single sound-
>>> bite from the dictionary
>>>
>>> real-world marketing is a carefully constructed admixture of  
>>> multiple
>>> nodes (a network) that creates the 'presence' or 'aura' of an object
>>> in the essay: "Grain, Sequence, System: three levels of reception in
>>> the performance of laptop music"
>>> (it's on the microsound Wiki if people want to read it)
>>> I point out that it is the  _combination_  of TV advertising, music
>>> videos, web presence, press releases, CD displays at big-box stores,
>>> etc that creates a 'network of aura' for a pop-star such as Madonna
>>> in which the individual nodes exchange energy - i.e., a synergistic
>>> network which creates desire is formed by its combined power
>>>
>>> the iPhone is no different
>>> as Apple has placed the fetish of the iPhone appropriately in all  
>>> the
>>> Internet locations where it would solicit the correct market  
>>> response
>>> of desire
>>>
>>> there is an interesting book on the marketing of music tech titled:
>>> 'Any Sound You Can Imagine: Making Music/Consuming Technology' by
>>> Paul Theberge
>>> http://tinyurl.com/2rtk9p
>>>
>>> which analyzes how musicians consume technology
>>>
>>> the point is to think critically about consumption
>>> and not fall prey to the the fetishism created by corporate  
>>> marketing
>>> dept's
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
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From ???@??? Mon Jan 22 03:14:14 2007
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'any sound you can imagine' is a good book.  but it's not really the  
marxist rant kim makes it out to be. it's far more objective and  
rational. i'd recommend it, even though it is pretty dated and never  
really addresses electronic music, microsound, techno, house,  
whatever. it's mostly concerned with pop and rock.

as far as the rest of kim's post: you are criticizing people for over  
simplifying 'larger and more complex' issues and yet this kind of  
unilateral marxist thinking is just as much an oversimplification as  
anything here. in fact it strikes me as incredibly romantic.  like  
when first year university students read 'das kapital' for the first  
time and run out and join some juvenile club that can't wait for the  
next TA strike so they can compare their protest pickets, still  
glistening wet with magic marker.

i just can't believe anyone of intelligence can't see marketing as an  
art form unto itself.  it's not evil.  it's only bad when it's done  
poorly.  i love good advertising. apple computers has good  
advertising.  they understand aesthetics. fonts. graphic design.  
there is certainly not enough of it. i say more. not less.

music is not just music. it's the entire sphere of 'larger and more  
complex' social relations that encompass it.  that's what draws me  
toward ethnomusicology.  it looks at the whole 'synergistic network'   
and calls that 'music.' it goes beyond the musician and sees the  
entire collaborative nexus of all the artists and different kinds of  
art forms that go into amking 'music.'  i mean, how is me company any  
less significant than say björk in the way her music is articulated  
or perceived?

to think that an ad or a video or an album cover has nothing to do  
with music is a major oversight and pretty damn square, if you ask  
me. and not in the waveform way.

being hyper-aware of this so-called 'manipulation' only makes the  
experience more pleasurable when it is done well.  media literacy is  
essential, no doubt, but to assume that every corporation is made up  
of the Evil Minions Of Commodity Fetishism is pretty naive unto  
itself. besides, what's so wrong with commodity fetishism?  i think  
it's one of the defining attributes of humanity; this fact that we  
can ascribe some kind of psychic energy to our own creations, whether  
it is a rolex, a steak dinner, or a favourite CD. i don't see  
dolphins doing this.

i for one, would like to retain this childlike propensity to be  
mystified by the world around us.

that's where good art comes from.

now go out a read ayn rand like good little children:)

g.



On 21-Jan-07, at 2:29 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

> - the thread on the iPhone touches on a larger and more complex  
> issue of 'marketing' and how people are trained (via the media) to  
> respond psychologically to the money lubricated mechanisms of  
> manipulation that corporations use to fleece the public
>
> - corporations prey on our naiveté and childlike propensity to  
> mystify and be mystified by new complex accumulations of symbols  
> (mobile phone + touch-screen = must-have gadget)
>
> when I hear the term 'marketing' I take it to mean the ability to  
> manipulate the media in order to project an 'aura' which arouses a  
> state of desire and fetishism in the consumer
>
> - 'marketing' is much more complex than simply issuing an announcement
> while its quaint to quote the dictionary, real-world/working  
> definitions are much too complex to encapsulate in a single sound- 
> bite from the dictionary
>
> real-world marketing is a carefully constructed admixture of  
> multiple nodes (a network) that creates the 'presence' or 'aura' of  
> an object
> in the essay: "Grain, Sequence, System: three levels of reception  
> in the performance of laptop music"
> (it's on the microsound Wiki if people want to read it)
> I point out that it is the  _combination_  of TV advertising, music  
> videos, web presence, press releases, CD displays at big-box  
> stores, etc that creates a 'network of aura' for a pop-star such as  
> Madonna
> in which the individual nodes exchange energy - i.e., a synergistic  
> network which creates desire is formed by its combined power
>
> the iPhone is no different
> as Apple has placed the fetish of the iPhone appropriately in all  
> the Internet locations where it would solicit the correct market  
> response of desire
>
> there is an interesting book on the marketing of music tech titled:
> 'Any Sound You Can Imagine: Making Music/Consuming Technology' by  
> Paul Theberge
> http://tinyurl.com/2rtk9p
>
> which analyzes how musicians consume technology
>
> the point is to think critically about consumption
> and not fall prey to the the fetishism created by corporate  
> marketing dept's
>
>


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isjtar wrote:
> exactly. besides i've still to meet a laptop performer who doesn't get 
> kicks from new tech.

i'm a laptop performer. i don't get kicks from new technology.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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exactly. besides i've still to meet a laptop performer who doesn't  
get kicks from new tech.
yes it's marketing, yes it's bourgeois, but it has nice tech and  
could be great to hack with a version of linux + pd - if possible of  
course.
the integration of technology in the thing is pretty nice even if i  
loathe the over flashy smoothness.
here's ten bucks most of us own a mac and now don't go pretending the  
marketing didn't get to you....



Op 21-jan-07, om 21:24 heeft xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx het volgende geschreven:

> Okay, you don't like the iPhone, we get it already.
>
> Johan.
>
>
>> - the thread on the iPhone touches on a larger and more complex issue
>> of 'marketing' and how people are trained (via the media) to respond
>> psychologically to the money lubricated mechanisms of manipulation
>> that corporations use to fleece the public
>>
>> - corporations prey on our naiveté and childlike propensity to
>> mystify and be mystified by new complex accumulations of symbols
>> (mobile phone + touch-screen = must-have gadget)
>>
>> when I hear the term 'marketing' I take it to mean the ability to
>> manipulate the media in order to project an 'aura' which arouses a
>> state of desire and fetishism in the consumer
>>
>> - 'marketing' is much more complex than simply issuing an  
>> announcement
>> while its quaint to quote the dictionary, real-world/working
>> definitions are much too complex to encapsulate in a single sound-
>> bite from the dictionary
>>
>> real-world marketing is a carefully constructed admixture of multiple
>> nodes (a network) that creates the 'presence' or 'aura' of an object
>> in the essay: "Grain, Sequence, System: three levels of reception in
>> the performance of laptop music"
>> (it's on the microsound Wiki if people want to read it)
>> I point out that it is the  _combination_  of TV advertising, music
>> videos, web presence, press releases, CD displays at big-box stores,
>> etc that creates a 'network of aura' for a pop-star such as Madonna
>> in which the individual nodes exchange energy - i.e., a synergistic
>> network which creates desire is formed by its combined power
>>
>> the iPhone is no different
>> as Apple has placed the fetish of the iPhone appropriately in all the
>> Internet locations where it would solicit the correct market response
>> of desire
>>
>> there is an interesting book on the marketing of music tech titled:
>> 'Any Sound You Can Imagine: Making Music/Consuming Technology' by
>> Paul Theberge
>> http://tinyurl.com/2rtk9p
>>
>> which analyzes how musicians consume technology
>>
>> the point is to think critically about consumption
>> and not fall prey to the the fetishism created by corporate marketing
>> dept's
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>


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From ???@??? Sun Jan 21 21:57:27 2007
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This is interesting. Thank you for defining your terms more precisely.
It's easy to confuse ideas and arguments when definitions are not
presented and agreed upon prior to debate.

I'm personally curious how companies use marketing to perpetuate the
'society of debt,' which encourages all walks of life in the United
States to relinquish financial freedoms in the 'interest' of acquiring
loans to pay for goods that they cannot immediately afford (no pun
intended).

It seems like debt has permeated our entire society: military
spending, education, vehicle and home ownership, consumer credit,
medical expenses, etc. I think that the type of marketing you refer to
here is definitely a culprit in more than one of these symptoms of
excess that an Instant Gratification Society exhibits.

~Kyle

On 1/21/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> - the thread on the iPhone touches on a larger and more complex issue
> of 'marketing' and how people are trained (via the media) to respond
> psychologically to the money lubricated mechanisms of manipulation
> that corporations use to fleece the public
>
> - corporations prey on our naiveté and childlike propensity to
> mystify and be mystified by new complex accumulations of symbols
> (mobile phone + touch-screen = must-have gadget)
>
> when I hear the term 'marketing' I take it to mean the ability to
> manipulate the media in order to project an 'aura' which arouses a
> state of desire and fetishism in the consumer
>
> - 'marketing' is much more complex than simply issuing an announcement
> while its quaint to quote the dictionary, real-world/working
> definitions are much too complex to encapsulate in a single sound-
> bite from the dictionary
>
> real-world marketing is a carefully constructed admixture of multiple
> nodes (a network) that creates the 'presence' or 'aura' of an object
> in the essay: "Grain, Sequence, System: three levels of reception in
> the performance of laptop music"
> (it's on the microsound Wiki if people want to read it)
> I point out that it is the  _combination_  of TV advertising, music
> videos, web presence, press releases, CD displays at big-box stores,
> etc that creates a 'network of aura' for a pop-star such as Madonna
> in which the individual nodes exchange energy - i.e., a synergistic
> network which creates desire is formed by its combined power
>
> the iPhone is no different
> as Apple has placed the fetish of the iPhone appropriately in all the
> Internet locations where it would solicit the correct market response
> of desire
>
> there is an interesting book on the marketing of music tech titled:
> 'Any Sound You Can Imagine: Making Music/Consuming Technology' by
> Paul Theberge
> http://tinyurl.com/2rtk9p
>
> which analyzes how musicians consume technology
>
> the point is to think critically about consumption
> and not fall prey to the the fetishism created by corporate marketing
> dept's
>
>
>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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From ???@??? Sun Jan 21 20:24:12 2007
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Okay, you don't like the iPhone, we get it already.

Johan.


> - the thread on the iPhone touches on a larger and more complex issue
> of 'marketing' and how people are trained (via the media) to respond
> psychologically to the money lubricated mechanisms of manipulation
> that corporations use to fleece the public
>
> - corporations prey on our naiveté and childlike propensity to
> mystify and be mystified by new complex accumulations of symbols
> (mobile phone + touch-screen = must-have gadget)
>
> when I hear the term 'marketing' I take it to mean the ability to
> manipulate the media in order to project an 'aura' which arouses a
> state of desire and fetishism in the consumer
>
> - 'marketing' is much more complex than simply issuing an announcement
> while its quaint to quote the dictionary, real-world/working
> definitions are much too complex to encapsulate in a single sound-
> bite from the dictionary
>
> real-world marketing is a carefully constructed admixture of multiple
> nodes (a network) that creates the 'presence' or 'aura' of an object
> in the essay: "Grain, Sequence, System: three levels of reception in
> the performance of laptop music"
> (it's on the microsound Wiki if people want to read it)
> I point out that it is the  _combination_  of TV advertising, music
> videos, web presence, press releases, CD displays at big-box stores,
> etc that creates a 'network of aura' for a pop-star such as Madonna
> in which the individual nodes exchange energy - i.e., a synergistic
> network which creates desire is formed by its combined power
>
> the iPhone is no different
> as Apple has placed the fetish of the iPhone appropriately in all the
> Internet locations where it would solicit the correct market response
> of desire
>
> there is an interesting book on the marketing of music tech titled:
> 'Any Sound You Can Imagine: Making Music/Consuming Technology' by
> Paul Theberge
> http://tinyurl.com/2rtk9p
>
> which analyzes how musicians consume technology
>
> the point is to think critically about consumption
> and not fall prey to the the fetishism created by corporate marketing
> dept's
>
>
>



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From ???@??? Sun Jan 21 19:29:26 2007
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--Boundary_(ID_6RK0KKqw9BNEifobx7CQsQ)
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

- the thread on the iPhone touches on a larger and more complex issue  
of 'marketing' and how people are trained (via the media) to respond  
psychologically to the money lubricated mechanisms of manipulation  
that corporations use to fleece the public

- corporations prey on our naiveté and childlike propensity to  
mystify and be mystified by new complex accumulations of symbols  
(mobile phone + touch-screen = must-have gadget)

when I hear the term 'marketing' I take it to mean the ability to  
manipulate the media in order to project an 'aura' which arouses a  
state of desire and fetishism in the consumer

- 'marketing' is much more complex than simply issuing an announcement
while its quaint to quote the dictionary, real-world/working  
definitions are much too complex to encapsulate in a single sound- 
bite from the dictionary

real-world marketing is a carefully constructed admixture of multiple  
nodes (a network) that creates the 'presence' or 'aura' of an object
in the essay: "Grain, Sequence, System: three levels of reception in  
the performance of laptop music"
(it's on the microsound Wiki if people want to read it)
I point out that it is the  _combination_  of TV advertising, music  
videos, web presence, press releases, CD displays at big-box stores,  
etc that creates a 'network of aura' for a pop-star such as Madonna
in which the individual nodes exchange energy - i.e., a synergistic  
network which creates desire is formed by its combined power

the iPhone is no different
as Apple has placed the fetish of the iPhone appropriately in all the  
Internet locations where it would solicit the correct market response  
of desire

there is an interesting book on the marketing of music tech titled:
'Any Sound You Can Imagine: Making Music/Consuming Technology' by  
Paul Theberge
http://tinyurl.com/2rtk9p

which analyzes how musicians consume technology

the point is to think critically about consumption
and not fall prey to the the fetishism created by corporate marketing  
dept's


--Boundary_(ID_6RK0KKqw9BNEifobx7CQsQ)--

From ???@??? Sun Jan 21 15:49:15 2007
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From: mattyo <xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] [ot] travel grants for US artists with overseas
 residencies?
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You can tell from the below posts that the actual answer to your post  
is "not really."  Meet the Composer has something called Global  
Connections that's worth looking at, and the Jerome Foundation does  
something as well.  Another group called CEC ArtsLink funds stuf to  
Eastern Europe & central asia, but it's not just for gigs -- you need  
to do some kind of co-project with the locals.

None of these are very useful if you get invited to some underfunded  
festival in western Europe, however -- they tend to be more oriented  
towards places that have less money sloshing around.  There is no  
American Pro Helvetia -- we are only concerned about exporting  
Hollywood culture.

\M


On Jan 20, 2007, at 1:01, Kyle Klipowicz wrote:

> Same here (although Pd on iPhone would be drool-worthy ;-) ).
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 1/19/07, Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> Not all that off-topic and certainly more interesting than wanking
>> about a mobile toy for yuppies with too much money. If replies to
>> this query are off-list, I'd like to be included in the off.
>>
>> R..
>>
>>
>> >Sorry for the offtopic query,
>> >
>> >but this seemed about the best place I knew to ask:  any american  
>> artists
>> >know of travel grants available for american artists with  
>> residencies
>> >overseas?
>> >
>> >It seems in enlightended parts of the world one's gov't often  
>> will offer
>> >travel support to artists going abroad.
>> >
>> >I can't imagine that my own does, but hope there may be NPOs or  
>> NGOs that
>> >do...?
>> >
>> >Taking replies off-list might be best given the OT-nature of the
>> >question...
>> >
>> >  thanks!
>> >
>> >   aaron
>> >
>> >   xxxxx@xxxx.xxx
>> >   http://www.quietamerican.org
>> >
>> >   |  quod omne animal post   |
>> >   |  cogitum est triste...   |
>> >
>> >
>> >-------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> -
>> >To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> >For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> >website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> Website: http://www.warbaby.com
>> (Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not  
>> work yet.)
>> Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
>> Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
>> --
>>
>> "Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would
>> permit us to be pirates."
>>
>>           - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> http://theradioproject.com
> http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
>
> (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
> (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
> ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
> _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
> ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
>
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http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/gadgets/experimental-touchscreen-makes- 
iphone-look-like-a-toy-229965.php

http://tinyurl.com/2t5psn
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http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001586.html
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do we get to choose who we can call, at least?

g.

the new apple iphone: steve jobs is listening™


On 20-Jan-07, at 5:14 PM, Eloy Anzola wrote:

>
> Apple, so far, plans to basically control every aspect of the  
> iPhone experience.
>
> Eloy
>  -----
> xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>
>


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There's apparantely a small distinction, what runs on our Apple  
computers is "Mac OS X", the iPhone will run "OS X".

Apple, so far, plans to basically control every aspect of the iPhone  
experience.

Eloy
  -----
xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx




On Jan 19, 2007, at 4:32 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

>
> On Jan 19, 2007, at 3:15 AM, xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx  
> wrote:
>
>> You _doubt_? You don't _know_?
>> I _know_ - It uses OS X widgets.
> actually my friend - who is a senior programmer at Apple Inc. -  
> just confirmed that widgets that work on OS X  *WILL NOT*,  I  
> repeat, WILL NOT work on the iPhone.
> sorry, but your 'knowledge' is wrong
>
>> So I suggest you read the articles I posted previously and educate  
>> yourself.
>> Or stay off the subject until you do.  Either way.
>> Whatever.  Free country.
> a free market in a free country where free individuals live!
> viva la Chavez! :)
>
>


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Now we're on to something... skiing... now there's something we can  
all agree to hate.

slithering down some snow covered slope listening to iPods no  
doubt... listening to terrible music.
music they probably PAID for on iTunes. DRM protected music... Death  
to the skiers!!!


