Re: [AH] Thinking of trading my Korg Polysix for MKS 70 with PG800. Am I

From cheater00 .
Sent Wed, May 1st 2013, 21:40

Hi Alex,
like Dave already said, the Polysix cannot be used without a noise
gate, or just you sitting at your desk and riding the fader. When it's
playing, the Polysix really takes offense at any other synths. You
can't use it with other harmonies playing in the mix; it almost always
needs to be the only synth playing, other than a simple bass line, and
unpitched drums. If you want a BD then it needs to be at the same
pitch as the bass line, and you most likely need to put the P6 through
a high-pass filter (use your EQ's low-reject). So what you want to do
is to create holes in your melody when there's nothing playing (no
reverb tails either), absolutely mute everything, then unmute the P6
and give it its time. Then mute that and unmute the rest of the track.
That's taking it to an extreme but works well. Put a track compressor
(maybe 10ms attack and 100ms release, 1:4) before the muting for a
less visible sound or after the muting (with shorter release) for a
punchier sound.

Don't go for the DX200.. they're somewhat difficult to find and fairly
pricey and don't exactly have that raw DX sound. Buy a DX-11 or DX-21,
those are real easy to find. And if you're paying $100 like David
mentioned, then you're seriously overpaying.

If you're looking for something big and poly I suggest one of the old
Yamaha organs, play it first.. They've got amazing sound, very analog,
very organic, and keep in tune because they're additive. Question is
if you have the space - they can be had for nothing, people pay to
have them removed. Play one and fall in love. Bear in mind that a lot
of the models are very very basic, but they grow on you once you see
how well they sit in a very polyphonic mix. That's a super-secret tip
from me to you though.

Also, a nitpick: the MKS 70 isn't fully analogue. It uses DCOs, and
that's fairly audible and a fairly big difference once you get deeper
into the synthesis. But it's also a reason why it's so well-behaved.

Cheers,
D.

