From lwtcdi Sent Sat, Jan 24th 1998, 03:02
From lwtcdi Sent Sat, Jan 24th 1998, 03:02
>>> Is BoC really so unique-sounding? On one level, isn't the entire output of >>> Skam just an interesting and competent take on the various shades of >>> Autechre? >>That's why I kind of get fed up about with >>people going on about the releases like they're the most important >>pieces of music being made right now. >BoC are the best on the IDM scene right now, imo. If we're talking strictly IDM in terms of the type of music this list was originally set up to discuss, then yeah, I'd agree. But that's exactly what I'm against. To adhere to this old ideal of IDM is ludicrous and is exactly what is holding the music and the comments on this list back somewhat. If new IDM includes certain parts of newer scences such as trip-hop and particularly drum and bass (which in my opinion it certainly does) then Boards are certainly not 'the best' or 'the most original' on the scene right now. It depends on how wide or narrow you consider IDM to be. I know you were discussing Fila Brazillia a few days ago. Do you consider them to be IDM or not? I would be interested to know. I would assume so, seeing as you were discussing them on this list... Also, don't you think that sometimes a lack of originality can detract from how good the music actually is? As much as I like the Hi Scores EP, I don't listen to it much, 'cos it's somewhat nostalgic and I got what I would've got out of it out of similar earlier releases (like the 1st Autechre LP). >They have so specific programming, and sound so original and so '97/98 . . . They don't even sound vaguely '97/'98 IMO. Have you heard Autechre's "Incunabula" at all? A lot of these tracks could be plucked straight from here (circa '93). Boards sound strictly '93/'94 IDM to me... >>Enjoyable and quality but not very original. >Who is ORIGINAL then ?!?! Good question. Right now, not many people, IMO. But just for fun, how about Mouse on Mars, Company Flow, Autechre (in themselves, although even they're not progressing in leaps and bounds), Buckfunk 3000, Bjork, new RDJ, Drome, Photek, Dillinja, Krust, Suv (and more in the same vein of these last three - but you know my opinion on them, right?) and maybe Uriel and Tortoise too, but you could probably find a good way to contest these last 2. >>>Well, I don't know if I'd go that far, but it's definately retro. >Who isn't RETRO ? Plenty of people. Keep your ears open and you *will* hear it in places. I'm not hearing it that much right now, but that's 'cos drum and bass made me re-evaluate music so much that I think it will take a long time for something to appear than can do the same (or better) again. >>> While the BoC 12" on Skam was enjoyable, I thought both the melodies and the >>> beats were piss-weak compared to prime Black Dog, a comparison made by >>> someone at the time of its release. >Again, and again, and again, you're never learn..... >I think it's time for NSE (new school electronica) mailing list. Why? BOC aren't new school electronica. New school electronica is music such as the list of artists I suggested. New school electronica doesn't have to adhere to old school ideals... >The difference between BDP and BoC is that BDP sound >93/94 and BoC sound 97/98.... Still don't agree... >I don't have nothing against BDP, infact one the best albums, I've >heard is 'Temple of ....' One of my utter faves too - would probably make it into my top ten of all time. My fave BD album by quite a long way. >But the thing is that BDP time has passed. Fuck it, I'll allways >love their music, but children that are born in late eighties probably >won't rate it so much. At the moment BoC are so much innovative >than BDP is, they don't even exist anymore, it's just Ken now... Total rot. Plaid still exist, and to some degree *they* are still making music that is similar to what they were doing years ago and they, I suppose a bit like Autechre, will always be original to some degree as they were significantly different to the other techno artists at the time. BOC on the other hand, good as they are, are essentially latecomers to the old-style IDM/AI scene. They are keeping a form of music alive, not creating a new one, and while I'm not debating the merits or otherwise of doing this, that is most certainly what it is... >So don't compare BDP's work from 93/94 with BoC's work, >because it's ridiculous. Why the hell not, they do share a lot of common ground. You could certainly listen to musics that were a hell of a lot futher apart. BOC and Black Dog are certainly more closely related than say Optical and Black Dog, or Squarepusher and Black Dog (just a couple of '97/'98 artists who pushed things more than BOC). My wish for music to be original and different comes from my permanent hunger for something new. I want music to be perfect, to be the best it can be, and for me that very much includes it going beyond the boundaries that have been set previously. Who wants a record collection of music that all follows the same line of reasoning. Not me. >Imagine that today is 1993. You have AI comp. and someone >tells you : "Yeah, I've heard it, but this was all crated by Carl Craig >(i.e.) >few years ago. Music isn't what it's used to be." You could say that and believe it. It's not what I believe though. IMO Black Dog and Carl Craig are very different. I realise music evolves, and that it may take many years of mutation of one sound before it sounds radically different from the one that spawned it (ie jungle from hardcore) but IMO you can't even here the slight mutation or spark of originality that makes BOC different from older IDM/AI. >Mainly what I'm trying to say here is that BDP have totaly different >influences and belong to different time that BoC do. Their influences are reflected in the music they make. When someones influences are heavily slanted towards a particular band or type of music (as BOCs seem to be), their results may often come out very much like the music they are influenced by (often much worse, so all credit to BOC for this). BD and BOC may have had different influences, but they are all on the same line. BD may have had earlier influences than BOC, but BOC have absorbed these influences without knowing it through listening to and recreating the music they love (old IDM). >And you cannot say that BDP have much better melodies or rhythms than >BoC have. I'm not saying that at all. BOC may well be an 'improvement' on early Black Dog or Autechre, but if so that improvement is only minor and IMO not significant enough to make them any more original. >Fuck it again, you can think and listen to anything you >like and want, who am I to advise you what you can or can't. And vice versa, but at least we can hope to others points of view. >These are just my toughts and I hope I didn't offend or hurt >someones feelings, cos this wasn't my intention at all. Not at all, it's all just opinion, man. If everyone was free of the music of the past maybe we could evaluate music solely on merit and not originality. I dunno, I would love this to be the case, but it just aint possible. An appreciation but desire not to repeat the music of the past keeps the ideas of small percentages of generations of musicians pointed firmly to the future. gb. -- /TheW i http://www.homeusers.prestel.co.uk/lwtcdi/all/ f o L D o dlr WTC "Let's decompose and enjoy assembling!"