On Jan 20, 2007, at 3:57 AM, Steven McLeod wrote:

> I don't know who's more of a cunt. Him, or the sycophants who lap  
> up whatever swill he tosses at them. Cunts who shop on the king's  
> road and go skiing.
>

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http://www.jimmyr.com/blog/hearingloss.html

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Just to at flames to a smolderingly shite thread, I would like to draw your attention to this quote from,
http://www.holymoly.co.uk/index.php?option=com_glossary&func=display&Itemid=3&catid=14
        STEVE JOBS-He's an outrageous cunt who palms other people's ideas off as his own. Nokia and Sony Ericsson already have a phone out that's better than the iPhone  but because it's not an Apple product the media don't give 2 shits and everyone assumes Jobs has single-handedly invented not only the mobile phone but touchscreen technology, the internet, digital music, gravity, oxygen and the ecosystem. I don't know who's more of a cunt. Him, or the sycophants who lap up whatever swill he tosses at them. Cunts who shop on the king's road and go skiing. 

--Boundary_(ID_nZzIMmo4T4buyAKb7rpO4g)--

From ???@??? Sat Jan 20 06:01:31 2007
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Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2007 00:01:19 -0600
From: Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] [ot] travel grants for US artists with overseas
 residencies?
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Same here (although Pd on iPhone would be drool-worthy ;-) ).

~Kyle

On 1/19/07, Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Not all that off-topic and certainly more interesting than wanking
> about a mobile toy for yuppies with too much money. If replies to
> this query are off-list, I'd like to be included in the off.
>
> R..
>
>
> >Sorry for the offtopic query,
> >
> >but this seemed about the best place I knew to ask:  any american artists
> >know of travel grants available for american artists with residencies
> >overseas?
> >
> >It seems in enlightended parts of the world one's gov't often will offer
> >travel support to artists going abroad.
> >
> >I can't imagine that my own does, but hope there may be NPOs or NGOs that
> >do...?
> >
> >Taking replies off-list might be best given the OT-nature of the
> >question...
> >
> >  thanks!
> >
> >   aaron
> >
> >   xxxxx@xxxx.xxx
> >   http://www.quietamerican.org
> >
> >   |  quod omne animal post   |
> >   |  cogitum est triste...   |
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >website: http://www.microsound.org
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>
> --
>
> --
> Website: http://www.warbaby.com
> (Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
> Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
> Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
> --
>
> "Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would
> permit us to be pirates."
>
>           - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
>
>
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-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

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From ???@??? Sat Jan 20 03:51:43 2007
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From: Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] [ot] travel grants for US artists with overseas
 residencies?
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Not all that off-topic and certainly more interesting than wanking 
about a mobile toy for yuppies with too much money. If replies to 
this query are off-list, I'd like to be included in the off.

R..


>Sorry for the offtopic query,
>
>but this seemed about the best place I knew to ask:  any american artists
>know of travel grants available for american artists with residencies
>overseas?
>
>It seems in enlightended parts of the world one's gov't often will offer
>travel support to artists going abroad.
>
>I can't imagine that my own does, but hope there may be NPOs or NGOs that
>do...?
>
>Taking replies off-list might be best given the OT-nature of the
>question...
>
>  thanks!
>
>   aaron
>
>   xxxxx@xxxx.xxx
>   http://www.quietamerican.org
>
>   |  quod omne animal post   |
>   |  cogitum est triste...   |
>
>
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>website: http://www.microsound.org


-- 

--
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(Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
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"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would 
permit us to be pirates."

          - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi


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From ???@??? Fri Jan 19 23:30:39 2007
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Sorry for the offtopic query,

but this seemed about the best place I knew to ask:  any american artists
know of travel grants available for american artists with residencies
overseas?

It seems in enlightended parts of the world one's gov't often will offer
travel support to artists going abroad.

I can't imagine that my own does, but hope there may be NPOs or NGOs that
do...?

Taking replies off-list might be best given the OT-nature of the
question...

 thanks!

  aaron

  xxxxx@xxxx.xxx
  http://www.quietamerican.org

  |  quod omne animal post   |
  |  cogitum est triste...   |


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From ???@??? Fri Jan 19 21:32:27 2007
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On Jan 19, 2007, at 3:15 AM, xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx wrote:

> You _doubt_? You don't _know_?
> I _know_ - It uses OS X widgets.
actually my friend - who is a senior programmer at Apple Inc. - just  
confirmed that widgets that work on OS X  *WILL NOT*,  I repeat, WILL  
NOT work on the iPhone.
sorry, but your 'knowledge' is wrong

> So I suggest you read the articles I posted previously and educate  
> yourself.
> Or stay off the subject until you do.  Either way.
> Whatever.  Free country.
a free market in a free country where free individuals live!
viva la Chavez! :)


--Boundary_(ID_ITKLFSWXsJyKkwgYOY9jeA)--

From ???@??? Fri Jan 19 20:41:30 2007
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Luckily, Pure Data has already been compiled for ARM processors in the
form of PDa.

http://gige.xdv.org/pda/
http://gige.xdv.org/pda/ICMC2003.pdf

Calling an 'announcement' 'marketing' is more of a tongue-in-cheek
jibe than a sincere accusation. Again though, marketing is defined in
one way(googleing 'define:marketing') as a "means to make a
communication about a product or service a purpose of which is to
encourage recipients of the communication to purchase or use the
product or service."

So If you're selling a CD, and distribute information regarding the
contents, price and how to purchase it... ;-)

A press kit is a marketing tool, from what I can tell. But what's
wrong with that? If you are in a business or non-profit and you don't
market your services/products, then success != likely.

~Kyle

On 1/19/07, Kim Cascone <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> my announcing a new release does not constitute marketing
> but judging from the usual reductionist reactions on this list I
> suppose it would look that way
> and since the iPhone uses an ARM processor - and not a PPC - I would
> venture a hunch that one would have to recompile anything for OS X to
> get it to work on the iPhone version of OS X -- in other words you
> won't be able to just drag a plain vanilla widget onto your iPhone
> and expect it to work...
> e.g., different OS services, different math (integer vs floating
> point), different function calls, etc.
> I'm having lunch with a friend of mine next week down at Apple (they
> have a great cafeteria!) and will ask him for more details then...
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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From ???@??? Fri Jan 19 16:13:16 2007
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my announcing a new release does not constitute marketing
but judging from the usual reductionist reactions on this list I  
suppose it would look that way
and since the iPhone uses an ARM processor - and not a PPC - I would  
venture a hunch that one would have to recompile anything for OS X to  
get it to work on the iPhone version of OS X -- in other words you  
won't be able to just drag a plain vanilla widget onto your iPhone  
and expect it to work...
e.g., different OS services, different math (integer vs floating  
point), different function calls, etc.
I'm having lunch with a friend of mine next week down at Apple (they  
have a great cafeteria!) and will ask him for more details then...


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDnIajyXDLs&mode=related&search=
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From ???@??? Thu Jan 18 18:35:56 2007
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 13:35:45 -0500
From: aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] Extrapolating into the moment of Saddam's death
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The grim subject matter does not bother me even though i know some may 
be offended by it.

Having said that, i really liked this piece a lot.  Very  gripping.

I think if it would be imbedded into a flash piece that had text synced 
to the audio via code/action scripting it would be even more effective. 
  Simple text builds no different then the intro/descriptions you have 
on your site before the listener/visitor presses the download button.  
Just a friendly suggestion!

aLEKs






On Jan 18, 2007, at 1:22 PM, Thomas Ashcraft wrote:

>
> In light of the recent thread on cellphones as recorders I am posting 
> a short sketch  .mp3 with a sonic extrapolation into the moment of 
> Saddam's death by hanging.
>
> This piece may lean more towards hybrid phonography but it does have a 
> pulsing microsound middle.
>
> http://www.heliotown.com/Possible_Bardo_of_Saddam.html
>
> 4 minutes  4 seconds
>
> NOTE :   Due to morbid sonic content, please do not listen to this 
> piece while high or in a state of altered consciousness.
>
> Thomas Ashcraft
>
>
>
>
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From ???@??? Thu Jan 18 18:22:18 2007
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 11:22:06 -0700
From: Thomas Ashcraft <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] Extrapolating into the moment of Saddam's death
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In light of the recent thread on cellphones as recorders I am posting a 
short sketch  .mp3 with a sonic extrapolation into the moment of 
Saddam's death by hanging.

This piece may lean more towards hybrid phonography but it does have a 
pulsing microsound middle.

http://www.heliotown.com/Possible_Bardo_of_Saddam.html

4 minutes  4 seconds

NOTE :   Due to morbid sonic content, please do not listen to this piece 
while high or in a state of altered consciousness.

Thomas Ashcraft




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From ???@??? Thu Jan 18 16:58:13 2007
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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] Creating video with a circuit bent Casio Sk-1
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http://www.getlofi.com/?p=684

The circuit is simply a diode to prevent the back flow of current and
a resistor to drop the +5 Volt logic gate to a +1 Volt required for
generating a video signal. The color of the pixel is determined by the
voltage in between 0 ( Black ) and 1 ( White ), so if multiple points
on the ROM chip were mixed with various resistor values color images
will occur. Gijs' result is a series of lines that appear on a monitor
in a scrolling fashion. The resulting image is neat and in sync with
the sounds generated, however it is out of sync with the screen. The
NTSC and PAL video standards require a sync pulse to be sent every so
often, without it the image will scroll. Very nice work and I am sure
that this technique will work with other circuit bent devices.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU_SB88RXTw

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From ???@??? Thu Jan 18 15:15:07 2007
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Date: Thu, 18 Jan 2007 10:14:46 -0500
From: Brent Colflesh <xxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] ***world community grid***
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This is a great project - I started when it was still grid.org - I'm 
currently at:

1 year: 185 days: 13 h: 21 m: 39 s

on WCG, user "bcolflesh".

Thanks for publicizing this project on the list!

Regards,
Brent

Kim Cascone wrote:
> List member Mel has started a glitch team over at the World Community Grid.
> 
> This is a project that is using networked computer's downtime to
> process potential HIV and AIDS medicines. Many other projects are
> also ongoing relating to genome comparison and human/pathogen
> protein research. WCG uses BOINC software like the more famous SETI
> project, or can also work with a simpler standalone agent for
> processing tasks.
> 
> I encourage members of the microsound list to join up and pool their 
> computer
> resources.
> 
> http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=7BS4ZCMFR1
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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List member Mel has started a glitch team over at the World Community  
Grid.

This is a project that is using networked computer's downtime to
process potential HIV and AIDS medicines. Many other projects are
also ongoing relating to genome comparison and human/pathogen
protein research. WCG uses BOINC software like the more famous SETI
project, or can also work with a simpler standalone agent for
processing tasks.

I encourage members of the microsound list to join up and pool their  
computer
resources.

http://www.worldcommunitygrid.org/team/viewTeamInfo.do?teamId=7BS4ZCMFR1
--Boundary_(ID_YJ0V8wHvn+9XtzRjbrWu2g)--

From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 20:23:04 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] marketing is manipulation
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It depends on what you define as manipulation. I think that marketing
is fine, and necessary if you want to communicate anything to anyone.

As artists, how can we share our work through performance or
recordings if we don't market them in some way?

My prior post was just to point out that there's a tad bit of
cognitive dissonance coming from a position that says "marketing is
manipulation," but then also chooses to market his own works on a
mailing list. Bold statements like that are great eyeball grabbers,
but usually fall flat under any kind of analysis.

~Kyle

On 1/17/07, Milan Davidovic <xxxxx.xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> On 1/17/07, Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > If marketing is manipulation, is posting an announcement of your
> > newest CD on an unnamed niche mailing list (twice even!) manipulative?
>
> Is manipulation always bad?
>
>
> --
> Milan Davidovic
> http://altmilan.blogspot.com
> http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758
>
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>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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On 1/17/07, Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> If marketing is manipulation, is posting an announcement of your
> newest CD on an unnamed niche mailing list (twice even!) manipulative?

Is manipulation always bad?


-- 
Milan Davidovic
http://altmilan.blogspot.com
http://www.terminus1525.ca/studio/view/2758

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If marketing is manipulation, is posting an announcement of your
newest CD on an unnamed niche mailing list (twice even!) manipulative?

~Kyle

On 1/17/07, Kyle Klipowicz <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> These are some great little links! I love the dub selecta one. 'Bigup massive.'
>
> ~Kyle
>
> On 1/17/07, Autodot <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > I think what we all want to really know is:
> >
> > Are there any browser based programs a la Supercollider (or even
> > Hammerhead) ?
> >
> > What is the most flexible web based audio performance software?
> >
> > Just to get things rolling I found
> >
> > TOYS
> > http://www.clockdin.com (for it's simplicity)
> > http://nukes.org/santos/construct/construct0.swf (cheaper than going to
> > Mutek)
> > http://www.infinitewheel.com/infinite_wheel.html (duuub)
> >
> > SEQUENCERS
> > http://splicemusic.com/music
> >
> > APIS
> > http://www.devx.com/projectcool/Article/16425
> > http://jssoundkit.sourceforge.net/
> >
> > & here is the scream sample from Children of Men
> > http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=9432
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
>
>
> --
>
> http://theradioproject.com
> http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com
>
> (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
> (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
> ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
> _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
> ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 19:50:19 2007
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These are some great little links! I love the dub selecta one. 'Bigup massive.'

~Kyle

On 1/17/07, Autodot <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I think what we all want to really know is:
>
> Are there any browser based programs a la Supercollider (or even
> Hammerhead) ?
>
> What is the most flexible web based audio performance software?
>
> Just to get things rolling I found
>
> TOYS
> http://www.clockdin.com (for it's simplicity)
> http://nukes.org/santos/construct/construct0.swf (cheaper than going to
> Mutek)
> http://www.infinitewheel.com/infinite_wheel.html (duuub)
>
> SEQUENCERS
> http://splicemusic.com/music
>
> APIS
> http://www.devx.com/projectcool/Article/16425
> http://jssoundkit.sourceforge.net/
>
> & here is the scream sample from Children of Men
> http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=9432
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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Yeah i think i will, and i am going to try and convert it into a cheeky 
looking Vespa.  But mark my words, if this is not doable there will be 
hell to pay, a good what for should put Mr Jobs in his place.

aLEKs


On Jan 17, 2007, at 12:14 PM, Graham Miller wrote:

> you must buy this phone.
> there is no choice.
> steve jobs has spoken.
> resistance is futile.
>
> On 17-Jan-07, at 11:56 AM, aleks vasic wrote:
>
>> Its a Phone people, not a developers platform.  The fact of the 
>> matter is that it does more then phones like the Treo do, for about 
>> the same price and a way easier learning curve.  People who have the 
>> need for a phone that is a tool for business can get a lot more for 
>> their money then what is currently in the market place.  Your 
>> purchase should be predicated by your needs/necessities.
>> I work with a lot of business types who cant wait to get their hands 
>> on it just for the ease of use and efficiency.  These types cant go 
>> anywhere without their Treos and similar phones.  Its how they do 
>> business.  I wont be getting one anytime soon because i do not have a 
>> need for it.  I hate cell phones because you can be found/contacted 
>> at all times.  That doesnt mean i need to disparage the product 
>> because i do not have a need for it, or because it doesnt do what i 
>> WISHED it did.  This list gets more and more amusing...
>>
>>
>> aLEKs


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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 18:52:09 2007
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had you ever actually written any code, you wouldn't be on like this
Jason.  "widget", "hack", etc.  

you can't take advantage of the features that make this device
interesting to media artists with a "widget".  endy story.

On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 11:08 -0600, Jason Hollis wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kim Cascone" <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> To: "microsound_list" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:20 AM
> Subject: [microsound] marketing is manipulation
> 
> >I doubt that widgets that work on full-bodied OS X will also work on
> > the iPhone OS X
> 
> You _doubt_? You don't _know_?
> I _know_ - It uses OS X widgets.
> Read the other articles I posted, or do some searching.
> 
> 
> > http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/jobs-says-apple-iphone-os-x-not-open-like-mac/
> 
> Awful article, pooly researched.
> 
> That's correct, its not wide open for development yet like the mac.
> But neither is it hardware-closed like the xbox, impossible to alter.
> It's 'closed' like the iPod, where you CAN change its functions, but its not 
> officially sanctioned or supported.
> 
> Apparently this is a subtle distinction, as many steamroller right over it.
> The author of that article, for example.
> 
> Either is a device that,  yes, Apple doesnt officially sanction adding 
> software to it (yet) as they want it to be stable and function well as what 
> it was intended to be - an mp3 player or a fancy early-adopter smartphone.
> 
> And yet, people ARE already hacking new functions into the iPod.
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ipod+hack
> 
> And they WILL do the same with the iPhone.
> Because its NOT completely closed off, as I've gone into at great length.
> Of course, the iPhone hardware has far greater functionality than a mere 
> iPod, and therefore its potential is greater.
> 
> Thus, this thread.
> 
> Apple just wont support it - YET.
> Which is where you and others keep getting 'closed'.
> And why would they?   This is re-tasking and hacking, to varying degrees.
> This has been my point all along, had you deigned to read any of the 
> material I provided.
> 
> And as for hardware add ons - it uses the iPod digital interface.
> Thousands of products use this interface:
> http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories.html
> 
> So I suggest you read the articles I posted previously and educate yourself.
> Or stay off the subject until you do.  Either way.
> Whatever.  Free country.
> 
> 
> ~!J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
-- 
Mechanize something idiosyncratic.



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On 17/01/2007, at 3.55, David Powers wrote:

> I'd
> probably rather have a pen and a paper, than an iPhone. I'd get more
> done with the former. I often code little programs on the bus while
> riding to work every day that way, and plan musical compositions too.

You'd probably (like me) like the Paper PDA [1] which might (read:  
would) be nice in combination with the Rainbow Technology [2].

[1] http://enb.mcgill.ca/docs/paperpda.htm
[2] http://www.arabnews.com/? 
page=4§ion=0&article=88962&d=18&m=11&y=2006


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I think what we all want to really know is:

Are there any browser based programs a la Supercollider (or even 
Hammerhead) ?

What is the most flexible web based audio performance software?

Just to get things rolling I found

TOYS
http://www.clockdin.com (for it's simplicity)
http://nukes.org/santos/construct/construct0.swf (cheaper than going to 
Mutek)
http://www.infinitewheel.com/infinite_wheel.html (duuub)

SEQUENCERS
http://splicemusic.com/music

APIS
http://www.devx.com/projectcool/Article/16425
http://jssoundkit.sourceforge.net/

& here is the scream sample from Children of Men
http://freesound.iua.upf.edu/samplesViewSingle.php?id=9432

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 17:15:00 2007
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you must buy this phone.
there is no choice.
steve jobs has spoken.
resistance is futile.