On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 8:37 PM, Alex Timchak <atimchak@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi D - thank you for your very in-depth and thoughtful reply.  I certainly
> agree that I have enough "dirt."  The D50 does clean pretty well, and down
> the road I am considering a JD800 (if I have space) for more glassy digital
> bliss.  I certainly understand your point about VSTs - I have several and
> the one I have liked the best is Predator but there is just something about
> the immediacy of hands on control that evolved out of using my other gear
> that has pushed me in that direction more recently.  You are absolutely
> right about the noisiness of the polysix - fatigue is the perfect word to
> describe my reaction to the sound.  My main reason to move on from it is
> that it takes ages for me to find a patch that sits well in a mix.  Some
> people must love the brassy analogueness of it but I find it takes so much
> work to get a usable sound, by the time I get there, the inspiration to then
> record a part has faded about 50% of the time.  I recognize it could be user
> error but I've spent many hours on it and yes, less so EQing and compressing
> it, but shouldn't I be able to get 80% of the way there without a bunch of
> processing?  That kills the fun for me.
>
> Again, part of me wonders if I should save up more and get a Prophet 08
> module to cover the upper frequency range (with a computer editor/librarian
> too!), but to have hands on control of 24 DCOs for a little less money seems
> like a great idea.  I like your idea about a DX style synth, and have had my
> eyes on a DX200 for a while.  If only a good Mac editor was around for it
> (and maybe there is, but I didn't find one after searching for an hour a few
> weeks ago.)
>
> Maybe I'm crazy for thinking I *need* to have just one an analogue poly in
> my kit.  But if I didn't think that, then I shouldn't subscribe to the list,
> right? :)
>
> Thanks again for all your insights teams.  AH is just great.  I feel more at
> home here every day.
>
> Cheers,
> Alex
>
>
> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 11:31 AM, cheater00 . <cheater00@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 3:45 PM, Alex Timchak <atimchak@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Hi D - you're right, I should have mentioned that.  I have a Korg
>> > DW8000,
>> > Roland SH201, Roland D50, Future Retro Revolution, and a Moog Rogue in
>> > the
>> > shop.  Plus the Polysix of course.  I'm looking to pick up the new Super
>> > Bass Station and maybe a new MS20 mini for bass duties and unload the
>> > Rogue.
>> > I was thinking about getting a Mopho but seeing the new Bass Station has
>> > made me rethink that idea.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Alex
>>
>> Hi Alex,
>> it really sounds like you have a lot in the "dirt" department;
>> personally I find the Polysix is only useful for very simple chords or
>> as a unison monosynth, not very useful for complex polyphonic
>> passages. An MKS 70 will be able to do this. It's a very clean synth,
>> and you have nothing that does that. On the other hand, "clean" can be
>> easily had from VST plugins, so keep that in mind. The fact that the
>> 70 has DCOs helps with this comparison. The filters are very clean and
>> controlled, again something easily had from VSTs, although there's a
>> slight difference and you can't *quite* get the same sound - still,
>> you should be kept plenty busy. So if you're a guy who can work with
>> VSTs, try going for that instead of an MKS 70.
>>
>> The Polysix has problems with polyphony: tuning is very unstable and
>> changes from voice to voice which means you can only use more voices
>> as "more stuff happening" rather than "precisely measured harmonic
>> relations to evoke a specific emotion". The fact that it's super-noisy
>> means that you won't be able to use it without a gate, and using it
>> for longer passages is pretty much out of the question, unless it's
>> fairly quiet and drowned out by stuff that creates even more noise.
>> But in any case prolonged passages with this synth lead to fatigue.
>> The MKS 70 doesn't have that, but neither do well made VSTs (many of
>> which can be had for free)
>>
>> In addition, the ease of use of the MKS70 is easily beat by the
>> immediacy of a VST GUI... so pick your poison. I'd think twice. If you
>> want something clean and good that can't be had with VST, go for an
>> MKS 80 Rev 5. The Rev 3 and Rev 4 are very meaty and somewhat dirty.
>> If you absolutely want hardware, also consider getting a Nord Lead 3.
>> Don't get a Virus C or any of the earlier ones though.
>>
>> IMO the Polysix is very limited and it just gets boring quickly; the
>> MKS 70 seems less so, but I haven't owned one long enough to really be
>> able to tell.
>> Maybe you'd find it more fun to get a DX-11 or another DX - they're
>> great for punchy, bright, clean passages. Again, this sound can be had
>> in VST format, but at the prices these are going for, you might as
>> well buy one and skip one or two steak dinners.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> D.
>>
>>
>> > On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 1:36 AM, cheater00 . <cheater00@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Alex,
>> >> it would help a lot if you mentioned what other gear you had? I'm
>> >> wondering if this would be the one single synth you had at all.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> D.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 11:09 PM, Alex Timchak <atimchak@gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Thanks everyone for your thoughtful replies.  Right now I'm up
>> >> > against
>> >> > the
>> >> > age old question - just because I'm not gelling with a classic piece
>> >> > of
>> >> > gear
>> >> > now at this moment, should I hold it or get rid of it, only to find
>> >> > that
>> >> > I
>> >> > really loved it after all.  I'm leaning toward the "life is short"
>> >> > answer
>> >> > and trading.  Naturally if I had the funds to keep both the polysix
>> >> > and
>> >> > the
>> >> > MKS 70 I would, but you have all given me great feedback and a lot to
>> >> > think
>> >> > about.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thanks again to all for taking the time to help a brotha out.
>> >> >
>> >> > Cheers,
>> >> > Alex
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 4:04 PM, Nicholas Keller
>> >> > <niroke@tampabay.rr.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Hello again Alex,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Obviously keep both is the best answer, but if it is a decision
>> >> >> between
>> >> >> the two, consider that the MKS would allow more flexibility.
>> >> >> Granted
>> >> >> it
>> >> >> doesn't have a keyboard attached so it lacks that immediacy, and the
>> >> >> P6
>> >> >> does
>> >> >> sound great (my best friend has one), but instead you'd get a HPF,
>> >> >> MIDI,
>> >> >> more memory locations, stackable voices, better modulation options.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> just
>> >> >> heard a demo video of the Super JX on YouTube and was very
>> >> >> impressed.
>> >> >> I
>> >> >> don't know what the difference is from a JX-8P (which I owned a long
>> >> >> time
>> >> >> ago), but I don't remember the 8P sounding quite as big.  I could
>> >> >> tell
>> >> >> from
>> >> >> the video that it had DCOs, a glassy sound to some parts, an
>> >> >> accuracy.
>> >> >> But
>> >> >> that's not  necessarily a bad thing.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It's nice to have keys attached, but I think I'd go for the JX, if
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> price was reasonable....
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Nick
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sent from the future
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Apr 30, 2013, at 3:42 PM, Alex Timchak <atimchak@gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > I know I am just asking to be crucified here, but I have grown a
>> >> >> > little
>> >> >> > weary of my polysix sound and have found a Roland MKS 70 with
>> >> >> > PG800
>> >> >> > nearby
>> >> >> > that appears to be in great shape.   I've seen the videos of the
>> >> >> > MKS
>> >> >> > 70 and
>> >> >> > like what I hear, but I would greatly appreciate some more
>> >> >> > experienced
>> >> >> > user's opinions about this, please.  Obviously I am looking for a
>> >> >> > flexible
>> >> >> > analogue poly for pads and hopefully some bass sounds too.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > Cheers,
>> >> >> > Alex
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >
>> >
>
>