Re: beatwife podcast

From Mauro
Sent Mon, Mar 26th 2018, 01:48

On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 10:15 PM, nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
> Hello Mauro!
>
>
> Thanks for jumping in.
>
>
> To clarify, I should have been more careful with my wording.  "Hate speec=
h"
> obviously has its own, specific, (now legal) definition.  What I meant to
> say was just that "there is hate in these words."
>

each word individually have their own meaning, but 2+2=3D... so, yes. i agr=
ee.

>
> I'd also like to agree with your criticism on my "men do x" statement.
> You're right.  I was feeling frustrated in the moment that I felt a sense=
 of
> traditional male values creeping in (though it could have just been me
> feeling sensitive at the time).  [in my case it would more be a "real men
> cry" argument]
>

don't worry. that's why i asked to take a break. in the heat of the
moment / out of frustration we end up saying things we don't fully
agree.

>
> In terms of making assumptions about someone's intentions behind, say, a
> group name... it's an interesting debate.  Personally, in this case I fee=
l
> like there is basically zero gray area though.
>

i don't *really* know why the musician choose those words. i mean, he
could have chosen "rimjob" as an alias but he didn't. and it would
have been the same since he would be "working with the rim of the
snare" or some bs like that. right?

i agree with you that being naive and letting these things go through
are invisibilizing violence towards a pretty specific group of people.
but maybe we're being "hypersensitive". sigh.

> ________________________________
> From: Mauro <xxxxxxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:00 PM
> To: 22tape
> Cc: nat hawks; xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx; psycosyin
> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast
>
> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 9:43 PM, 22tape <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>> Yeah, they=E2=80=99re both victims of sexual assault... so no safe privi=
lege here.
>>
>
> hi. instead of dismissing what nat is saying. we could take a step
> outside of this thread and think about it for a moment.
> on one hand (with hanlon's razor in hand) we can't directly attribute
> that beatwife is spreading hate-speech.
> on the other hand, we can't either give the benefit of the doubt to
> naming things like this (not just beatwife, but goat whore, stage 4
> cancer, prostitute disfigurement also. to name a few).
>
> nat: i'd like to point out that "real men do x" is a bit silly,
> because you're forcing men to act in a certain way (ie: real men don't
> cry.) to avoid seeing them as less-than-a-man (i'll leave the blank
> space to be filled in). and i'll just stop typing here to avoid being
> seen as a sjw.
>
> either way, i'm really happy that this kind of discussion are taking
> place (it means that something a revision because it got out-dated).
> also, no godwin's law so far !
>
>
>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> And they are correct in that regards!!!  You are right.  But, I do thin=
k
>>> women need protecting because currently in our world they are not
>>> protected
>>> and they are being disproportionately hurt.
>>>
>>>
>>> Something to consider: sometimes it is from (no assumptions of your
>>> family) a place of safe privilege where we can make such statements.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: 22tape <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:17 PM
>>>
>>> To: nat hawks
>>> Cc: xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx; psycosyin
>>> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast
>>> I=E2=80=99m actually sitting here with my mom and sister (who are both =
feminists)
>>> having a cup of coffee talking about fisting. They are not offended. Th=
ey
>>> actually think this whole thread is hilarious. Idealogues are hilarious=
!
>>> They think that your heart is in the right place, but they also think
>>> that
>>> men who view women as monolithic creatures who need protecting are sore=
ly
>>> mislead.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 6:08 PM nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> 22tape, imagine what a female would feel reading your last post.
>>>
>>>
>>> A female who is trying to learn more about a male-dominated genre of
>>> music
>>> she loves?  Making idm herself.
>>>
>>> She would be rightfully disgusted.  "fist" (while an accepted consensua=
l
>>> act) connotes violence without context.
>>>
>>> sexual violence.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: 22tape <xxxxxx@xxxxx.xxx>
>>> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2018 8:04 PM
>>> To: nat hawks
>>> Cc: xxx@xxxxxxxxx.xxx; psycosyin
>>> Subject: Re: beatwife podcast
>>>
>>> What if it=E2=80=99s a female fisting another female?
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 25, 2018 at 5:52 PM nat hawks <xxxxxx@xxxxxxx.xxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> 1. Beatwife=3Dbeat wife.  Period.
>>> 2. Skinny Puppy isn't a great example, but I hear you.  Someone mention=
ed
>>> Goat Whore.  Personally, I think that is a vile band name that
>>> perpetuates
>>> the abuse of women.
>>> 3. Fisted Sister=3Dperpetuates abuse against women.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> > On Mar 25, 2018, at 6:41 PM, psycosyin <xxxxxxxxx@xx.xx.xxx> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > He isn't saying anything literally about beating one's wife, it's jus=
t
>>> > a
>>> > word with no context attached, as far as I know.   There is a band
>>> > named
>>> > Skinny Puppy, they aren't saying "you should starve your baby dog".
>>> >
>>> > I guess my dream of starting a hair metal cover band named Fisted
>>> > Sister
>>> > wouldn't go over well around here.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > <RAW>
>>>
>>> --
>>> 22tape/jared dunne
>>> listen
>>>
>>> --
>>> 22tape/jared dunne
>>> listen
>>
>> --
>> 22tape/jared dunne
>> listen