On 17-Jan-07, at 11:56 AM, aleks vasic wrote:

> Its a Phone people, not a developers platform.  The fact of the  
> matter is that it does more then phones like the Treo do, for about  
> the same price and a way easier learning curve.  People who have  
> the need for a phone that is a tool for business can get a lot more  
> for their money then what is currently in the market place.  Your  
> purchase should be predicated by your needs/necessities.
> I work with a lot of business types who cant wait to get their  
> hands on it just for the ease of use and efficiency.  These types  
> cant go anywhere without their Treos and similar phones.  Its how  
> they do business.  I wont be getting one anytime soon because i do  
> not have a need for it.  I hate cell phones because you can be  
> found/contacted at all times.  That doesnt mean i need to disparage  
> the product because i do not have a need for it, or because it  
> doesnt do what i WISHED it did.  This list gets more and more  
> amusing...
>
>
> aLEKs
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jan 17, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Kim Cascone wrote:
>
>> I doubt that widgets that work on full-bodied OS X will also work  
>> on the iPhone OS X
>>
>> http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/jobs-says-apple-iphone-os-x- 
>> not-open-like-mac/
>>
>>


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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kim Cascone" <xxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound_list" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 10:20 AM
Subject: [microsound] marketing is manipulation

>I doubt that widgets that work on full-bodied OS X will also work on
> the iPhone OS X

You _doubt_? You don't _know_?
I _know_ - It uses OS X widgets.
Read the other articles I posted, or do some searching.


> http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/jobs-says-apple-iphone-os-x-not-open-like-mac/

Awful article, pooly researched.

That's correct, its not wide open for development yet like the mac.
But neither is it hardware-closed like the xbox, impossible to alter.
It's 'closed' like the iPod, where you CAN change its functions, but its not 
officially sanctioned or supported.

Apparently this is a subtle distinction, as many steamroller right over it.
The author of that article, for example.

Either is a device that,  yes, Apple doesnt officially sanction adding 
software to it (yet) as they want it to be stable and function well as what 
it was intended to be - an mp3 player or a fancy early-adopter smartphone.

And yet, people ARE already hacking new functions into the iPod.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ipod+hack

And they WILL do the same with the iPhone.
Because its NOT completely closed off, as I've gone into at great length.
Of course, the iPhone hardware has far greater functionality than a mere 
iPod, and therefore its potential is greater.

Thus, this thread.

Apple just wont support it - YET.
Which is where you and others keep getting 'closed'.
And why would they?   This is re-tasking and hacking, to varying degrees.
This has been my point all along, had you deigned to read any of the 
material I provided.

And as for hardware add ons - it uses the iPod digital interface.
Thousands of products use this interface:
http://www.apple.com/ipod/accessories.html

So I suggest you read the articles I posted previously and educate yourself.
Or stay off the subject until you do.  Either way.
Whatever.  Free country.


~!J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com








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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 16:56:50 2007
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Its a Phone people, not a developers platform.  The fact of the matter  
is that it does more then phones like the Treo do, for about the same  
price and a way easier learning curve.  People who have the need for a  
phone that is a tool for business can get a lot more for their money  
then what is currently in the market place.  Your purchase should be  
predicated by your needs/necessities.
I work with a lot of business types who cant wait to get their hands on  
it just for the ease of use and efficiency.  These types cant go  
anywhere without their Treos and similar phones.  Its how they do  
business.  I wont be getting one anytime soon because i do not have a  
need for it.  I hate cell phones because you can be found/contacted at  
all times.  That doesnt mean i need to disparage the product because i  
do not have a need for it, or because it doesnt do what i WISHED it  
did.  This list gets more and more amusing...


aLEKs





On Jan 17, 2007, at 11:20 AM, Kim Cascone wrote:

> I doubt that widgets that work on full-bodied OS X will also work on  
> the iPhone OS X
>
> http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/jobs-says-apple-iphone-os-x-not- 
> open-like-mac/
>
>
--Boundary_(ID_0aysx6nhFHoUNdqmdrPsOA)--

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I doubt that widgets that work on full-bodied OS X will also work on  
the iPhone OS X

http://www.slipperybrick.com/2007/01/jobs-says-apple-iphone-os-x-not- 
open-like-mac/


--Boundary_(ID_wYEKrYWc6io+TsH25TP07g)--

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*Yawn*  So this is the part where we start putting words in each others 
mouths?

Prior to that I said that as distasteful as it is, Apple's DRM is far less 
draconian than, say Microsofts or Sonys, and that I'd never had a problem 
with either yet.

~!J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Frank Barknecht" <xxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 17, 2007 3:36 AM
Subject: Re: [microsound] iPhone iSux


> Hallo,
> Jason Hollis hat gesagt: // Jason Hollis wrote:
>
>> Yes, well, that's DRM.  Doesnt effect me, I run PCs and macs. YMMV.
>
> Do you really believe, that DRM only affects freaky Linux users? Dream
> on, Jason.
>
> Ciao
> -- 
> Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
>
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>
> 



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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 11:46:12 2007
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Jason,

I don't know what potential you see, but what there is, is certainly way 
short of what the processor inside the thing would let you do with free 
reign.

Basically those widgets mean that about the heaviest things you'll be 
able to do are run shell scripts or talk to some server app (slowly) 
over http.

There will be no potential for audio apps without access to a compiler / 
linker for a low-level language that allows essential things like thread 
access and what have you. There may be potential for an OSC client if, 
for example, a reasonably functional version of Java is shipped, but 
this isn't promised, and nor is any guarantee that there'll be a way of 
getting these widgets to talk meaningfully to Java apps.

In short, I think you're overselling it somewhat.

About the best hope is someone writing new, open firmware for it as has 
happened for the iPod. But that's a bugger to do, so by the time it 
happens we'll all probably have moved on and be using neural controllers 
  on stage.

-- 
Owen


Jason Hollis wrote:
> I see potential and those articles confirm it, and I'll laugh all the 
> way to the stage when it is realized.   Or maybe I'll pick up coding 
> again. Whatever.  My point is made for anyone with eyes to see.  This 
> conversation is over.
> 
> ~!J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com


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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 09:36:33 2007
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Hallo,
Jason Hollis hat gesagt: // Jason Hollis wrote:

> Yes, well, that's DRM.  Doesnt effect me, I run PCs and macs. YMMV.

Do you really believe, that DRM only affects freaky Linux users? Dream
on, Jason.

Ciao
-- 
 Frank Barknecht                 _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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apple came up with the pen and paper ages ago.

in the late seventies, i believe steve jobs used these technologies  
to design the apple I computer.

the man is simply amazing. is there anything he can't do?


> . My point was that if I had to choose between the two, I'd
> probably rather have a pen and a paper, than an iPhone. I'd get more
> done with the former. I often code little programs on the bus while
> riding to work every day that way, and plan musical compositions too.
>
> ~David
> perreal.org
> website: http://www.microsound.org


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This gentleman speaks common sense and is entertaining to boot.  I
ought to check these  threads more often.

--
Kevin Paul

On 1/16/07, Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> For shits sake people.
....
> Done now.
>
> ~!J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 04:22:58 2007
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http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashboard/music/metronomic.html

Hah, no but I think there isn't that many good widgets that could take
advantage of the iPhone out right now because the iPhone isn't out yet.
But I'm sure that there will be. Especially if the phone gets popular.
There isn't any heavy widgets right now because there is no purpose of
having such application in Dashboard contra just straight up OS X.

As for the discussion, I was more aiming towards how it was like watching
a ping pong match. People just love to hate/love certain things and Apple
seem to be one of them. I'm not an Apple fanboy, but I certainly do enjoy
OS X and how it has changed my computer experience. But saying you prefer
pen and paper over the iPhone seems a bit random. Sorry.

Johan.




> Well, what does "3rd party widget" mean exactly? Maybe I'd be more
> interested if someone could give an example. I'm not a mac user, so I
> haven't a clue as to precisely what this implies. If the iPhone
> defenders could give an example of some concrete thing it might do
> that would be interesting, maybe I'd understand their point of why
> this device might be interesting for a musician. So far nobody has
> done that.
>
> Again, even I think it would be cool to use it like Lemur, but from
> what I understand that wouldn't be possible if you can't write your
> own programs for it - you'd need to send OSC (I'd even settle for
> MIDI). But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you could do with these 3rd
> party widgets?
>
> And conversations SHOULD go all over the place. That's what makes them
> interesting. My point was that if I had to choose between the two, I'd
> probably rather have a pen and a paper, than an iPhone. I'd get more
> done with the former. I often code little programs on the bus while
> riding to work every day that way, and plan musical compositions too.
>
> ~David
>
> On 1/16/07, xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx <xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
>> I think this conversation is going too much all over the place. I think
>> some people on the list, including myself even thought I personally hate
>> cell phones, think the iPhone is interesting because (even thought it
>> doesn't have a full OS X), it has a lot of possibilities when it comes
>> to
>> 3rd party widgets that can turn the thing into a lot of fun things for a
>> musician. That's it doesn't it?
>>
>> I don't see why there has to be a big discussion about it.
>>
>> Johan
>>
>>
>> >
>> > 4. In my opinion, nothing beats the power of pen/pencil and paper.
>> >
>> > ~David
>> >
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>> >
>>
>>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 04:18:43 2007
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Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2007 23:21:17 -0500
From: Doug Van Nort <xxxx@xxxxx.xxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] mcgill univ.'s "audition" requirement
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sending to the list as it has come up a couple times and so maybe of 
general interest...

Owen is right on in his overview of mcgill music tech (hi owen).  i'm 
finishing a phd there and can speak of the
grad program from the perspective of student and the undergrad as 
instructor....in doing so i can say there
is no way you could presently do the mutech major without "strong" 
classical training. you could, however, do the
minor from any other dept. (e.g. communication studies, which seems 
cool, has a few sound/media oriented faculty
  and which Tobias [van Veen] from this list  could tell you about if 
interested...).  aside from the structure of the program(s), there
is currently many top-quality (scientific) researchers converging on 
the place (see: CIRMMT), and it is worthwhile if one has the interest
and inclination to tap into these knowledge sources. In terms of the 
"artistic" side of the institution, its not that there is not (some) 
interest
in more open and current trends in music and sonic arts (example: i got 
funding recently to bring in Kim for his GA workshop to
much success...), its just that it is emerging from a classical 
environment and so is still rooted in that tradition. (if you want to 
write
'concert music' for instruments+electronics, it is a good place to 
study composition...).   One other place in MTL to exist as 
student/(sound) artist
  (and as owen mentioned), is at Concordia.  The beautifully chaotic 
thing about
this particular univ. is that they seem to have 1,001 programs doing 
similar things with digital media.  in addition to the electroacoustic
music program 
(http://music.concordia.ca/programs/Electroacoustics/default.html), 
there are (as two examples) the IMCA prog.
(http://imca.concordia.ca/) as well as the communication studies dept.  
At mutech we have had a bunch of people take courses in order
to get more "deeply" (read: theoretically, scientifically) into 
electronics, dsp, etc. and it has worked out nicely.  Finally - and if 
you speak
french - there is the electroacoustic music program at Université de 
Montréal.  jean piche and robert normandeau are there and  have some 
nice work.
The program to me seems very steeped in the "acousmatic" tradition (as 
i'll qualify it) which manifests nicely in (e.g.) Francis Dhomont
  (who used to teach at UdeM and who seems to visit often) to give one 
shining example.

hope this helps,
doug


On Jan 14, 2007, at 7:48 PM, Owen Meyers wrote:

> i completed the mcgill undergrad music technology (honours) program.  
> my instrument was classical piano, on which my proficiency was good 
> enough to get me into the music department.  i was the only person to 
> graduate from my class (started out with about 20 or so people in my 
> year).  most people tend to downgrade to the minor in music tech, or 
> switch over to sound recording.  but that was a few years ago, so 
> perhaps things have changed...
>
> the program is divided into two sections -- first you get all of the 
> formal history, theory, ear training, ensemble performance and 
> instrument lessons.  and then there's the music tech side, where you 
> do computer science, acoustics, sound recording, digital media, and 
> audio programming (max/msp, pd, supercollider, csound, etc.).
>
> the master's program, on the other hand, is geared more towards 
> computer science and electrical engineering students.  there is no 
> musical instrument requirement for this degree, and you can choose to 
> focus on one of the areas of music information retrieval, 
> human-computer + gestural interfaces, and digital signal processing.
>
> i would definitely recommend both programs, and montreal is by far my 
> favorite canadian city.  you could also look into the concordia 
> programs.  i think they have a solid electroacoustic program, as well 
> as a lot of digital media courses.
>
> best,
> owen.
>
> http://www.media.mit.edu/~meyers/
>
> On Jan 12, 2007, at 11:23 AM, t p wrote:
>
>> Good afternoon all,
>>
>> Per a previous topic to the list, I recently looked into attending 
>> the undergrad music technology program at McGill University in 
>> Montreal.  To my utter dismay, I was told that there was a mandatory 
>> audition requirement via "a standard musical instrument" tryout to be 
>> accepted into the program.
>>
>> Like some of you, I don't play an instrument as my work and study 
>> revolves around digital manipulation, sequencing, and consequent 
>> electronic production.  Needless to say, I find this requirement 
>> shocking being that the university, as a whole, is a such a hub for 
>> innovation and interpretation.
>>
>> Could anyone who has gone through this program speak on the topic a 
>> bit?   I would easily understand if my aim was to study classical 
>> composition, but being that it's a music tech program, I see this as 
>> being a bit obtuse.
>>
>> For that matter, are there any similar programs within Canada that 
>> may offer similar programs?  Unfortunately, I have yet to find any as 
>> reputable.
>>
>> I'm an aging electronic contortionist looking to find a home. :-)   
>> So I humbly appreciate all your feedback, and please feel free to 
>> email me off the list as well.
>>
>> Cheers and best wishes on your goals for the rest of the day.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>> Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
>>  with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
>
>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 04:04:51 2007
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From: Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
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 I see potential and those articles confirm it, and I'll laugh all the way 
to the stage when it is realized.   Or maybe I'll pick up coding again. 
Whatever.  My point is made for anyone with eyes to see.  This conversation 
is over.

~!J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David Powers" <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>; "Jason Hollis" 
<xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 9:55 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] iPhone iSux


> On 1/16/07, Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>> There's the aforementioned potentiality for a pocket
>> Lemurthereminsoftsynthwhatever.
>> http://developer.apple.com/macosx/dashboard.html
>> Additional nerds eye view:
>> http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/14/1835221&from=rss
>
> Based on the links just posted, there's ZERO potential for a
> Lemur/softsynth ... Widgets appear to be very UN-powerful. Basically,
> it appears you can do the equivalent of creating a fancy web page (
> that's what javascript, html, and css are normally used for), with
> access to a bit extra from OsX. I must wonder, did you actually read
> the info there? Nowhere does it say you can code anything like a real
> app, and again, that's what you need to make it into a Lemur.
>
> Unless some major music software company can be convinced to create a
> cool app for the iPhone, which I suppose is possible, it seems to have
> little multimedia use.
>
> As far as it being based on a closed software model, I must add: maybe
> you've never experienced the pleasure of coding your own apps to do
> music or multimedia art, but I assure you that once you do, it really
> changes your perspective. I'm a complete newbie at it, but I certainly
> see that as the way of the future. Someday I imagine I'll never have
> to touch mainstream software at all... From this point of view, the
> iPhone looks like a step in the wrong direction.
>
> ~David
>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 03:55:19 2007
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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] iPhone iSux
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On 1/16/07, Jason Hollis <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:

> There's the aforementioned potentiality for a pocket
> Lemurthereminsoftsynthwhatever.
> http://developer.apple.com/macosx/dashboard.html
> Additional nerds eye view:
> http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/14/1835221&from=rss

Based on the links just posted, there's ZERO potential for a
Lemur/softsynth ... Widgets appear to be very UN-powerful. Basically,
it appears you can do the equivalent of creating a fancy web page (
that's what javascript, html, and css are normally used for), with
access to a bit extra from OsX. I must wonder, did you actually read
the info there? Nowhere does it say you can code anything like a real
app, and again, that's what you need to make it into a Lemur.

Unless some major music software company can be convinced to create a
cool app for the iPhone, which I suppose is possible, it seems to have
little multimedia use.

As far as it being based on a closed software model, I must add: maybe
you've never experienced the pleasure of coding your own apps to do
music or multimedia art, but I assure you that once you do, it really
changes your perspective. I'm a complete newbie at it, but I certainly
see that as the way of the future. Someday I imagine I'll never have
to touch mainstream software at all... From this point of view, the
iPhone looks like a step in the wrong direction.

~David

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 03:40:19 2007
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For shits sake people.
All this discussion with ZERO fact checking.
Have you never heard of this magic thing called Google?

Wanna learn how to program OSX Widgets for the iPhone?  Here ya go:
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/dashboard.html
No sweat broken.

Therein we learn that.. - ooooh - HTML, JavaScript, and CSS are the  arcane 
tools needed to make new programs for the iPhone. =/
There's the aforementioned potentiality for a pocket 
Lemurthereminsoftsynthwhatever.

Additional nerds eye view:
http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/01/14/1835221&from=rss
Including debunking top ten myths.. such as the ever popular 'duuur, but you 
kant prowgram 4 it'.
Follow the links therein.

Done now.

