From Andrew Horton Sent Thu, Dec 27th 2018, 01:58
Even -18 peaks is totally fine when recording at 24 bits. You can record SO m= uch lower in 24 than 16 without worrying about getting anywhere near the noi= se floor on even the cheapest gear. I also heartily recommend Katz=E2=80=99 b= ook - I=E2=80=99m a professional mastering engineer now.=20 Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 26, 2018, at 8:41 PM, Brian Willoughby <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wr= ote: >=20 > Ha! >=20 > Most of the time, Andrew is right. It has been my experience that -18 dBFS= is a good target, although I place my peaks there, not sustained sounds. Bu= t that fact is that this is hardly a standard that anyone can rely upon. Som= etimes you have to go to great pains to calibrate the meters so that 0 dBFS a= ctually reflects any sort of known reference level. Bob Katz goes over the s= teps in his book. >=20 > At the other end of the spectrum, many analog synths have terrible perform= ance with the master volume at 12 o=E2=80=99clock. Not all are bad there. In= fact, some might work best there. But at least a few synths require maximum= volume if you=E2=80=99re going to get decent signal levels out. It=E2=80=99= s also far more repeatable to aim for max volume than to aim for 12 o-clock,= unless there is a detent there (and even then there can be variation). Agai= n, there is no standard rule that we can rely upon. >=20 > You really have to get to know your gear. >=20 > Brian Willoughby >=20 >=20 >> On Dec 26, 2018, at 5:32 PM, laurie <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx.xxx> wrote: >> and on planet earth ? >> :) >>=20 >>=20 >> ---- On Wed, 26 Dec 2018 19:25:51 -0600 Andrew Horton <xxxxxx.xxxxxx@xxxx= l.com> wrote ---- >> Set all synth self volumes to maximum for best s/n and gain. Set sustaine= d/average levels to -18 - Peaks can go higher. Most ADC=E2=80=99s are calibr= ated so that -18dbfs =3D =E2=80=9Canalog zero=E2=80=9D on a traditional VU M= eter and are designed to sound and operate best at -18.=20 >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone=20 >>=20 >>> On Dec 26, 2018, at 7:14 PM, Brian Willoughby <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxx.xxx> w= rote:=20 >>>=20 >>> This is a tough question to answer, partly because I think there are two= aspects to the answer.=20 >>>=20 >>> 1) Avoid distortion from clipping; maximize signal-to-noise.=20 >>>=20 >>> 2) Postpone adjustments for loudness until the final mixing stage. There= =E2=80=99s a difference between optimizing per-channel S/N and adjusting the= loudness for a good mix. Don=E2=80=99t confuse the two by trying to handle t= hem at the same time with a single control.=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> On the first topic, I would hope that every synth/drum machine would hav= e been designed so that it will not clip its own mixing stages. However, we c= annot rely on this because many audio circuits over the years, even from wel= l-respected brands, have included design mistakes that are less than optimal= . Therefore, it seems that you will have to determine whether each of your s= ynths/drum machines clip internally when the master volume is at maximum, an= d if so then you=E2=80=99ll have to discover the amount that the volume need= s to be reduced until there is no distortion (unless, of course, this distor= tion is part of the sound that you=E2=80=99re trying to record).=20 >>>=20 >>> Part two is whether your =E2=80=9Cmixer" input can handle the maximum vo= lume of each synth/drum machine. In my experience with the MOTU 896HD, the i= nput levels can only be boosted, not attenuated, so there were many recordin= g situations where I needed to reduce the output level on the sending device= because it was otherwise too strong for the 896HD to handle. Analog mixers t= end to have switchable pads, and my Metric Halo Labs interfaces have program= mable Trim that can reduce excessive input levels. If you don=E2=80=99t have= this option, and if any of your synths/drum machines are =E2=80=9Ctoo hot,=E2= =80=9D then you=E2=80=99ll need to reduce the master volume.=20 >>>=20 >>> Personally, even when I have the option for Padding Line level inputs, I= rarely boost a device=E2=80=99s output level if it means that the mixer wil= l need to be Padded. Those pad resistors can add a little noise, so it=E2=80= =99s better to reduce the send level so that the Pad can be disengaged. The r= esult will be cleaner. Of course, it=E2=80=99s generally true that more sign= al level on a cable is better for S/N, but once you=E2=80=99ve reached the l= imits of a +4 dBu Line Level input (which is about +26 dBu!), then you alrea= dy have more than enough S/N. Boosting above this, to the point where you ne= ed Pad resistors, is not going to improve anything at all.=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Finally, you don=E2=80=99t want to sacrifice the signal-to-noise perform= ance of an individual channel by turning it down to adjust its loudness to m= atch anything else. Psychoacoustics research tells us that there is a differ= ence between the level of signal as measured by voltages and meters versus t= he loudness perceived by the human hearing system. Since noise gets worse as= you turn things down, I recommend avoiding the temptation to match loudness= between synths/drum machines, and just maximize the channel S/N. Once you h= ave a mixer full of channels that have minimal noise, you can mix based on l= oudness and retain the option of making some devices louder than others duri= ng part of a song, while other devices might be louder in other parts of the= song.=20 >>>=20 >>> Looking at the above from a different point of view: If you=E2=80=99ve a= lready maximized S/N for every channel, then you no longer have the option o= f turning anything up. Thus, balancing loudness means turning some things do= wn, which just makes the noise worse. Loudness adjustments should be a creat= ive step, possibly automated, and certainly dynamically changing during the p= rogression of a piece of music.=20 >>>=20 >>> Another issue to keep in mind here is that the presets on any synth or d= rum machine will vary drastically from one selection to another. If you try t= o adjust levels to match loudness across devices, that balance will be lost a= s soon as you select a different sound or a different bank of sounds on any o= ne or more synths/drum machines. Instead, if you adjust for maximum signal-t= o-noise, as described above, then your mixing process will be most successfu= l at matching (or mismatching!) loudness, as appropriate for the art.=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Bottom line: These questions are all part of the general topic of =E2=80= =9Cgain staging=E2=80=9D - which is very important in a recording studio. Th= ere=E2=80=99s a lot to learn. I recommend Bob Katz=E2=80=99 =E2=80=9CMasteri= ng Audio: the art and the science=E2=80=9D as one starting point. It won=E2=80= =99t cover all aspects of recording studio gain staging, but it certainly co= vers all of the technical basics that you=E2=80=99ll need. If anything, Bob=E2= =80=99s book is probably more appropriate for your situation, where you have= a digital MOTU interface.=20 >>>=20 >>> Brian Willoughby >=20