Re: [AH] New Serge M-odules released: 'Dual ADSR' and 'Wave Processor'

From Legion
Sent Thu, Aug 14th 2008, 18:46

The Serge/Buchla/Wiard/whatever is "too expensive" debate has been going
on as long as these manufacturers have been in existence. I think what
everyone is missing in all these posts is that there are people BUYING
them at the prices they are. Serge has a backlog of clients and my
understanding is they came out with the small M series to provide some
modules that would have a quicker build time and meet some customer's
needs. They still offer the "more bang for the buck" shop panels which are
twice as much as the M series for the most part.

You can calculate parts, time, etc until your fingers can no longer
twiddle a knob but that isn't going to change a damn thing you know :). As
long as the demand is there (and clearly it is) and the supply is low (as
it certainly is among SERGE certainly, basic Economics will dictate the
price will go up and some folks (perhaps not you)  will continue to buy

The great thing about being into analog and modulars in particulr now is
there is so much choice. No one is "entitled" to a modular but if you're
on a budget and want to try one you've got the opportunity at Doepfer,, etc. A "master's class" type instrument like a Serge or Modcan
accruately corresponds in price to what it offers the market.

Think of it this way:

You can buy a chinese made Stratocaster copy from any music store for $150
or less. If you want a 1957 Fender strat you might pay $10,000 or more.
Both have six strings and a guitar neck but they are apparently not equal.
Saying they are the "same" or "similar" isn't going to change anyone's
mind or the price. Unless of course all that talk makes the guy selling
the $150 copy raise his price :)

As always customers are free to buy them or not of course.

Enjoy your music.


> I have to chime in with my 2 cents on this cost debate. I for one
> don't really care how a piece of electronics are made - by hand or by
> machine (slave labor not-withstanding - personal lines have been
> drawn). A non-maintained robot is just as faulty as a manual worker
> having a bad day. The end results are the the thing of note for me.
> Better quality, higher tolerance, better matched parts all can add to
> the cost and matter a lot more to the performance and stability of
> the finished product than the assembly method. Though I have to say
> that the aesthetics of the wiring harness of a Synthi AKS is stunning
> with all its heat-shrink and wire ties - very labor intensive. The
> question I have is - Are the sonic and CV properties of the Serge
> modules as proportionally higher than other modern modules? I could
> understand the high cost of original Serge modules being a collector
> item etc, but as it has been said on this tread already, is a dual
> ADSR, dual Comparator, and a Dual Transient Generator(which looks
> like dual VC lag to me) for $1650 that much better than what can be
> assembled from separate modules with more features from other
> manufactures. For the cost of that module alone you can get a whole
> basic system from some manufacturers. I can see the argument of VCO
> stability and Filter character being very personal and that
> unmeasurable thing that makes one spend more for one module over
> another, but what about work-horse modules like ADSRs, Mixers, logic
> modules (how can one Logic module be THAT much better than another),
> and basic sequencers? Is it the ergonomics or something else going on
> here that I'm just not connecting with? What makes the Serge
> Sequencer-A, which seems fairly basic to me, cost $1650 when all the
> other modular ones I see come in under half that?
> -JH
> On Aug 14, 2008, at 7:01 AM, Dave Bradley wrote:
>> Bingo.
>> Arrick has super low manufacturing costs, due to being able to
>> piggyback his
>> synth business tooling onto his robotics business. All his pots,
>> for better
>> or worse, have a standard connector harness and plug in to whatever
>> circuit
>> board they are being used for. He has used surplus panel parts in
>> the past,
>> but I don't know if that is still the case.
>> The STS stuff is much more hand made, and much lower volume. I
>> cannot stress
>> enough how little the raw cost of parts has to do with the final
>> price, as
>> opposed to other factors.
>> Moe (former manufacturing engineer)
>> On 8/14/08, Andre Majorel <> wrote:
>>> One possible explanation would be that labour costs are much
>>> higher at STS than they are at other manufacturers but then why
>>> would the SQP be so much cheaper than the CV matrix mixer ?

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