~!J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "shift8" <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Tuesday, January 16, 2007 5:47 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] iPhone iSux


> so - what if you had a lemur that fit in your pocket, was motion
> sensitive, responded like a theremin to your proximity to it, and a
> bunch of other crap, and also ran at least one of the apps it was
> controlling locally?  now how about if it was your cell too?  that's the
> relation to the list...  the other part is about whether you can or
> can't program for it.  if there are no interpreters or compilers for the
> device, then you can't.  and that's sad.  and there aren't, and that's
> sad.
>
> On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 17:39 -0600, David Powers wrote:
>> I don't understand what's so great about an over-priced phone; if you
>> can't code for it, then it doesn't seem like something of interest to
>> artists. If you could make some kind of musical interface ala Lemur,
>> that would be of great interest, but otherwise, it really seems
>> irrelevant to the list. The over-reaction of people to the iphone
>> bashing by those who seem to have some kind of Mac fetish is
>> hilarious, I must give Mac credit for its marketing at least.
>>
>> ~David
>>
>> On 1/16/07, shift8 <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> > well, that's a given :)
>> >
>> > but really - Jason's response was holier-then-thou crap that was mostly
>> > false.  Kim's initial post was a bitchfest (but at least mostly 
>> > true...)
>> > about a new device that kicks ass for a number of reasons even if you
>> > can't program it (you can't, at least not now) or get it for verizon
>> > (you can't, at least not now) or that it uses drm (it does, and that
>> > *does* cause problems - if you don't use the right os, for instance)
>> >
>> > it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer device
>> > - multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name 
>> > it.
>> > at the very least it'll put pressure on other manufacturers to give 
>> > this
>> > kind of functionality :_) and i'm just as disappointed that you can't
>> > code for it because all of those features make me want to code for it.
>> > give it time, and i'm guessing you will be able to - maybe they'll
>> > sandbox the cellular components so that imaginary melt-down scenario
>> > sounds less likely then it already does, for instance.
>> >
>> > oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
>> > Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop. 
>> > did
>> > i mention it's free trade?
>> >
>> > Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:05 -0800, shift8 wrote:
>> > > what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.
>> > >
>> > > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 10:56 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote:
>> > > > Graham Miller wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > neat new stuff
>> > > >
>> > > > i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being 
>> > > > Asia of
>> > > > course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly toxic
>> > > > electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest 
>> > > > river.
>> > > >
>> > > >  > I only buy second generation and later, personally.
>> > > >
>> > > > forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation or 
>> > > > later.
>> > > >
>> > --
>> > Mechanize something idiosyncratic.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>> > website: http://www.microsound.org
>> >
>> >
>>
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>>
> -- 
> Mechanize something idiosyncratic.
>
>
>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 02:56:19 2007
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Well, what does "3rd party widget" mean exactly? Maybe I'd be more
interested if someone could give an example. I'm not a mac user, so I
haven't a clue as to precisely what this implies. If the iPhone
defenders could give an example of some concrete thing it might do
that would be interesting, maybe I'd understand their point of why
this device might be interesting for a musician. So far nobody has
done that.

Again, even I think it would be cool to use it like Lemur, but from
what I understand that wouldn't be possible if you can't write your
own programs for it - you'd need to send OSC (I'd even settle for
MIDI). But maybe I'm misunderstanding what you could do with these 3rd
party widgets?

And conversations SHOULD go all over the place. That's what makes them
interesting. My point was that if I had to choose between the two, I'd
probably rather have a pen and a paper, than an iPhone. I'd get more
done with the former. I often code little programs on the bus while
riding to work every day that way, and plan musical compositions too.

~David

On 1/16/07, xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx <xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> I think this conversation is going too much all over the place. I think
> some people on the list, including myself even thought I personally hate
> cell phones, think the iPhone is interesting because (even thought it
> doesn't have a full OS X), it has a lot of possibilities when it comes to
> 3rd party widgets that can turn the thing into a lot of fun things for a
> musician. That's it doesn't it?
>
> I don't see why there has to be a big discussion about it.
>
> Johan
>
>
> >
> > 4. In my opinion, nothing beats the power of pen/pencil and paper.
> >
> > ~David
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
>
>
>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 02:04:29 2007
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I think this conversation is going too much all over the place. I think
some people on the list, including myself even thought I personally hate
cell phones, think the iPhone is interesting because (even thought it
doesn't have a full OS X), it has a lot of possibilities when it comes to
3rd party widgets that can turn the thing into a lot of fun things for a
musician. That's it doesn't it?

I don't see why there has to be a big discussion about it.

Johan


>
> 4. In my opinion, nothing beats the power of pen/pencil and paper.
>
> ~David
>
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On 1/16/07, shift8 <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> so - what if you had a lemur that fit in your pocket, was motion
> sensitive, responded like a theremin to your proximity to it, and a
> bunch of other crap, and also ran at least one of the apps it was
> controlling locally?  now how about if it was your cell too?  that's the
> relation to the list...  the other part is about whether you can or
> can't program for it.  if there are no interpreters or compilers for the
> device, then you can't.  and that's sad.  and there aren't, and that's
> sad.

1. If it did work like a Lemur, why would I want to use a Lemur as my
cell phone? Seriously, I don't get this craze of wanting your phone to
be more than a phone. Phones get dropped, broken, and stolen (at least
mine do). I prefer to keep my musical instruments at least somewhat
safe. Even the use my laptop gets makes me nervous...

2. If you can't program for it, than it really isn't like a Lemur, is
it? Because theoretically, to use it as such, you'd need to make
custom GUI stuff and having it sending Open Sound Control messages
over the network to the audio/visual app of your choice.

3. At this point, even the Lemur seems overhyped. Is more intuitive
always better? Is a visual, physical interface always better than a
text+typewriter one? I submit that, in most cases, text+QWERTY
keyboard (full size not laptop, please) offers a superior interface,
especially for something involving coding. This might change in the
future, as visual programming does offer intriguing possibilities, but
for now, I think that as humans LANGUAGES (both human and computer)
are perhaps our most powerful human invention, and text+keyboard
interfaces let us access this in a very powerful way. I personally am
looking to do some audio work that will get me away from GUI
interfaces and let me deal with things on a more code based level:
right now I'm very intrigued and considering exploring the following:
chuck/supercollider/fluxus/processing/python. I am actually tired of
using GUI's in many situations where they seem unnecessary; do I
really need to open up a file in SoundForge and see it onscreen, when
all I'm doing is normalizing it? Or take Ableton, which I do perform
live with: most of the time, most of the interface is taking up space,
conveying no information necessary for my performance, and just
getting in my way.

4. In my opinion, nothing beats the power of pen/pencil and paper.
They are far more useful than any handheld device I've ever seen. Even
for computation - you can write very good code, plan an OOP class, or
design the outline for a Pure Data patch with pen and paper. You can
plan out a music composition both visually and using precise numerical
computations. With staff paper, you can also write a symphony. It's
also fun doodling unrelated things in the margins. I have yet to see a
handheld device as flexible and fun as pen and paper. In fact - this
actually has inspired me to consider whether I might be able to write
a "sketchpad" program that does capture some of what I like about pen
and paper brainstorming; I have yet to see such a thing.

Anyway, my overall point is: I love cool technology too, but sometimes
I think people get lost in the race to own the newest overhyped
gadgets, and don't realize that these gadgets aren't really improving
their ability to create as artists, or to exist as human beings.

~David

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> oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
> Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.

wrong continent for pygmies


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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 00:21:01 2007
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Word to that. Anybody who makes music using a 'bourgeois' Mac on
equally bourgeois Max/MSP/Jitter shouldn't be complaining about this.

~Kyle

On 1/16/07, aleks vasic <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx.xxx> wrote:
> Its innovative.  There is no doubt that the user interface is uber
> intuitive.  Tech idiots will gobble this phone up for the sheer
> simplicity of use. Allowing the user a powerful device chock full of
> features that are easily accessible for all.  Mac also has a great
> track record in regards to quality/hardware. Now Compare the price of
> the iPhone to that of a Treo and the difference is negligible.  More
> features and easier to use.  I think a lot of people are excited about
> the phone for good reasons.
>
> I use both platforms as they have their pros and cons, so i am not a
> Machead.
>
> Including my self, this whole list is a bunch of whiners, we need to
> chill out and stop being so fickle.
>
> aLEKs
>
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2007, at 6:39 PM, David Powers wrote:
>
> > I don't understand what's so great about an over-priced phone; if you
> > can't code for it, then it doesn't seem like something of interest to
> > artists. If you could make some kind of musical interface ala Lemur,
> > that would be of great interest, but otherwise, it really seems
> > irrelevant to the list. The over-reaction of people to the iphone
> > bashing by those who seem to have some kind of Mac fetish is
> > hilarious, I must give Mac credit for its marketing at least.
> >
> > ~David
> >
> > On 1/16/07, shift8 <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >> well, that's a given :)
> >>
> >> but really - Jason's response was holier-then-thou crap that was
> >> mostly
> >> false.  Kim's initial post was a bitchfest (but at least mostly
> >> true...)
> >> about a new device that kicks ass for a number of reasons even if you
> >> can't program it (you can't, at least not now) or get it for verizon
> >> (you can't, at least not now) or that it uses drm (it does, and that
> >> *does* cause problems - if you don't use the right os, for instance)
> >>
> >> it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer
> >> device
> >> - multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name
> >> it.
> >> at the very least it'll put pressure on other manufacturers to give
> >> this
> >> kind of functionality :_) and i'm just as disappointed that you can't
> >> code for it because all of those features make me want to code for it.
> >> give it time, and i'm guessing you will be able to - maybe they'll
> >> sandbox the cellular components so that imaginary melt-down scenario
> >> sounds less likely then it already does, for instance.
> >>
> >> oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
> >> Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.
> >> did
> >> i mention it's free trade?
> >>
> >> Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:05 -0800, shift8 wrote:
> >> > what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 10:56 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote:
> >> > > Graham Miller wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > > neat new stuff
> >> > >
> >> > > i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being
> >> Asia of
> >> > > course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly
> >> toxic
> >> > > electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest
> >> river.
> >> > >
> >> > >  > I only buy second generation and later, personally.
> >> > >
> >> > > forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation
> >> or later.
> >> > >
> >> --
> >> Mechanize something idiosyncratic.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
>
>
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>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 17 00:18:30 2007
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Its innovative.  There is no doubt that the user interface is uber 
intuitive.  Tech idiots will gobble this phone up for the sheer 
simplicity of use. Allowing the user a powerful device chock full of 
features that are easily accessible for all.  Mac also has a great 
track record in regards to quality/hardware. Now Compare the price of 
the iPhone to that of a Treo and the difference is negligible.  More 
features and easier to use.  I think a lot of people are excited about 
the phone for good reasons.

I use both platforms as they have their pros and cons, so i am not a 
Machead.

Including my self, this whole list is a bunch of whiners, we need to 
chill out and stop being so fickle.

aLEKs



On Jan 16, 2007, at 6:39 PM, David Powers wrote:

> I don't understand what's so great about an over-priced phone; if you
> can't code for it, then it doesn't seem like something of interest to
> artists. If you could make some kind of musical interface ala Lemur,
> that would be of great interest, but otherwise, it really seems
> irrelevant to the list. The over-reaction of people to the iphone
> bashing by those who seem to have some kind of Mac fetish is
> hilarious, I must give Mac credit for its marketing at least.
>
> ~David
>
> On 1/16/07, shift8 <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> well, that's a given :)
>>
>> but really - Jason's response was holier-then-thou crap that was 
>> mostly
>> false.  Kim's initial post was a bitchfest (but at least mostly 
>> true...)
>> about a new device that kicks ass for a number of reasons even if you
>> can't program it (you can't, at least not now) or get it for verizon
>> (you can't, at least not now) or that it uses drm (it does, and that
>> *does* cause problems - if you don't use the right os, for instance)
>>
>> it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer 
>> device
>> - multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name 
>> it.
>> at the very least it'll put pressure on other manufacturers to give 
>> this
>> kind of functionality :_) and i'm just as disappointed that you can't
>> code for it because all of those features make me want to code for it.
>> give it time, and i'm guessing you will be able to - maybe they'll
>> sandbox the cellular components so that imaginary melt-down scenario
>> sounds less likely then it already does, for instance.
>>
>> oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
>> Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.  
>> did
>> i mention it's free trade?
>>
>> Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:05 -0800, shift8 wrote:
>> > what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.
>> >
>> > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 10:56 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote:
>> > > Graham Miller wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > neat new stuff
>> > >
>> > > i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being 
>> Asia of
>> > > course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly 
>> toxic
>> > > electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest 
>> river.
>> > >
>> > >  > I only buy second generation and later, personally.
>> > >
>> > > forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation 
>> or later.
>> > >
>> --
>> Mechanize something idiosyncratic.
>>
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>


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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 23:47:33 2007
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so - what if you had a lemur that fit in your pocket, was motion
sensitive, responded like a theremin to your proximity to it, and a
bunch of other crap, and also ran at least one of the apps it was
controlling locally?  now how about if it was your cell too?  that's the
relation to the list...  the other part is about whether you can or
can't program for it.  if there are no interpreters or compilers for the
device, then you can't.  and that's sad.  and there aren't, and that's
sad.

On Tue, 2007-01-16 at 17:39 -0600, David Powers wrote:
> I don't understand what's so great about an over-priced phone; if you
> can't code for it, then it doesn't seem like something of interest to
> artists. If you could make some kind of musical interface ala Lemur,
> that would be of great interest, but otherwise, it really seems
> irrelevant to the list. The over-reaction of people to the iphone
> bashing by those who seem to have some kind of Mac fetish is
> hilarious, I must give Mac credit for its marketing at least.
> 
> ~David
> 
> On 1/16/07, shift8 <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> > well, that's a given :)
> >
> > but really - Jason's response was holier-then-thou crap that was mostly
> > false.  Kim's initial post was a bitchfest (but at least mostly true...)
> > about a new device that kicks ass for a number of reasons even if you
> > can't program it (you can't, at least not now) or get it for verizon
> > (you can't, at least not now) or that it uses drm (it does, and that
> > *does* cause problems - if you don't use the right os, for instance)
> >
> > it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer device
> > - multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name it.
> > at the very least it'll put pressure on other manufacturers to give this
> > kind of functionality :_) and i'm just as disappointed that you can't
> > code for it because all of those features make me want to code for it.
> > give it time, and i'm guessing you will be able to - maybe they'll
> > sandbox the cellular components so that imaginary melt-down scenario
> > sounds less likely then it already does, for instance.
> >
> > oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
> > Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.  did
> > i mention it's free trade?
> >
> > Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:05 -0800, shift8 wrote:
> > > what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 10:56 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote:
> > > > Graham Miller wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > neat new stuff
> > > >
> > > > i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being Asia of
> > > > course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly toxic
> > > > electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest river.
> > > >
> > > >  > I only buy second generation and later, personally.
> > > >
> > > > forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation or later.
> > > >
> > --
> > Mechanize something idiosyncratic.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
> 
-- 
Mechanize something idiosyncratic.



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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 23:39:57 2007
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From: David Powers <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
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I don't understand what's so great about an over-priced phone; if you
can't code for it, then it doesn't seem like something of interest to
artists. If you could make some kind of musical interface ala Lemur,
that would be of great interest, but otherwise, it really seems
irrelevant to the list. The over-reaction of people to the iphone
bashing by those who seem to have some kind of Mac fetish is
hilarious, I must give Mac credit for its marketing at least.

~David

On 1/16/07, shift8 <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> well, that's a given :)
>
> but really - Jason's response was holier-then-thou crap that was mostly
> false.  Kim's initial post was a bitchfest (but at least mostly true...)
> about a new device that kicks ass for a number of reasons even if you
> can't program it (you can't, at least not now) or get it for verizon
> (you can't, at least not now) or that it uses drm (it does, and that
> *does* cause problems - if you don't use the right os, for instance)
>
> it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer device
> - multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name it.
> at the very least it'll put pressure on other manufacturers to give this
> kind of functionality :_) and i'm just as disappointed that you can't
> code for it because all of those features make me want to code for it.
> give it time, and i'm guessing you will be able to - maybe they'll
> sandbox the cellular components so that imaginary melt-down scenario
> sounds less likely then it already does, for instance.
>
> oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
> Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.  did
> i mention it's free trade?
>
> Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:05 -0800, shift8 wrote:
> > what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.
> >
> > On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 10:56 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote:
> > > Graham Miller wrote:
> > >
> > > > neat new stuff
> > >
> > > i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being Asia of
> > > course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly toxic
> > > electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest river.
> > >
> > >  > I only buy second generation and later, personally.
> > >
> > > forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation or later.
> > >
> --
> Mechanize something idiosyncratic.
>
>
>
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> well, that's a given :)
>
> but really - Jason's response was holier-then-thou crap that was mostly
> false.

Totaly untrue. Any snark was a direct response to Kims usual uber-marxist 
position and the misinformation he is spreading.  See below.

> Kim's initial post was a bitchfest (but at least mostly true...)
> about a new device that kicks ass for a number of reasons even if you
> can't program it (you can't, at least not now)

I reiterate: bullshit.  Anyone that can program OSX widgets can write for 
the iPhone.  Look it up.  Its just not officially sanctioned, but big deal.


> or get it for verizon
> (you can't, at least not now)

I reiterate: unbound phones will be sold.

> or that it uses drm (it does, and that
> *does* cause problems - if you don't use the right os, for instance)

Yes, well, that's DRM.  Doesnt effect me, I run PCs and macs. YMMV.

> it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer device
> - multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name it.
> at the very least it'll put pressure on other manufacturers to give this
> kind of functionality :_) and i'm just as disappointed that you can't
> code for it because all of those features make me want to code for it.
> give it time, and i'm guessing you will be able to - maybe they'll
> sandbox the cellular components so that imaginary melt-down scenario
> sounds less likely then it already does, for instance.

See above.  Widgets.  I hear theyre easy to code.  If only I could code. 
*shrug*
I have no doubt that  a community of enterprising individuals will hack 
together some lovely audio apps for us all to play with on this thing in the 
near future.


> oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
> Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.  did
> i mention it's free trade?

kek.. if only, eh?

> Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:05 -0800, shift8 wrote:
>> what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.

Agreed!
Now lets move on to bigger and better things..

~!J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com 



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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 23:28:14 2007
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From: Damian Stewart <xxxxxx@xxxx.xx.xx>
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shift8 wrote:

> it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer device
> - multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name it.

this is true. i work with superultrahightech stuff (i'm an interactive 
museum installation developer, using cameras and computer vision 
tracking to drive procedurally-generated graphics projections), and each 
year i'm becoming increasingly cynical.

my immediate response is, so what? why do i want a device with 
multi-touch, gestures, environmental sensors, other than because Steve 
Jobs tells me I do?

> oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
> Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.  did
> i mention it's free trade?

bravo sir! :-)

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 22:51:21 2007
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well, that's a given :)

but really - Jason's response was holier-then-thou crap that was mostly
false.  Kim's initial post was a bitchfest (but at least mostly true...)
about a new device that kicks ass for a number of reasons even if you
can't program it (you can't, at least not now) or get it for verizon
(you can't, at least not now) or that it uses drm (it does, and that
*does* cause problems - if you don't use the right os, for instance)

it still pushes the boundaries way out for this kind of consumer device
- multi-touch interaction, gestures, environmental sensors, you name it.
at the very least it'll put pressure on other manufacturers to give this
kind of functionality :_) and i'm just as disappointed that you can't
code for it because all of those features make me want to code for it.
give it time, and i'm guessing you will be able to - maybe they'll
sandbox the cellular components so that imaginary melt-down scenario
sounds less likely then it already does, for instance.

oh, and i wrote this on an all organically grown, assembled by an
Australian Pygmy co-op, cooled by the pyramid crystal power laptop.  did
i mention it's free trade?

