From alex Sent Tue, Mar 27th 2018, 10:28
From alex Sent Tue, Mar 27th 2018, 10:28
I guess at this point this list is mostly white men aged 40+.. so it's pretty pointless trying to have an informed debate about gender and violence here. With the #metoo movement etc though I think men are reaching more understanding of the struggle women get through, and less likely to shrug off the topic of domestic violence as a joke. I don't know beatwife, his music, why he chose that name, or whether he's ever appeared on the same billing as a woman.. Lets just make space for a healthier + more diverse generation to replace us. Line-ups are getting more diverse + more interesting all the time. Lets focus on supporting that. cheers On 26 March 2018 at 16:31, Quizzik <xxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: > Totally with you, Nat. Irresponsible name. > Keep it up. > > > soundcloud.com/quizzik > > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 11:18 PM, nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> >> "but maybe we're being "hypersensitive". sigh."?! >> >> >> Sorry, but no way. >> >> >> Beatwife? >> >> Bullshit name. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Mauro <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> >> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:48 PM >> To: nat hawks >> Cc: 22tape; xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx; psycosyin >> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast >> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:15 PM, nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> > Hello Mauro! >> > >> > >> > Thanks for jumping in. >> > >> > >> > To clarify, I should have been more careful with my wording. "Hate >> > speech" >> > obviously has its own, specific, (now legal) definition. What I meant >> > to >> > say was just that "there is hate in these words." >> > >> >> each word individually have their own meaning, but 2+2=3D... so, yes. i >> agree. >> >> > >> > I'd also like to agree with your criticism on my "men do x" statement. >> > You're right. I was feeling frustrated in the moment that I felt a >> > sense of >> > traditional male values creeping in (though it could have just been me >> > feeling sensitive at the time). [in my case it would more be a "real >> > men >> > cry" argument] >> > >> >> don't worry. that's why i asked to take a break. in the heat of the >> moment / out of frustration we end up saying things we don't fully >> agree. >> >> > >> > In terms of making assumptions about someone's intentions behind, say,= a >> > group name... it's an interesting debate. Personally, in this case I >> > feel >> > like there is basically zero gray area though. >> > >> >> i don't *really* know why the musician choose those words. i mean, he >> could have chosen "rimjob" as an alias but he didn't. and it would >> have been the same since he would be "working with the rim of the >> snare" or some bs like that. right? >> >> i agree with you that being naive and letting these things go through >> are invisibilizing violence towards a pretty specific group of people. >> but maybe we're being "hypersensitive". sigh. >> >> > ________________________________ >> > From: Mauro <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> >> > Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:00 PM >> > To: 22tape >> > Cc: nat hawks; xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx; psycosyin >> > Subject: Re: beatwife podcast >> > >> > On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:43 PM, 22tape <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> >> Yeah, they=E2=80=99re both victims of sexual assault... so no safe pr= ivilege >> >> here. >> >> >> > >> > hi. instead of dismissing what nat is saying. we could take a step >> > outside of this thread and think about it for a moment. >> > on one hand (with hanlon's razor in hand) we can't directly attribute >> > that beatwife is spreading hate-speech. >> > on the other hand, we can't either give the benefit of the doubt to >> > naming things like this (not just beatwife, but goat whore, stage 4 >> > cancer, prostitute disfigurement also. to name a few). >> > >> > nat: i'd like to point out that "real men do x" is a bit silly, >> > because you're forcing men to act in a certain way (ie: real men don't >> > cry.) to avoid seeing them as less-than-a-man (i'll leave the blank >> > space to be filled in). and i'll just stop typing here to avoid being >> > seen as a sjw. >> > >> > either way, i'm really happy that this kind of discussion are taking >> > place (it means that something a revision because it got out-dated). >> > also, no godwin's law so far ! >> > >> > >> >> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> And they are correct in that regards!!! You are right. But, I do >> >>> think >> >>> women need protecting because currently in our world they are not >> >>> protected >> >>> and they are being disproportionately hurt. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Something to consider: sometimes it is from (no assumptions of your >> >>> family) a place of safe privilege where we can make such statements. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: 22tape <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:17 PM >> >>> >> >>> To: nat hawks >> >>> Cc: xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx; psycosyin >> >>> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast >> >>> I=E2=80=99m actually sitting here with my mom and sister (who are bo= th >> >>> feminists) >> >>> having a cup of coffee talking about fisting. They are not offended. >> >>> They >> >>> actually think this whole thread is hilarious. Idealogues are >> >>> hilarious! >> >>> They think that your heart is in the right place, but they also thin= k >> >>> that >> >>> men who view women as monolithic creatures who need protecting are >> >>> sorely >> >>> mislead. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 6:08 PM nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote= : >> >>> >> >>> 22tape, imagine what a female would feel reading your last post. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> A female who is trying to learn more about a male-dominated genre of >> >>> music >> >>> she loves? Making idm herself. >> >>> >> >>> She would be rightfully disgusted. "fist" (while an accepted >> >>> consensual >> >>> act) connotes violence without context. >> >>> >> >>> sexual violence. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> ________________________________ >> >>> From: 22tape <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> >> >>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:04 PM >> >>> To: nat hawks >> >>> Cc: xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx; psycosyin >> >>> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast >> >>> >> >>> What if it=E2=80=99s a female fisting another female? >> >>> >> >>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:52 PM nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote= : >> >>> >> >>> 1. Beatwife=3Dbeat wife. Period. >> >>> 2. Skinny Puppy isn't a great example, but I hear you. Someone >> >>> mentioned >> >>> Goat Whore. Personally, I think that is a vile band name that >> >>> perpetuates >> >>> the abuse of women. >> >>> 3. Fisted Sister=3Dperpetuates abuse against women. >> >>> >> >>> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> >> >>> > On Mar 25, 2018, at 6:41 PM, psycosyin <xxxxxxxxx@xx.xx.xxx> wrote= : >> >>> > >> >>> > He isn't saying anything literally about beating one's wife, it's >> >>> > just >> >>> > a >> >>> > word with no context attached, as far as I know. There is a band >> >>> > named >> >>> > Skinny Puppy, they aren't saying "you should starve your baby dog"= . >> >>> > >> >>> > I guess my dream of starting a hair metal cover band named Fisted >> >>> > Sister >> >>> > wouldn't go over well around here. >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > <RAW> >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> 22tape/jared dunne >> >>> listen >> >>> >> >>> -- >> >>> 22tape/jared dunne >> >>> listen >> >> >> >> -- >> >> 22tape/jared dunne >> >> listen > > --=20 http://yaxu.org/