Tue, 2007-01-16 at 14:05 -0800, shift8 wrote:
> what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.
> 
> On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 10:56 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote:
> > Graham Miller wrote:
> > 
> > > neat new stuff
> > 
> > i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being Asia of 
> > course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly toxic 
> > electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest river.
> > 
> >  > I only buy second generation and later, personally.
> > 
> > forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation or later.
> > 
-- 
Mechanize something idiosyncratic.



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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 22:13:11 2007
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shift8 wrote:
> what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.

*you're* a bunch of drivel :-p (joking)

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 22:05:34 2007
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what a bunch of drivel this whole thread is.

On Wed, 2007-01-17 at 10:56 +1300, Damian Stewart wrote:
> Graham Miller wrote:
> 
> > neat new stuff
> 
> i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being Asia of 
> course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly toxic 
> electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest river.
> 
>  > I only buy second generation and later, personally.
> 
> forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation or later.
> 
-- 
Mechanize something idiosyncratic.



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Graham Miller wrote:

> neat new stuff

i bet it's still made by invisible Asian people. and this being Asia of 
course, they'll dump their manufacturing wastes (their highly toxic 
electronics-manufacturing wastes, mind) straight into the nearest river.

 > I only buy second generation and later, personally.

forgive me but I try to only buy second-*hand* second-generation or later.

-- 
Damian Stewart
+64 27 305 4107

f r e y
live music with machines
http://www.frey.co.nz
http://www.myspace.com/freyed

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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 14:15:39 2007
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hilarious:) and totally true.

On 15-Jan-07, at 10:46 PM, Jason Hollis wrote:

>
> This crap again?
>
>
>> - will not use the same OS X that you use on your laptop - so your
>> apps won't run in it
>
> Duh.. But the core tech is the same, and its still a tiny  
> multitouch gui unix box in your bourgeois pocket.
> And I guarantee you that there are people working on hacking in all  
> sorts of fun new things even as we speak.
> Audio apps are an easy guess.  Can't wait to see what develops there.
>
>
>> - only Apple will be making apps for the iPhone -- i.e. no 3rd party
>> apps planned as of yet
>
>
> Pure crap: Any asshole that can program an OSX widget can write  
> programs for the iPhone.
> You put too much faith in Apples desire and ability to reign  
> absolute over the machines they sell.
> Or perhaps just paranoia. After all, Apple is an  
> eeeeeeeeeeeeeeville corporation, right?
> Anyway, this ties nicely into the item above.
>
>> - doesn't have external storage capability
>
> Uh, hello, NETWORK anyone?   Wifi.  Bluetooth.  Edge. What more is  
> needed? Transfer as you see fit.
>
>
>> - uses DRM as does the iPod
>
> Waah girlfriend. As distasteful as DRM itself is, I have yet to  
> experience a problem with my iPod due to DRM.
>
>
>> - doesn't have GPS
>
> That would have been nice. And yet, there is always Mapquest.  
> Somehow I think users will get by.  And there's always the next  
> version.
>
>
>> - locked to Cingular service in the US
>
> Unbound phones will be sold as well.
> They're just pushing Cingular, who were, recently, bought out by  
> AT&T, so theres hope there.
> And maybe something they know that we dont?
>
>
>> - costs way too much
>
> Don't they all.
>
>> - the usual Apple overhyped piece of bourgeois tech
>
> More whining.  All new tech is an 'executoy', or more accurately,  
> targeted to early adopters.
> Early adopters pay to have the first gen of the neat new stuff,  
> then economy of scale lets the mature tech reach more people for  
> less money in each successive generation.  Economics 101.  OMG READ  
> SOME *insert pet philosopher here*   I only buy second generation  
> and later, personally.
>
> Read:
> http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone/
>
>
> Yawn,
>
> ~!J!
> http://www.endif.org
> http://www.crunchpod.com
>
>
>
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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 10:08:08 2007
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Haven't found any downloads online yet, either - it's prolly wasn't a 
big seller beyond a few serious dance afficionados in Oz (my copy was 
a blind chance pick from the $2.00 cut-out bin at a record store 
about 15 years ago).

I did a little searching and found a few sites with more info:

Music Australia, a service of the Australian National Library, has 
details on the CD (good resource, BTW)
http://www.musicaustralia.org/apps/MA?function=showDetail¤tBibRecord=000011821115&itemSeq=3&total=4&returnFunction=searchResults&scope=scope&formatType=scores%7Csound&simpleTerm=Sydney+Dance+Company+Boxes

Iva Davies on wickipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iva_Davies
Iva Davies on ArtistDirect:  
http://www.artistdirect.com/nad/music/artist/card/0,,420809,00.html
Iva Davies website:  http://www.icehouse-iva.com/

If you can't find any audio online, I'll put up a couple of tracks on 
my website. Definitely worth listening to.

R.


>is it available as a digital download anywhere?
>
>On 15-Jan-07, at 7:15 PM, Robert Arnold wrote:
>
>>For the past couple of days I've been going through some cartons of 
>>CDs that I've had in storage since I moved to Amsterdam three years 
>>ago. I was just listening to one that has always been a favorite 
>>and certainly qualifies as futuristic music - it's the score of the 
>>Sydney Dance Company's 1985 production of "Boxes" by Iva Davies 
>>(Chrysalis VK41659/DIDX3158). It's long out of print, but I was 
>>wondering if anyone on the list is familiar with it. Very 
>>interesting sounds, particularly for something that was done 20 
>>years ago. The few vocals are nothing special - sort of Brian 
>>Ferry-ish, but there are some really fine sounds in the 
>>instrumental/electronic bits.
>>
>>R.
>
>
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-- 

--
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(Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
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          - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 03:47:26 2007
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This crap again?


>- will not use the same OS X that you use on your laptop - so your
> apps won't run in it

Duh.. But the core tech is the same, and its still a tiny multitouch gui 
unix box in your bourgeois pocket.
And I guarantee you that there are people working on hacking in all sorts of 
fun new things even as we speak.
Audio apps are an easy guess.  Can't wait to see what develops there.


> - only Apple will be making apps for the iPhone -- i.e. no 3rd party
> apps planned as of yet


Pure crap: Any asshole that can program an OSX widget can write programs for 
the iPhone.
You put too much faith in Apples desire and ability to reign absolute over 
the machines they sell.
Or perhaps just paranoia. After all, Apple is an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeville 
corporation, right?
Anyway, this ties nicely into the item above.

> - doesn't have external storage capability

Uh, hello, NETWORK anyone?   Wifi.  Bluetooth.  Edge. What more is needed? 
Transfer as you see fit.


> - uses DRM as does the iPod

Waah girlfriend. As distasteful as DRM itself is, I have yet to experience a 
problem with my iPod due to DRM.


> - doesn't have GPS

That would have been nice. And yet, there is always Mapquest. Somehow I 
think users will get by.  And there's always the next version.


> - locked to Cingular service in the US

Unbound phones will be sold as well.
They're just pushing Cingular, who were, recently, bought out by AT&T, so 
theres hope there.
And maybe something they know that we dont?


> - costs way too much

Don't they all.

> - the usual Apple overhyped piece of bourgeois tech

More whining.  All new tech is an 'executoy', or more accurately, targeted 
to early adopters.
Early adopters pay to have the first gen of the neat new stuff, then economy 
of scale lets the mature tech reach more people for less money in each 
successive generation.  Economics 101.  OMG READ SOME *insert pet 
philosopher here*   I only buy second generation and later, personally.

Read:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-apple-iphone/


Yawn,

~!J!
http://www.endif.org
http://www.crunchpod.com



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From ???@??? Tue Jan 16 01:51:59 2007
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is it available as a digital download anywhere?

On 15-Jan-07, at 7:15 PM, Robert Arnold wrote:

> For the past couple of days I've been going through some cartons of  
> CDs that I've had in storage since I moved to Amsterdam three years  
> ago. I was just listening to one that has always been a favorite  
> and certainly qualifies as futuristic music - it's the score of the  
> Sydney Dance Company's 1985 production of "Boxes" by Iva Davies  
> (Chrysalis VK41659/DIDX3158). It's long out of print, but I was  
> wondering if anyone on the list is familiar with it. Very  
> interesting sounds, particularly for something that was done 20  
> years ago. The few vocals are nothing special - sort of Brian Ferry- 
> ish, but there are some really fine sounds in the instrumental/ 
> electronic bits.
>
> R.


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From: Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
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For the past couple of days I've been going through some cartons of 
CDs that I've had in storage since I moved to Amsterdam three years 
ago. I was just listening to one that has always been a favorite and 
certainly qualifies as futuristic music - it's the score of the 
Sydney Dance Company's 1985 production of "Boxes" by Iva Davies 
(Chrysalis VK41659/DIDX3158). It's long out of print, but I was 
wondering if anyone on the list is familiar with it. Very interesting 
sounds, particularly for something that was done 20 years ago. The 
few vocals are nothing special - sort of Brian Ferry-ish, but there 
are some really fine sounds in the instrumental/electronic bits.

R.
-- 

--
Website: http://www.warbaby.com
(Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
--

"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would 
permit us to be pirates."

          - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi


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From ???@??? Mon Jan 15 18:36:21 2007
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It's obviously a running a mini OS X, but it should still be able to  
run Apple and 3rd party widget programs.

Johan


On Jan 15, 2007, at 9:45 AM, Kim Cascone wrote:

> - will not use the same OS X that you use on your laptop - so your  
> apps won't run in it
> - only Apple will be making apps for the iPhone -- i.e. no 3rd  
> party apps planned as of yet
> - doesn't have external storage capability
> - uses DRM as does the iPod
> - doesn't have GPS
> - locked to Cingular service in the US
> - costs way too much
> - the usual Apple overhyped piece of bourgeois tech
>
> read:
>
> http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/14/iphone_the_roach_mot.html
>
> check out:
> http://openmoko.com/press/index.html


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- will not use the same OS X that you use on your laptop - so your  
apps won't run in it
- only Apple will be making apps for the iPhone -- i.e. no 3rd party  
apps planned as of yet
- doesn't have external storage capability
- uses DRM as does the iPod
- doesn't have GPS
- locked to Cingular service in the US
- costs way too much
- the usual Apple overhyped piece of bourgeois tech

read:

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/14/iphone_the_roach_mot.html

check out:
http://openmoko.com/press/index.html
--Boundary_(ID_ov7RUhwVXJF0LjWbPC8Rrw)--

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From: Pablo Sanz Almoguera <xxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] study programmes on soundart & music technology in europe
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HELLO list,

I´m currently pursuing to start a study programme on sonic arts / music 
technology, in Europe/UK.  my interests on sound are both technical and 
conceptual with a focus on sound art, more than in the music industry, 
you know. Also i´m interested in the relationships of sound with other 
mediums like electronic image, installations, etc.

I live in Madrid (Spain) and i´ve been mainly self-taught up to this 
moment in these matters, altough i´ve a 2 years superior grade as sound 
technician here in spain and i´ve taken workshops and diverse courses on 
sound and video too during the last three years. also i have some 
regular activity as vj at this moment too.  Since i don´t have 
university level formation, i think i cannot get oficial access to the 
most of post-graduate programs (very common in some universities on 
sonic or media arts)... for that reason i think a bachelor program could 
be the correct choice in my case.

I´ve a bit of information (via web) of some interesting programmes at 
the University of Edimburgh and the Sonic Arts Centre in Belfast, but 
the cost of living in the UK plus the fees of this programs seems to be 
not affordable for me, at least with the information i have read.

The Institute of Sonology in The Hague (Netherlands) seems to be more 
affordable (1500eu / year, with a cost of living of 500-700eu per 
month... and some "possible" government helping if you stay there for 
some years) and i´m seriously considering going the next year to make 
the one year Sonology Course. Also, the contents of their programs (very 
detailed on their web) are one of the most interesting i´ve seen for now.

Since i´m looking for a more complete and long formation, i would like 
to enrol after that course in the 4 years bachelor degree there.... but 
i´m not sure about this possible decision since the bachelor  it´s in 
dutch language (i´m still trying to improve my english, so thinking in 
taking classes about DSP in dutch it´s "a bit" hard for me at this 
moment as you can imagine)   ... also, i´ve some info about high 
requirements there for the bachelor students (i think each year only 4-8 
students finish it)...

Well... i would like to get all kind of info, practical or about the 
studies themselves, about any of these choices (maybe any of you are 
involed in any of them). Also i would like to know about other 
programmes that you could consider interesting for me....

you can respond offline if you prefer to pablo[at]20020[dot]org

THANKS a lot in advance

,)

-- 

[o_Ó]<<<   : : : Pablo Sanz Almoguera 
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.20020.org/
http://www.mediateletipos.net/    
+++[cluster http://www.artesonoro.org]



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From ???@??? Mon Jan 15 14:34:32 2007
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Subject: [microsound] Stolen Music
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The music business is a shity business.

http://nl_hq.micromusic.net/stolengoods/

BRD


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From ???@??? Mon Jan 15 00:49:04 2007
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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 19:48:34 -0500
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i completed the mcgill undergrad music technology (honours) program.   
my instrument was classical piano, on which my proficiency was good  
enough to get me into the music department.  i was the only person to  
graduate from my class (started out with about 20 or so people in my  
year).  most people tend to downgrade to the minor in music tech, or  
switch over to sound recording.  but that was a few years ago, so  
perhaps things have changed...

the program is divided into two sections -- first you get all of the  
formal history, theory, ear training, ensemble performance and  
instrument lessons.  and then there's the music tech side, where you  
do computer science, acoustics, sound recording, digital media, and  
audio programming (max/msp, pd, supercollider, csound, etc.).

the master's program, on the other hand, is geared more towards  
computer science and electrical engineering students.  there is no  
musical instrument requirement for this degree, and you can choose to  
focus on one of the areas of music information retrieval, human- 
computer + gestural interfaces, and digital signal processing.

i would definitely recommend both programs, and montreal is by far my  
favorite canadian city.  you could also look into the concordia  
programs.  i think they have a solid electroacoustic program, as well  
as a lot of digital media courses.

best,
owen.

http://www.media.mit.edu/~meyers/

On Jan 12, 2007, at 11:23 AM, t p wrote:

> Good afternoon all,
>
> Per a previous topic to the list, I recently looked into attending  
> the undergrad music technology program at McGill University in  
> Montreal.  To my utter dismay, I was told that there was a  
> mandatory audition requirement via "a standard musical instrument"  
> tryout to be accepted into the program.
>
> Like some of you, I don't play an instrument as my work and study  
> revolves around digital manipulation, sequencing, and consequent  
> electronic production.  Needless to say, I find this requirement  
> shocking being that the university, as a whole, is a such a hub for  
> innovation and interpretation.
>
> Could anyone who has gone through this program speak on the topic a  
> bit?   I would easily understand if my aim was to study classical  
> composition, but being that it's a music tech program, I see this  
> as being a bit obtuse.
>
> For that matter, are there any similar programs within Canada that  
> may offer similar programs?  Unfortunately, I have yet to find any  
> as reputable.
>
> I'm an aging electronic contortionist looking to find a home. :-)    
> So I humbly appreciate all your feedback, and please feel free to  
> email me off the list as well.
>
> Cheers and best wishes on your goals for the rest of the day.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
>  with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.


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I've noticed with sound recordings that it's a different experience 
listening to a solo performer; no overdubs , than listening to 
multitracked or edited audio. People are able to tell when it's 
actually a person playing.

  A colleague of mine , deciding to record a disc of piano pieces using 
a sophisticated sampler said: 'Why not just sequence?' The result of 
the sounds from the hardware sequencer wasn't enough to sustain 
interest throughout the entire album. He played the pieces with his 
hands and feet to good effect.

  There is so much attention to 'sound' and perhaps not quite enough to 
what is actually being communicated.


On Jan 14, 2007, at 11:35 AM, Kim Cascone wrote:

> New Study Shows Brain Rapidly Forms Link Between Sounds And Actions 
> That Produce Them
>
>
> http://tinyurl.com/ykdvmt


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New Study Shows Brain Rapidly Forms Link Between Sounds And Actions  
That Produce Them


http://tinyurl.com/ykdvmt
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From ???@??? Sun Jan 14 19:26:31 2007
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Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2007 20:26:17 +0100
From: Dario Lucchi <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] faune
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 FILETIME=[DFB44000:01C73811]

i want to share with you my love for the music of "faune"

he's a french musician, his name is claude
i don't know anything else about him

the netlabel http://pathmusick.hermetech.net releases his works
they go from pure ambient to something more experimental or even "academic"
contemporary music
he reminds me of william bazinski or akira rabelais, maybe cause are my fav
ones

download, listen and enjoy

.......

i dedicated some video works to his music too
http://www.archive.org/download/wh074/wh074_film_the_tide_0.mpg
http://www.archive.org/download/wh074/wh074_film_the_tide_6.mpg
http://www.archive.org/download/wh075/wh075_v01_apresmidi.wmv


ciao, marco


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From ???@??? Sat Jan 13 21:46:57 2007
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 14:49:12 -0700
From: devslashnull <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] mcgill univ.'s "audition" requirement
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Simon Fraser University- School of Interactive Arts and Technology.

http://www.siat.sfu.ca/


Seems like most programs that have the word "music" in them... even  
if they purport to be about technology, have grown out of traditional  
music departments, hence the requirement for the audition. Look for  
Digital Media Studies programs or even Arts orientted programs, which  
have sprouted digtal audio components.


Just a thought.

dev


On Jan 12, 2007, at 9:23 AM, t p wrote:

> Good afternoon all,
>
> Per a previous topic to the list, I recently looked into attending  
> the undergrad music technology program at McGill University in  
> Montreal.  To my utter dismay, I was told that there was a  
> mandatory audition requirement via "a standard musical instrument"  
> tryout to be accepted into the program.
>
> Like some of you, I don't play an instrument as my work and study  
> revolves around digital manipulation, sequencing, and consequent  
> electronic production.  Needless to say, I find this requirement  
> shocking being that the university, as a whole, is a such a hub for  
> innovation and interpretation.
>
> Could anyone who has gone through this program speak on the topic a  
> bit?   I would easily understand if my aim was to study classical  
> composition, but being that it's a music tech program, I see this  
> as being a bit obtuse.
>
> For that matter, are there any similar programs within Canada that  
> may offer similar programs?  Unfortunately, I have yet to find any  
> as reputable.
>
> I'm an aging electronic contortionist looking to find a home. :-)    
> So I humbly appreciate all your feedback, and please feel free to  
> email me off the list as well.
>
> Cheers and best wishes on your goals for the rest of the day.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast
>  with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.


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From ???@??? Sat Jan 13 21:24:41 2007
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 16:24:33 -0500
From: Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] OT: iphone
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http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=8797

On 9-Jan-07, at 3:17 PM, Graham Miller wrote:

> http://www.apple.com/iphone/
>
> this is so cool. i hope it is drool proof. i want one.
>
> wondering if there will be any audio/music apps for this? seems  
> like you could turn it into a perfect little field recorder.
>
> g.
>
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From ???@??? Sat Jan 13 14:37:52 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
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 FILETIME=[621A7250:01C73720]

http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Other-Galactic-Funk/dp/B00000J2TO

Certainly, this is what the future of music promises us all...




>From: djFutureSol <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>Reply-To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
>Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 00:22:07 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>In response to what track the "Zen Music" comes from:
>
>The beat comes from the first portion of Aphex Twin's "omgyjya switch7" on
>the "drukqs" album.  Sounds like they threw in some dude yelling like he 
>was
>being stabbed over top the beat and added a stuttered guitar part (Caine's
>air guitar is more than classic). The screaming is what really throws you -
>Aphex Twin is great zen music already, but even I was thrown by the absurd
>yelling. Without it I would have said "nice try Aphex Twin is not really
>future music" but the death yells are something completly foriegn and thus
>make the track futuristic.
>
>You can view the scene here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CN56f9jWKI
>
>Great movie and amazing sound design (although I felt the dialog was
>sometimes out of sync - like they recorded it later on the sound stage but
>didn't get it perfect sync'd to the motion) but still an amazing use of
>sound fx to create tension throughout the film.
>
>
>birrein wrote:
> >
> > On 12/31/06, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> >> really? which track? i have that album...
> >>
> >> On 31-Dec-06, at 8:55 AM, Steven McLeod wrote:
> >>
> >> > When Cain plays the "zen" music with Owen after their strawbery
> >> > spliff it is in part an Aphex Twin track fron Druqs and either
> >> > remixed or mixed with something else
> >> >
> >
> > http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20070103174545bjs9.jpg
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://www.nabble.com/children-of-men-futuristic-music-tf2900862.html#a8312271
>Sent from the Microsound mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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From ???@??? Sat Jan 13 11:54:24 2007
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http://www.spaceweather.com/glossary/inspire.html
if there's anyone who doesn't know this one here... though stephen p.
mcgreevy's vlf recordings sound much clearer and louder than this
stream.


2007/1/13, Andras Hargitai <xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>:
> actually, i was shocked by the price itself. i mean it is not the
> recording of a musician, it is "free", the recording of nature indeed
> "somehow"... so the amount of money made me worried as well.
> the 30 minute long individual discs maybe sign the individual planets?
> there are no exact notes which properly state which planet is which
> recording...
> but no worries since my mate downloaded the 5 cds material to me in flac. :)
>
> András
>
> 2007/1/13, Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>:
> > BTW, I heard back from those "BodyMind folks about their 10 discs of
> > NASA Space Probe Recordings and they said that *their* CDs are only
> > 30 minutes each too.
> > The $16 price and even the $10/ea price for the whole set is a bit of
> > a rip-off.
> > They could've put two on a disc and got it down to a nice 5 disc set
> > at a reasonable price,
> > but c'est la vie...
> >
> > Thought I'd pass this on to anyone thinking of getting them.
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > Now playing: Kim Cascone - Three Parasites For Deleuze
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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> >
> >
>

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From ???@??? Sat Jan 13 08:42:42 2007
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From: Steven McLeod <xxxxxx.xxxxxx@xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
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Nice one! that satisfies the trainspotter in me!! cheers :)  ----- Original 
Message ----- 
From: "djFutureSol" <xxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
To: <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music


>
> In response to what track the "Zen Music" comes from:
>
> The beat comes from the first portion of Aphex Twin's "omgyjya switch7" on
> the "drukqs" album.  Sounds like they threw in some dude yelling like he 
> was
> being stabbed over top the beat and added a stuttered guitar part (Caine's
> air guitar is more than classic). The screaming is what really throws 
> you -
> Aphex Twin is great zen music already, but even I was thrown by the absurd
> yelling. Without it I would have said "nice try Aphex Twin is not really
> future music" but the death yells are something completly foriegn and thus
> make the track futuristic.
>
> You can view the scene here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CN56f9jWKI
>
> Great movie and amazing sound design (although I felt the dialog was
> sometimes out of sync - like they recorded it later on the sound stage but
> didn't get it perfect sync'd to the motion) but still an amazing use of
> sound fx to create tension throughout the film.
>
>
> birrein wrote:
>>
>> On 12/31/06, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
>>> really? which track? i have that album...
>>>
>>> On 31-Dec-06, at 8:55 AM, Steven McLeod wrote:
>>>
>>> > When Cain plays the "zen" music with Owen after their strawbery
>>> > spliff it is in part an Aphex Twin track fron Druqs and either
>>> > remixed or mixed with something else
>>> >
>>
>> http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20070103174545bjs9.jpg
>>
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>>
>>
>
> -- 
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From ???@??? Sat Jan 13 08:22:15 2007
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In response to what track the "Zen Music" comes from:

The beat comes from the first portion of Aphex Twin's "omgyjya switch7" on
the "drukqs" album.  Sounds like they threw in some dude yelling like he was
being stabbed over top the beat and added a stuttered guitar part (Caine's
air guitar is more than classic). The screaming is what really throws you -
Aphex Twin is great zen music already, but even I was thrown by the absurd
yelling. Without it I would have said "nice try Aphex Twin is not really
future music" but the death yells are something completly foriegn and thus
make the track futuristic.  

You can view the scene here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CN56f9jWKI 

Great movie and amazing sound design (although I felt the dialog was
sometimes out of sync - like they recorded it later on the sound stage but
didn't get it perfect sync'd to the motion) but still an amazing use of
sound fx to create tension throughout the film.  


birrein wrote:
> 
> On 12/31/06, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
>> really? which track? i have that album...
>>
>> On 31-Dec-06, at 8:55 AM, Steven McLeod wrote:
>>
>> > When Cain plays the "zen" music with Owen after their strawbery
>> > spliff it is in part an Aphex Twin track fron Druqs and either
>> > remixed or mixed with something else
>> >
> 
> http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20070103174545bjs9.jpg
> 
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> 
> 
> 

-- 
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From ???@??? Sat Jan 13 00:37:34 2007
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Date: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 01:37:22 +0100
From: Andras Hargitai <xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
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actually, i was shocked by the price itself. i mean it is not the
recording of a musician, it is "free", the recording of nature indeed
"somehow"... so the amount of money made me worried as well.
the 30 minute long individual discs maybe sign the individual planets?
there are no exact notes which properly state which planet is which
recording...
but no worries since my mate downloaded the 5 cds material to me in flac. :)

András

2007/1/13, Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>:
> BTW, I heard back from those "BodyMind folks about their 10 discs of
> NASA Space Probe Recordings and they said that *their* CDs are only
> 30 minutes each too.
> The $16 price and even the $10/ea price for the whole set is a bit of
> a rip-off.
> They could've put two on a disc and got it down to a nice 5 disc set
> at a reasonable price,
> but c'est la vie...
>
> Thought I'd pass this on to anyone thinking of getting them.
>
>
> Rod
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Now playing: Kim Cascone - Three Parasites For Deleuze
>
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From ???@??? Fri Jan 12 23:51:40 2007
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From: Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
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BTW, I heard back from those "BodyMind folks about their 10 discs of
NASA Space Probe Recordings and they said that *their* CDs are only  
30 minutes each too.
The $16 price and even the $10/ea price for the whole set is a bit of  
a rip-off.
They could've put two on a disc and got it down to a nice 5 disc set  
at a reasonable price,
but c'est la vie...

Thought I'd pass this on to anyone thinking of getting them.


Rod






---
Now playing: Kim Cascone - Three Parasites For Deleuze

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 I went to a lecture last year that dealt with the resonances of stars etc. Very interesting, you can find notes at http://astro.phys.au.dk/~jcd/HELAS/material.html The music that went with the lecture was a bit uninspired, but the raw waveforms were quite spectacular. I think the lecture notes have some treated waveforms in too, which sound a bit Bebe Barron to be "real" ;)
    
 -----Original Message-----
 From: xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx
 To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
 Sent: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 6.23PM
 Subject: [microsound] The Lion Roars
 
  The Lion Roars: Sounds of the Magnetosphere 
 http://science.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/sppb/edu/lionroar/ 
 
 -- 
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Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:05:55 -0800
From: Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] GWEN : Synthetic Telepathy? ( rare recording )
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>
>http://www.heliotown.com/GWEN.html
>
>Please do not listen to this recording if you are high or in an 
>altered state of consciousness. Thank you.
>
>TA


Dang! Guess I'm never gonna be able to listen to it...

R.
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From ???@??? Fri Jan 12 17:46:52 2007
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Are you kidding?  I am definitely going to listen to that while high.

On 1/12/07, Thomas Ashcraft <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> In the observance of the passing of the legendary conspiracy theorist
> Robert Anton Wilson I posted a webpage with a sound recording I made in
> the mid-1990s of a military communications system called GWEN, the
> Ground Wave Emergency Network.   Some people think it serves as a medium
> of governmental mind control or a phenomenon known as "synthetic
> telepathy".    I am personally not implying this, rather I am just an
> observer and recordist.
>
> http://www.heliotown.com/GWEN.html
>
> Please do not listen to this recording if you are high or in an altered
> state of consciousness. Thank you.
>
> TA
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ???@??? Fri Jan 12 17:38:02 2007
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It must be sensitive information: your page is blocked by my workplace
web filter. Commence shredding documents and deleting files. They're
after me!

~Kyle

On 1/12/07, Thomas Ashcraft <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> In the observance of the passing of the legendary conspiracy theorist
> Robert Anton Wilson I posted a webpage with a sound recording I made in
> the mid-1990s of a military communications system called GWEN, the
> Ground Wave Emergency Network.   Some people think it serves as a medium
> of governmental mind control or a phenomenon known as "synthetic
> telepathy".    I am personally not implying this, rather I am just an
> observer and recordist.
>
> http://www.heliotown.com/GWEN.html
>
> Please do not listen to this recording if you are high or in an altered
> state of consciousness. Thank you.
>
> TA
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
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>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________
_____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______
((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO

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--Boundary_(ID_h9dVbJhTTzQ8q1/PBln0hg)
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Good afternoon all,

Per a previous topic to the list, I recently looked into attending the undergrad music technology program at McGill University in Montreal.  To my utter dismay, I was told that there was a mandatory audition requirement via "a standard musical instrument" tryout to be accepted into the program.

Like some of you, I don't play an instrument as my work and study revolves around digital manipulation, sequencing, and consequent electronic production.  Needless to say, I find this requirement shocking being that the university, as a whole, is a such a hub for innovation and interpretation.

Could anyone who has gone through this program speak on the topic a bit?   I would easily understand if my aim was to study classical composition, but being that it's a music tech program, I see this as being a bit obtuse.

For that matter, are there any similar programs within Canada that may offer similar programs?  Unfortunately, I have yet to find any as reputable.

I'm an aging electronic contortionist looking to find a home. :-)   So I humbly appreciate all your feedback, and please feel free to email me off the list as well.

Cheers and best wishes on your goals for the rest of the day.
 

 
---------------------------------
Don't get soaked.  Take a quick peak at the forecast 
 with theYahoo! Search weather shortcut.
--Boundary_(ID_h9dVbJhTTzQ8q1/PBln0hg)--

From ???@??? Fri Jan 12 16:17:22 2007
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Very strange recording. So that's what it sounds like when empire is
breathing? I'm sure Bob would've liked it.

benedikt

On 1/12/07, Thomas Ashcraft <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> In the observance of the passing of the legendary conspiracy theorist
> Robert Anton Wilson I posted a webpage with a sound recording I made in
> the mid-1990s of a military communications system called GWEN, the
> Ground Wave Emergency Network.   Some people think it serves as a medium
> of governmental mind control or a phenomenon known as "synthetic
> telepathy".    I am personally not implying this, rather I am just an
> observer and recordist.
>
> http://www.heliotown.com/GWEN.html
>
> Please do not listen to this recording if you are high or in an altered
> state of consciousness. Thank you.
>
> TA
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>

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In the observance of the passing of the legendary conspiracy theorist 
Robert Anton Wilson I posted a webpage with a sound recording I made in 
the mid-1990s of a military communications system called GWEN, the 
Ground Wave Emergency Network.   Some people think it serves as a medium 
of governmental mind control or a phenomenon known as "synthetic 
telepathy".    I am personally not implying this, rather I am just an 
observer and recordist.

http://www.heliotown.com/GWEN.html

Please do not listen to this recording if you are high or in an altered 
state of consciousness. Thank you.

TA


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Godspeed, RAW.  Send a message if you get a chance.

On 1/11/07, Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Anton_Wilson
>
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Anton_Wilson

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Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:47:11 -0800
From: Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] contact mic > for body recording
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I've had good results with a 3/8" drill and a Sony lavalier mic...

R.


>i want to record the inside of my mother's body
>
>can you recommend a good quality mic?
>
>i'm after the heart and intestines
>
>
>---------------------------------------
>autistici www.autistici.com
>abstract ambience || broken space
>blueprints (12k) compilation : out now
>
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-- 

--
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(Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
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From ???@??? Thu Jan 11 15:32:10 2007
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really nice, i have now the 5 cds material  in flac format with a pdf
of the cover, though its image and liner notes are i believe weak. but
it doesn't matter, the essence is the content.


2007/1/11, emanuele de raymondi <xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>:
> http://www.kingmaker.net/SymphPl.htm
>
> On 1/11/07, Dario Lucchi <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Andras Hargitai" <xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> > To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> > Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:35 AM
> > Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
> >
> >
> > > digging in... well i rather like personal suggestions than google
> > > links. thanks for sharing.
> >
> >
> > http://www.musichevirtuali.org/music/spc_singles/morel%20+%20babysitting.mp3
> > (second half)
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>

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http://www.kingmaker.net/SymphPl.htm

On 1/11/07, Dario Lucchi <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andras Hargitai" <xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:35 AM
> Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
>
>
> > digging in... well i rather like personal suggestions than google
> > links. thanks for sharing.
>
>
> http://www.musichevirtuali.org/music/spc_singles/morel%20+%20babysitting.mp3
> (second half)
>
>
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On 10/01/2007, at 23.17, David @ Audiobulb wrote:

> i want to record [...] can you recommend a [...] mic?

You might be happy to know about the micbuilders list or the  
phonography list or the nature-recordists list. (all yahoo lists)



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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andras Hargitai" <xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 1:35 AM
Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars


> digging in... well i rather like personal suggestions than google
> links. thanks for sharing.

http://www.musichevirtuali.org/music/spc_singles/morel%20+%20babysitting.mp3
(second half)


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From: Dominic Tetmyer <xxx_xxxxxxx@xxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] first gen mbp
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please correct * i need firewire 800 i have 400 thanks.

On Jan 11, 2007, at 4:22 AM, Dominic Tetmyer wrote:

> Anyone with a first generation Apple MacBook Pro on this list been  
> able to find an ExpressCard/34 which allows Firewire 400 or 800  
> compatibility yet? Chaps my ass to know the second generation MBP  
> has a built in Firewire 800. I suppose this is what I get for  
> ditching the Powerbook quickly and jumping on the Intel bandwagon.  
> Any help in this matter is appreciated. Thanks in advance.
>
> dom.
>
>
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Anyone with a first generation Apple MacBook Pro on this list been  
able to find an ExpressCard/34 which allows Firewire 400 or 800  
compatibility yet? Chaps my ass to know the second generation MBP has  
a built in Firewire 800. I suppose this is what I get for ditching  
the Powerbook quickly and jumping on the Intel bandwagon. Any help in  
this matter is appreciated. Thanks in advance.

dom.


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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 19:01:09 -0800
From: Johan Nilsson <xxxxx@xxxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
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Rafael Toral use something like this in the background of one his  
tunes, I think.

Johan

On Jan 10, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Robert Arnold wrote:

> The Lion Roars: Sounds of the Magnetosphere
> http://science.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/sppb/edu/lionroar/
>
> -- 
>
> --
> Website: http://www.warbaby.com
> (Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not  
> work yet.)
> Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
> Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
> --
>
> "Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God  
> would permit us to be pirates."
>
>          - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi


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From ???@??? Thu Jan 11 00:35:08 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
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digging in... well i rather like personal suggestions than google
links. thanks for sharing.
i was wondering when i saw the prices of the cds that these recordings
made by voyagers should be available for free not for a 100 dollars or
the like...

radio emissions are "everywhere". or is it only a pair of glasses that
we put on when we capture these signals? this question always makes me
think and i get no answer then it fades away...


2007/1/11, Thomas Ashcraft <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>:
> There are space sounds all over the internet. Just google the source you
> want.  They are spread out and embedded within astronomy websites.  (
> Google "Sound of pulsars" for example).
>
> Hear my own solar recordings at
> http://www.heliotown.com/Radio_Sun_Introduction.html
>
> Hear my Jupiter/Io recordings at
> http://www.heliotown.com/Jupiter_Pulse_&_Power.html
>
> Hear some extended forward scatter meteor recordings at
> http://www.heliotown.com/Phonography_Radio_Leonids.html
>
> All my recordings are done with home built but ultrasensitive
> instruments.  My antennas are my active nerve ends. I bioport the
> waveforms from outer space into my central nervous system.
>
> Main-nerving (mainlining) solar coronal mass ejections, bioporting
> plasma oscillations and jumpering jovian synchrotron radiation can be
> quite thrilling if you can enter the right modality and entrain with the
> complex waveforms.
>
> Culturally, I see this work as a part of the future form of sound that
> will be post-artifice, possibly post-art.
>
> Thomas Ashcraft
>
>
>
> Andras Hargitai wrote:
> > and that is not all!
> > on http://www.body-mind.com the rest of the recorded planets are
> > there. :)
> > its been a long time that i was so curious about anything like these..
> > i was already familiar with vlf recordings and numbers stations maybe
> > i can compare my feelings to what i felt when i met those things...
> >
> >
> > 2007/1/10, Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>:
> >>
> >> On 2007 Jan 10, at 2:45 PM, Andras Hargitai wrote:
> >>
> >> > ugly page but nice sounds:)
> >> > i was wondering if nasa or anyone released a cd with these solar
> >> > system planets' radio signals...
> >> > any ideas?
> >>
> >>
> >> Around the early 90's, I bought this 5 disc set:
> >>
> >> http://tinyurl.com/yz35g9
> >>
> >> The CDs could've been condensed into about 2 discs
> >> because each one is only about 30 minutes.
> >> No real liner notes, so you can't be sure which planet
> >> that you're listening to if that means anything to you.
> >> I like each one of them. They approach more of an
> >> ever-changing drone situation rather than something abrasively rattling.
> >>
> >>
> >> Rod
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> Now playing: Maarten Altena Quartet - Monk's Measure
> >>
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> >> website: http://www.microsound.org
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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From ???@??? Thu Jan 11 00:22:51 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
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There are space sounds all over the internet. Just google the source you 
want.  They are spread out and embedded within astronomy websites.  ( 
Google "Sound of pulsars" for example).

Hear my own solar recordings at   
http://www.heliotown.com/Radio_Sun_Introduction.html

Hear my Jupiter/Io recordings at
http://www.heliotown.com/Jupiter_Pulse_&_Power.html

Hear some extended forward scatter meteor recordings at
http://www.heliotown.com/Phonography_Radio_Leonids.html

All my recordings are done with home built but ultrasensitive 
instruments.  My antennas are my active nerve ends. I bioport the 
waveforms from outer space into my central nervous system.

Main-nerving (mainlining) solar coronal mass ejections, bioporting 
plasma oscillations and jumpering jovian synchrotron radiation can be 
quite thrilling if you can enter the right modality and entrain with the 
complex waveforms.

Culturally, I see this work as a part of the future form of sound that 
will be post-artifice, possibly post-art. 

Thomas Ashcraft



Andras Hargitai wrote:
> and that is not all!
> on http://www.body-mind.com the rest of the recorded planets are 
> there. :)
> its been a long time that i was so curious about anything like these..
> i was already familiar with vlf recordings and numbers stations maybe
> i can compare my feelings to what i felt when i met those things...
>
>
> 2007/1/10, Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>:
>>
>> On 2007 Jan 10, at 2:45 PM, Andras Hargitai wrote:
>>
>> > ugly page but nice sounds:)
>> > i was wondering if nasa or anyone released a cd with these solar
>> > system planets' radio signals...
>> > any ideas?
>>
>>
>> Around the early 90's, I bought this 5 disc set:
>>
>> http://tinyurl.com/yz35g9
>>
>> The CDs could've been condensed into about 2 discs
>> because each one is only about 30 minutes.
>> No real liner notes, so you can't be sure which planet
>> that you're listening to if that means anything to you.
>> I like each one of them. They approach more of an
>> ever-changing drone situation rather than something abrasively rattling.
>>
>>
>> Rod
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ---
>> Now playing: Maarten Altena Quartet - Monk's Measure
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>
>
>


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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 23:43:38 2007
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From: Andras Hargitai <xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] The Lion Roars
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and that is not all!
on http://www.body-mind.com the rest of the recorded planets are there. :)
its been a long time that i was so curious about anything like these..
i was already familiar with vlf recordings and numbers stations maybe
i can compare my feelings to what i felt when i met those things...


2007/1/10, Rod Stasick <xxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>:
>
> On 2007 Jan 10, at 2:45 PM, Andras Hargitai wrote:
>
> > ugly page but nice sounds:)
> > i was wondering if nasa or anyone released a cd with these solar
> > system planets' radio signals...
> > any ideas?
>
>
> Around the early 90's, I bought this 5 disc set:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/yz35g9
>
> The CDs could've been condensed into about 2 discs
> because each one is only about 30 minutes.
> No real liner notes, so you can't be sure which planet
> that you're listening to if that means anything to you.
> I like each one of them. They approach more of an
> ever-changing drone situation rather than something abrasively rattling.
>
>
> Rod
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---
> Now playing: Maarten Altena Quartet - Monk's Measure
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org
>
>

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 22:57:41 2007
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On 2007 Jan 10, at 2:45 PM, Andras Hargitai wrote:

> ugly page but nice sounds:)
> i was wondering if nasa or anyone released a cd with these solar
> system planets' radio signals...
> any ideas?


Around the early 90's, I bought this 5 disc set:

http://tinyurl.com/yz35g9

The CDs could've been condensed into about 2 discs
because each one is only about 30 minutes.
No real liner notes, so you can't be sure which planet
that you're listening to if that means anything to you.
I like each one of them. They approach more of an
ever-changing drone situation rather than something abrasively rattling.


Rod






---
Now playing: Maarten Altena Quartet - Monk's Measure

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 22:43:54 2007
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Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 23:43:46 +0100
From: eretsua <xxxxxxxxx_xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] contact mic > for body recording
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i got pretty good (though not "perfect") results with sticking a simple, 
homebuild contactmic on (skinny) people's chests. the mic used to be a 
"soundgenerating birthday card" that got transformed to a contact mic by a 
friend of mine.

~vincent
www.eretsua.com
www.myspace.com/eretsuamusic

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David @ Audiobulb" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 11:17 PM
Subject: [microsound] contact mic > for body recording


>i want to record the inside of my mother's body
>
> can you recommend a good quality mic?
>
> i'm after the heart and intestines
>
>
> ---------------------------------------
> autistici www.autistici.com
> abstract ambience || broken space
> blueprints (12k) compilation : out now
>
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>
> 


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Damn... stole my funny...

The intestines make some seriously disgusting sounds, its great fun.


aLEKs






On Jan 10, 2007, at 5:32 PM, Brent Colflesh wrote:

> A mike in one of his mom's acoustic openings might work as well.
>
>
> Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
>> Stick a sensitive lavalier mic right up to the acoustic opening of the
>> ear piece of the stethoscope.
>> ~Kyle
>> On 1/10/07, Derek Mason <xxxxx.xxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>> ....mmmmm.....how can one connect the stethoscope to a mic or amp to  
>>> record.  I am sure it has been done before.
>>>
>>> Maybe you should ask your doctor?
>>>
>>> D.
>>>
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "David @ Audiobulb" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx>
>>> > To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>>> > Subject: [microsound] contact mic > for body recording
>>> > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:17:08 -0000
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > i want to record the inside of my mother's body
>>> >
>>> > can you recommend a good quality mic?
>>> >
>>> > i'm after the heart and intestines
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ---------------------------------------
>>> > autistici www.autistici.com
>>> > abstract ambience || broken space
>>> > blueprints (12k) compilation : out now
>>> >
>>> >  
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>>> > website: http://www.microsound.org
>>>
>>> >
>>>
>>>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 22:32:38 2007
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A mike in one of his mom's acoustic openings might work as well.


Kyle Klipowicz wrote:
> Stick a sensitive lavalier mic right up to the acoustic opening of the
> ear piece of the stethoscope.
> 
> ~Kyle
> 
> On 1/10/07, Derek Mason <xxxxx.xxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> ....mmmmm.....how can one connect the stethoscope to a mic or amp to 
>> record.  I am sure it has been done before.
>>
>> Maybe you should ask your doctor?
>>
>> D.
>>
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "David @ Audiobulb" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx>
>> > To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
>> > Subject: [microsound] contact mic > for body recording
>> > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:17:08 -0000
>> >
>> >
>> > i want to record the inside of my mother's body
>> >
>> > can you recommend a good quality mic?
>> >
>> > i'm after the heart and intestines
>> >
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------
>> > autistici www.autistici.com
>> > abstract ambience || broken space
>> > blueprints (12k) compilation : out now
>> >
>> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> > website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
>> website: http://www.microsound.org
>>
>>
> 
> 

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 22:29:41 2007
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Stick a sensitive lavalier mic right up to the acoustic opening of the
ear piece of the stethoscope.

~Kyle

On 1/10/07, Derek Mason <xxxxx.xxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> ....mmmmm.....how can one connect the stethoscope to a mic or amp to record.  I am sure it has been done before.
>
> Maybe you should ask your doctor?
>
> D.
>
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David @ Audiobulb" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx>
> > To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> > Subject: [microsound] contact mic > for body recording
> > Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:17:08 -0000
> >
> >
> > i want to record the inside of my mother's body
> >
> > can you recommend a good quality mic?
> >
> > i'm after the heart and intestines
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------
> > autistici www.autistici.com
> > abstract ambience || broken space
> > blueprints (12k) compilation : out now
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> > website: http://www.microsound.org
>
> >
>
>
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>
>


-- 

http://theradioproject.com
http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com

(((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())())))
(())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((())))
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 22:26:42 2007
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.....mmmmm.....how can one connect the stethoscope to a mic or amp to record.  I am sure it has been done before.

Maybe you should ask your doctor?

D.
 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David @ Audiobulb" <xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xx.xx>
> To: microsound <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Subject: [microsound] contact mic > for body recording
> Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2007 22:17:08 -0000
> 
> 
> i want to record the inside of my mother's body
> 
> can you recommend a good quality mic?
> 
> i'm after the heart and intestines
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------------
> autistici www.autistici.com
> abstract ambience || broken space
> blueprints (12k) compilation : out now
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> For additional commands, e-mail: xxxxxxxxxx-xxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
> website: http://www.microsound.org

>


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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 22:19:40 2007
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i want to record the inside of my mother's body

can you recommend a good quality mic?

i'm after the heart and intestines


---------------------------------------
autistici www.autistici.com
abstract ambience || broken space
blueprints (12k) compilation : out now

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 22:13:38 2007
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oh man thank you so much! could you encode it to flac or ape?
thanks again!

András


2007/1/10, Autodot <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>:
> Well actually, funny you should ask...
> I have it.
> It is amazing.
> Will rip it & post it as soon as I have time.
>
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Well actually, funny you should ask...
I have it.
It is amazing.
Will rip it & post it as soon as I have time.

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thanks autodot!
oh my god, could be really hard to get this... anyone who has a rip of
it or something?
thanks again.

2007/1/10, Autodot <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>:
> There was a flexi disc record released w/ National Geographic that had
> samples of all these and pulsars.
>
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There was a flexi disc record released w/ National Geographic that had 
samples of all these and pulsars.

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 21:04:47 2007
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Wow, outer space sounds suspiciously like Merzbow...

~David

On 1/10/07, Andras Hargitai <xxxxxx.xxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> ugly page but nice sounds:)
> i was wondering if nasa or anyone released a cd with these solar
> system planets' radio signals...
> any ideas?
>
> András
>
> 2007/1/10, Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>:
> > The Lion Roars: Sounds of the Magnetosphere
> > http://science.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/sppb/edu/lionroar/
> >
> > --
> >
> > --
> > Website: http://www.warbaby.com
> > (Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
> > Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
> > Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
> > --
> >
> > "Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would
> > permit us to be pirates."
> >
> >           - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
> >
> >
>
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ugly page but nice sounds:)
i was wondering if nasa or anyone released a cd with these solar
system planets' radio signals...
any ideas?

András

2007/1/10, Robert Arnold <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx>:
> The Lion Roars: Sounds of the Magnetosphere
> http://science.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/sppb/edu/lionroar/
>
> --
>
> --
> Website: http://www.warbaby.com
> (Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
> Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
> Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
> --
>
> "Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would
> permit us to be pirates."
>
>           - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
>
>

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 18:20:55 2007
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The Lion Roars: Sounds of the Magnetosphere
http://science.nasa.gov/ssl/pad/sppb/edu/lionroar/

-- 

--
Website: http://www.warbaby.com
(Currently undergoing an overhaul. Some pages and links may not work yet.)
Blog: http://raggedwings.blogspot.com/
Nifty Stuff: http://www.cafepress.com/warbaby
--

"Now and then we had a hope that if we lived and were good, God would 
permit us to be pirates."

          - Mark Twain, Life on the Mississippi
--Boundary_(ID_KLyeYqceT81qAzovE83tdg)--

From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 17:35:18 2007
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need to organize a gaggle of .pdf academic papers scattered all over  
your hard drive?
OS X only -- but looks very cool:
http://mekentosj.com/papers/

--Boundary_(ID_UOzjFCTR6Gt4RqIuIOLoBQ)--

From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 12:39:14 2007
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From: Jon <xxxxxxxx@xxx.xxx.xx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] OT: iphone
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i don't really want to join the drooling masses over this one, but  
i'm sure it has audio potential - i think someone (jobs?) said it  
runs os x, so it has core audio and stuff...

> http://www.apple.com/iphone/
>
> this is so cool. i hope it is drool proof. i want one.
>
> wondering if there will be any audio/music apps for this? seems  
> like you could turn it into a perfect little field recorder.



_________________________________________

feral medïa (a record label)
e:        xxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx.xx
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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 03:19:44 2007
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mexico seems to be where it's @ these days for film!

(suddenly i'm reminded of that subplot joke from 'bowfinger' where  
the illegal mexican workers end up making the next citizen kane by  
the end)

On 9-Jan-07, at 8:11 PM, Kim Cascone wrote:

>  An hour on film and friendship with three Mexican filmmakers:  
> Alfonso Cuaron, director of "Children of Men", Guillermo del Toro,  
> director of "Pan's Labyrinth", and Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu,  
> director of "Babel"
> http://video.google.com/videoplay? 
> docid=-8155571489738252066&q=charlie+rose+cuaron&hl=en
>


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  An hour on film and friendship with three Mexican filmmakers:  
Alfonso Cuaron, director of "Children of Men", Guillermo del Toro,  
director of "Pan's Labyrinth", and Alejandro Gonzalez Inarritu,  
director of "Babel"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8155571489738252066&q=charlie 
+rose+cuaron&hl=en

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is anyone round these parts in or around rouen, france?  i'll be spending a 
lot of time there from february or march this year, and would be interested 
in making some contacts, hearing about what goes on, etc.  i'd also like to 
ask about some practical info, ie public transport (i'll be about 30 miles 
outside of the city, without a car)...

best,
patrick

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 00:55:36 2007
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Sorry for the cross post.  I can't wait to see when Pure Data gets on this
thing.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/

~Kyle

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From ???@??? Wed Jan 10 00:51:06 2007
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http://www.apple.com/iphone/

this is so cool. i hope it is drool proof. i want one.

wondering if there will be any audio/music apps for this? seems like  
you could turn it into a perfect little field recorder.

g.

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From ???@??? Tue Jan  9 09:44:36 2007
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From: Thierry Coduys <xxxxxxx.xxxxxx@xx-xxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [microsound] =?ISO-8859-1?Q?IanniX_0.638=DF?=
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Hello,

We are proud to announce the release of IanniX-0.638 beta, available  
on sourceforge.net for Mac OS X, GNU/Linux and Windows.
You can download it for free at the following addresses:

Mac OS X UB
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/iannix/IanniX-0.638b-OSX.tgz? 
modtime=1168266460&big_mirror=0

GNU/Linux
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/iannix/IanniX-0.638b-Linux.tgz? 
modtime=1168266385&big_mirror=0

Win XP
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/iannix/IanniX-0.638b-Windows.zip? 
modtime=1168266577&big_mirror=0

Sources
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/iannix/IanniX-0.638b-SRC- 
LittleEndian.tgz?modtime=1168266541&big_mirror=0
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/iannix/IanniX-0.638b-SRC- 
BigEndian.tgz?modtime=1168266511&big_mirror=0

Examples
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/iannix/IanniX-Processing- 
Examples-1.2.tgz?modtime=1165849293&big_mirror=0

Tutorial
http://downloads.sourceforge.net/iannix/IanniX-Tutorial.pdf? 
modtime=1164368952&big_mirror=0

Any feedback, comment, bug report, etc, would be greatly appreciated  
and can be posted to the following mailing-list:

https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/iannix-discussion

Sorry for the cross-posting

Enjoy,

The IanniX Team.


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From ???@??? Tue Jan  9 07:56:05 2007
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emanuele,

I really have to thank you for this. If I'd ever heard this before, it was probably way back in '62. Put a smile on my face. 

I'd no idea what I was listening to until after I fired it up. I just happened to be looking out my window at the Space Needle and what was the site of the World's Fair.

d4l3d

--- On Mon 01/08, emanuele de raymondi < xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx > wrote:From: emanuele de raymondi [mailto: xxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx]To: xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxxDate: Mon, 8 Jan 2007 16:42:00 -0500Subject: [microsound] man in space with soundson the subject of sci-fi music,
did you guys hear of Attilio Mineo?
some pretty interesting stuff for 1962!
(note the contrast between the kitchy,
over-optimistic narrating voice and the frightening,
odd music...)


http://www.amazon.com/Man-Space-Sounds-Attilio-Mineo/dp/samples/B000007RW6/ref=dp_tracks_all_1/002-6477592-0353643#disc_1

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2. Gayway To Heaven

Does that trip refuel on Uranus?


emanuele de raymondi wrote:
> on the subject of sci-fi music,
> did you guys hear of Attilio Mineo?
> some pretty interesting stuff for 1962!
> (note the contrast between the kitchy,
> over-optimistic narrating voice and the frightening,
> odd music...)
> 
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Man-Space-Sounds-Attilio-Mineo/dp/samples/B000007RW6/ref=dp_tracks_all_1/002-6477592-0353643#disc_1 
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From ???@??? Mon Jan  8 21:42:11 2007
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on the subject of sci-fi music,
did you guys hear of Attilio Mineo?
some pretty interesting stuff for 1962!
(note the contrast between the kitchy,
over-optimistic narrating voice and the frightening,
odd music...)


http://www.amazon.com/Man-Space-Sounds-Attilio-Mineo/dp/samples/B000007RW6/ref=dp_tracks_all_1/002-6477592-0353643#disc_1
--Boundary_(ID_ChwuSjFrnh1vn9CYdKPiSg)--

From ???@??? Sun Jan  7 12:03:59 2007
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Date: Sun, 07 Jan 2007 12:03:49 +0000
From: Pere Josep Villez <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] Job announcement opportunity
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Hi all.
Just wanted to let you know about the following job advertised here:
http://jobs.guardian.co.uk/browse/education/academic/vacancy-1245001.html

We are keen for applications from anywhere in the world.

the post is very creative, flexible and is mainly a role to help develop the
new master's course called Creative and Computational Sound. The units in
the course use Max/Msp/Jitter etc. One specific research interest is in
"microsound" though we are open to a wide gamut of activity interests.

Feel free to ask me any questions, best Pere Josep

Senior Lecturer in Music & Sound Technology - Creative Technologies
University of Portsmouth
*Location: *Hampshire & Isle of Wight
Salary: £31,525 - £38,772
Date posted: 2 Jan 2007
Closing date: 19 Jan 2007


Creative Technologies

£31,525 - £38,772

The Department of Creative Technologies undertakes teaching and research in
an exciting and popular range of subjects including Computational Sound,
Music & Sound Technology, Entertainment Technology, Computer Animation,
Digital Media and Computer Games Technology.

We are further developing the areas of Sound Technology especially at
post-graduate levels, particularly in the area of sound design, computer
music programming, composition and sound for mixed media, interfacing and
interactivity in computer music.

We are looking for new skills in electro-acoustic music and composition,
sound design and advanced sound synthesis, sound to film, computer
programming using graphical dataflow languages such as Max/Msp/Jitter and
someone with experience in collaborating with colleagues across a range of
digital art disciplines.

Quoting ref: AFCC 0135/G.


Pere Josep Villez
Course Leader
Msc Creative and Computational Sound
Creative Technologies
Portsmouth University
Eldon Building
Winston Churchill Avenue
Portsmouth PO1 2DJ

www.port.ac.uk/courses/coursetypes/postgraduate/MScCreativeAndComputationalSound/
www.perevillez.com
www.centuryofnoise.com
--Boundary_(ID_U8uf4KakCe5u1L8yWCPvRA)--

From ???@??? Sun Jan  7 05:51:07 2007
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The house alarm was fantastic - I want it.
About the "zen music" - it sounds to me alot like some of the music out
there now, you know, the noisier stuff. I was thinking that maybe it wasn't
future music so much as current stuff that young people will find soothing
in old age. In high school I would listen to Slayer to nap in the afternoon.
21 years from now I will be 54 years old, will I still be listening to Naked
City to relax? maybe. Will my grand kids think of John Zorn the way I
thought of Glenn Miller? When that scene came on I thought the music was
really cool and I wanted to hear more - my roomate leaned over to me and
said "god, thats awful". Maybe Michael Cains character was just an art-punk
in his youth. Of course zen music isn't really all that easy listening
anyway with all the "random" bell clanging and such - So maybe it is just a
future idea of the music buddhist monks will be producing eventually. I
dunno, it was a really cool moment though.
-- 
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/children-of-men-futuristic-music-tf2900862.html#a8201864
Sent from the Microsound mailing list archive at Nabble.com.


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From ???@??? Fri Jan  5 20:54:39 2007
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Just to make this more interesting: How do you feel about Marcel
Duchamp's version of the Mona Lisa?

I think you can see what I'm getting at, by choosing an example where
we can leave the legal implications aside, and focus on the aesthetic
implications... You are probably better off contacting a lawyer for
specifically legal advice!

~David

On 1/5/07, Cecil Touchon <xxxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> I was watching TV this evening and for a brief moment during a
> commercial for a new show called GAY, STRAIGHT OR TAKEN? on TBS or The
> Lifetime Channel. I saw what looked like one of my paintings in the
> background. I have TIVO so was able to rewind. Sure enough, someone has
> used my image and remade it into a derivative work to fit the stageset
> they were going for. I am not sure what to make of it. Is that copyright
> infringement? see the details at:
> http://collagemuseum.blogspot.com/ please feel free to leave a comment.
> Cecil Touchon
> http://touchon.com
>
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I was watching TV this evening and for a brief moment during a 
commercial for a new show called GAY, STRAIGHT OR TAKEN? on TBS or The 
Lifetime Channel. I saw what looked like one of my paintings in the 
background. I have TIVO so was able to rewind. Sure enough, someone has 
used my image and remade it into a derivative work to fit the stageset 
they were going for. I am not sure what to make of it. Is that copyright 
infringement? see the details at:
http://collagemuseum.blogspot.com/ please feel free to leave a comment.
Cecil Touchon
http://touchon.com

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On Jan 5, 2007, at 9:32 AM, Dominic Tetmyer wrote:

> Hello list,
>
> I am currently in the market for a hardware compressor unit. I would 
> prefer something under the $500 range. Anyone have any experience with 
> a particular brand either bad/good? Please share. Essentially my use 
> of such a compressor will be for warming up sounds and samples, 
> perhaps whole mixes. Either single band or multi-band will do. Also, I 
> can live without a gate/eq/compressor package... unless it is 
> exceptional. So all ideas on this matter are appreciated. Thanks in 
> advance.
>
>

   You might like the 'Really Nice Compressor'
   http://www.fmraudio.com/

   There is the Drawmer MX30 with a gate , and the DL251(which is out of 
your price range)...
   http://www.drawmer.com/


    I like ART products for some reason:
   http://www.zzounds.com/item--ART212

   Sorry about the zzounds link , like the reviews. I don't know alot 
about ART  I know what I like etc. (ha ha ha ha).

       -hope this is help

                                                            -b



  


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On 31/12/06 00:29, "Graham Miller" <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:

> completed a master's thesis on exactly
> this kind of thing (thesis in a nutchell: why don't sci-fi films ever
> try to imagine what the music of the future might sound like?)

Interesting.  Is that available online or could you send me a copy?  I have
a student working on some "imaginary" musics from other times/places and it
might be very helpful for him as well as interesting to me.

John 



-- 
________________________________
John Wynne
Senior Lecturer in Sound Arts
London College of Communication
University of the Arts London

Email   x.xxxxx@xxx.xxxx.xx.xx
Tel     020 7514 6876
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From ???@??? Fri Jan  5 17:32:47 2007
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Hello list,

I am currently in the market for a hardware compressor unit. I would  
prefer something under the $500 range. Anyone have any experience  
with a particular brand either bad/good? Please share. Essentially my  
use of such a compressor will be for warming up sounds and samples,  
perhaps whole mixes. Either single band or multi-band will do. Also,  
I can live without a gate/eq/compressor package... unless it is  
exceptional. So all ideas on this matter are appreciated. Thanks in  
advance.

dom.


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From ???@??? Fri Jan  5 05:35:59 2007
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Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 21:00:16 -0700
From: John Hopkins <xxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] magnatune
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Hi FOlks --

anybody have any experience with http://magnatune.com/info/

??

seems interesting...

Cheers
John

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From ???@??? Wed Jan  3 22:45:21 2007
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Dear All,

A short note to announce Fallt's relaunch on 1 January, 2007.

To coincide with the launch we have uploaded freely available 320  
KBPs MP3s of most of our archive. A cross-section of work is  
available, including the entire 'invalidObject Series' which was  
described by Matt Ffytche in The Wire as "a showcase for the  
extraordinary range of practical approaches within contemporary  
electronic music."

You can find MP3s at the site along with exclusives in a new /audio  
section:

http://www.fallt.com

Thanks you and a Happy New Year.

Best,

Christian

--

Fallt Publishing | Audio Visual Editions

http://www.fallt.com


..



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On 12/31/06, Graham Miller <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx> wrote:
> really? which track? i have that album...
>
> On 31-Dec-06, at 8:55 AM, Steven McLeod wrote:
>
> > When Cain plays the "zen" music with Owen after their strawbery
> > spliff it is in part an Aphex Twin track fron Druqs and either
> > remixed or mixed with something else
> >

http://img243.imageshack.us/my.php?image=snapshot20070103174545bjs9.jpg

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From: Philippe Petit <xxxxxxxx-xxxxx@xxxxxxx.xx>
Subject: [Microsound-announce] BiP_HOp Generation : December playlist
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BiP_HOp Generation on Radio Grenouille  //  88.8 FM
Wednesday evenings  : 19:00 - 20:30 PM  //  Marseille  //  France

December 2006 Playlist

  ARTIST      ALBUM     label

Barry Adamson : stranger on the sofa (Central Control International)
Rope : heresy, and then nothing but tears (Family Vineyard)
Sybarite : cut out shape (Temporary Residence)
(r) : under the cables, into the wind (Important)
Bill Laswell vs. Submerged : brutal calling (Karl)
knives Of Resistance : s/t (demo)
Ulrike Haage : weisses land (Content)
Ateleia : formal sleep (Xeric/Table Of The Elements)
Pow Ensemble : birdsong from inside the egg (X-Or)
Pierre-Yves Macé & Quatuor Pli : crash test 2 (Orkhestra)
Kama Aina : club kama aina (Rumraket)
Offchestra : l'apocalisse di giovanni (Off/Pre)
Leo Abrahams : scene memory (BiP_HOp)
Prima Donkey : rythme exotique (Radical Duke)
Pylône : black grains (Sound On Probation)
Oblong : indicator (Expanding)
Nina Nastasia : on leaving (Fat Cat)
Rodach : on air (Traumton)
Taylor Deupree : 1 am (12K)
W. W. Lowman : plain songs (Who-Hey?)
DAAU : live 2005 (Radical Duke)
Andy Stott : merciless (Modern Love)
Dosh : the lost take (Anticon)
Chris Watson - BJ Nilsen : storm (Touch)
VA. Blueprints (12K)
Welcome : sirs (Fat Cat)
Erika Stucky : princess (Traumton)
Library Tapes : feelings for something lost (Resonant)
The Blow : paper television (Tomlab)
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<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; "><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">BiP_HOp Generation on Radio Grenouille  //  88.8 FM</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Wednesday evenings  : 19:00 - 20:30 PM  //  Marseille  //  France</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">December 2006 Playlist</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Helvetica; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "> ARTIST      ALBUM     label</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; font: normal normal normal 12px/normal Times New Roman; min-height: 15px; "><BR style=""></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Times New Roman">Barry Adamson : stranger on the sofa (Central Control International)</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Rope : heresy, and then nothing but tears (Family Vineyard)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Sybarite : cut out shape (Temporary Residence)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Times New Roman">(r) : under the cables, into the wind (Important)</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Times New Roman">Bill Laswell vs. Submerged : brutal calling (Karl)</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">knives Of Resistance : s/t (demo)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="Times New Roman">Ulrike Haage : weisses land (Content)</FONT></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Ateleia : formal sleep (Xeric/Table Of The Elements)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Pow Ensemble : birdsong from inside the egg (X-Or)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Pierre-Yves Macé & Quatuor Pli : crash test 2 (Orkhestra)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Kama Aina : club kama aina (Rumraket)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Offchestra : l'apocalisse di giovanni (Off/Pre)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Leo Abrahams : scene memory (BiP_HOp)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Prima Donkey : rythme exotique (Radical Duke)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Pylône : black grains (Sound On Probation)</DIV><DIV style="text-align: justify;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Oblong : indicator (Expanding)</DIV><DIV style="text-align: auto;margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Nina Nastasia : on leaving (Fat Cat)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Rodach : on air (Traumton)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Taylor Deupree : 1 am (12K)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">W. 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Blueprints (12K)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Welcome : sirs (Fat Cat)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Erika Stucky : princess (Traumton)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Library Tapes : feelings for something lost (Resonant)</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">The Blow : paper television<FONT class="Apple-style-span" face="American Typewriter"> (Tomlab)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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From ???@??? Wed Jan  3 05:09:07 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] Ponggame
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you can use processing or flash to send OSC data to programs like pd to
generate sound, there may be a way to do the same but I havent downloaded
the pong game.

we built a simple teaching example using pd and processing  to send x and
y coordinates from mouse positions or from other data to three machines
running pd via a router. I have attached a version that was used to create
the illusion of wind blowing through a room when the six speakers were
spread around a room. you might be able to adapt it for what you want to
do



also processing has been updated since this was written so that its code
resembles other java-based languages more closely :
imagelink becomes imageLink
framerate becomes frameRate

I have updated this one yet but will soon
I am not an expert but you can contact me off list if you need help with it

http://puredata.org/
http://processing.org/


greg



> Hello
> I am trying to make a simple (it looks simple)
> installation. It is the game Pong (this version
> http://uri.cat/software/netPong/ ) . I want to divide
> the gamefield in 15 squares and assign an predefined
> soundevcent to each of them. Everytime the ball enters
> a new square, it should trigger the evnt of that
> square. So for this i need a way to track the ball. Is
> there anyone who could help me out? I am just a
> student so i don't have much experience.
> thanks a lot
> Samuel Van Ransbeeck
>
> __________________________________________________
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Hello
I am trying to make a simple (it looks simple)
installation. It is the game Pong (this version
http://uri.cat/software/netPong/ ) . I want to divide
the gamefield in 15 squares and assign an predefined
soundevcent to each of them. Everytime the ball enters
a new square, it should trigger the evnt of that
square. So for this i need a way to track the ball. Is
there anyone who could help me out? I am just a
student so i don't have much experience.
thanks a lot
Samuel Van Ransbeeck

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

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dear readers
hope u ended the year in a pleasant way
for us 2006 was wonderful, managing to create our sound and creating  
a music which satisfies our tastes

2007 looks promising as we have started discussing the release of our  
first album
some comps featuring SOC are announced and should pave the way for  
"Our Moon Is Full".

In the meantime for those impatient among you you can visit our My Space

http://www.myspace.com/stringsofconsciousness

hear our new song in collaboration with Pete Simonelli, voice/texts  
in the super group from San Franciso : ENABLERS
http://www.myspace.com/enablers
http://enablerssf.com/


we have also U-Tubed a video from our live at MIMI festival, a cover  
from Alice Coltrane...

again thanx for your interests, so many of you sent messages or left  
comments or came and listened, almost 25 000...
So definitely THANX TONS for all the support

2007 best wishes to you
philippe





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<HTML><BODY style="word-wrap: break-word; -khtml-nbsp-mode: space; -khtml-line-break: after-white-space; ">dear readers<DIV>hope u ended the year in a pleasant way</DIV><DIV>for us 2006 was wonderful, managing to create our sound and creating a music which satisfies our tastes</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>2007 looks promising as we have started discussing the release of our first album</DIV><DIV>some comps featuring SOC are announced and should pave the way for "Our Moon Is Full".</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>In the meantime for those impatient among you you can visit our My Space</DIV><DIV><DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><A href="http://www.myspace.com/stringsofconsciousness">http://www.myspace.com/stringsofconsciousness</A><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV>hear our new song in collaboration with Pete Simonelli, voice/texts in the super group from San Franciso : ENABLERS</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://www.myspace.com/enablers">http://www.myspace.com/enablers</A></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><A href="http://enablerssf.com">http://enablerssf.com</A>/</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><BR></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">we have also U-Tubed a video from our live at MIMI festival, a cover from Alice Coltrane...</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">again thanx for your interests, so many of you sent messages or left comments or came and listened, almost 25 000... </DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">So definitely THANX TONS for all the support</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2007 best wishes to you</DIV><DIV style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">philippe</DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></DIV><BR><BR></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV><DIV><BR class="khtml-block-placeholder"></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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Hello All, greets of course for a new year,

a online radio program has featuring sound artists from Mandarin speaking background, of so-called noise, experimental soundscape, field recording, sound phenomenons. We like to invite ur listening to - MandarinButton -

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________
MP3 stream hub (live from zurich) : http://proces.artia.org:8080/proces64.mp3.m3u
playlist : http://www.little-object.com:8080/proces64.mp3.m3u
program note (prag)  : http://proces.artia.org/tiki-index.php?page=MandarinButton  <<<<<<<<<<<<<< info
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

MandarinButton host by pei & kiilo

;')
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From ???@??? Mon Jan  1 20:15:09 2007
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From: peter lasell <x_xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: [microsound] Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
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Saw 'Children of Men' and agree that its a brilliant movie.
The credits should list the piece of music used, if it was borrowed.
Sounded like AFX or Shitmat to me.

Happy New Year.

Peter




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From ???@??? Mon Jan  1 17:32:37 2007
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Subject: [microsound] soundtrack listing for children of men
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206634/soundtrack
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From ???@??? Mon Jan  1 11:50:18 2007
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From: Steven McLeod <xxxxxx.xxxxxx@xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
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Oh, not that this is conclusive, 
http://www.yourmovies.com.au/movies/?action=movie_info&title_id=25214 has a 
review that mentions APHEX, still it is not on the OS..still a cracking 
film, I will have to get it out on DVD when it is out, it is one of those 
films I think I could watch again and again.  Wonder if the book is good. 
The fx were particularly spectacular in their subtlety too.. no Hollywood 
fiery explosions etc..scary vision of the very near future!!

steve
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven McLeod" <xxxxxx.xxxxxx@xxx.xxxxx.xxx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Monday, January 01, 2007 11:37 AM
Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music


> Really not sure, I just recognised parts of a rhthym track and other 
> sounds , it is an album I have also but find hard to listen to all in one 
> go.. Would have to watch the film again to be sure, but remember my ears 
> pricking up like a dog in the cinema as  they do whenever I notice a 
> familiar piece in cinema or tv/adverts..hmm will have to listen again to 
> the album..shit hot film tho, the best I have sen in a loooong time
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Graham Miller" <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
> To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:17 PM
> Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
>
>
>> really? which track? i have that album...
>>
>> On 31-Dec-06, at 8:55 AM, Steven McLeod wrote:
>>
>>> When Cain plays the "zen" music with Owen after their strawbery  spliff 
>>> it is in part an Aphex Twin track fron Druqs and either  remixed or 
>>> mixed with something else
>>>
>>> steve
>>> -
>>
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From ???@??? Mon Jan  1 11:37:14 2007
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Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music
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Really not sure, I just recognised parts of a rhthym track and other sounds 
, it is an album I have also but find hard to listen to all in one go.. 
Would have to watch the film again to be sure, but remember my ears pricking 
up like a dog in the cinema as  they do whenever I notice a familiar piece 
in cinema or tv/adverts..hmm will have to listen again to the album..shit 
hot film tho, the best I have sen in a loooong time
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Graham Miller" <xxxxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xx>
To: "microsound" <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx>
Sent: Sunday, December 31, 2006 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [microsound] children of men/futuristic music


> really? which track? i have that album...
>
> On 31-Dec-06, at 8:55 AM, Steven McLeod wrote:
>
>> When Cain plays the "zen" music with Owen after their strawbery  spliff 
>> it is in part an Aphex Twin track fron Druqs and either  remixed or mixed 
>> with something else
>>
>> steve
>> -
>
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>
>
> -- 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.0/610 - Release Date: 30/12/2006 
> 14:59
>
> 


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