Re: [AH] Software Modulars?

From Bakis Sirros
Sent Sun, Dec 17th 2006, 00:08

hello Larry,
i have said this too many times...
so, here we go again:
the doepfer vco's sound very nice and the A110 low-end vco uses discrete
components and has a more raw-agressive sound than the cem3340 vco's.
it is all a matter of taste...
i have used and still use all the time doepfer vco's of both kinds, Plan B
Model 15's, plus the more expensive technosaurus selector vco's, ems vcs3
vco's(more expensive because of collectability, i think, and not because of
other factors...), Zeroscillator, , etc...
they all sound really good and analogue! none of these vco's can compare to
VA synths...
regarding the MOTM: again, the MOTM vco costs so much because of the
expensive mechanical parts(knobs, pots, panel,etc.) mostly, and not because
of the expensive electronic circuit. just look at the frac-racked MOTM
modules, their prices are in the same blacet and doepfer range, even cheaper
so, the cheap, or expensive modular, does not apply to ciomparisons between
doepfer, analogue systems(that is not a cheap modular for sure), MOTM, etc).
if you Realy want an expensive modular, try Serge, or Buchla (crazy
prices...), or the specific modules like the Cyndustries Zeroscillator.
bottom line: i have many different vco's from Doepfer, Analogue systems,
Blacet, Curetronic, Technosaurus, roland system100m, arp2600, Oberheim
SEM's, ems vcs3, system100, korg MS50, Zeroscillator, Plan B model 15's,
etc... they all have a special sound and they really do sound nice and
analogue. some sound warmer, some sound more aggresive, some sound fatter,
creamer, etc
but, they all sound better than the "softer" sounds of all my VA's.
still the VA synths are nice for certain kinds of sounds, like atmo's, pads,
hope this helps a bit...
best regards,       :-)

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[doepfer_a100] group owner
Athens - Greece

----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry David" <>
To: "Adam Somers" <>
Cc: <>
Sent: Sunday, December 17, 2006 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: [AH] Software Modulars?

> Hahaha.  Actually I was leaning very much toward a software modular
> until a couple members of the AH community elucidated this aliasing
> issue.  I had figured that a large, high quality analog modular, like
> the MOTM I've theoretically been building for 5 years, would be ideal
> (in terms of sound in particular).  Then there is a spectrum of other
> analog modulars, bottoming out with PAiA or Doepfer or some other
> "budget" line.  And somewhere in that spectrum things like Reaktor or
> Arturia stuff would fall (again in terms of sound quality in
> particular).  Now however, I am thinking that all the VA stuff may be
> "below" even the PAiA/Doepfer/AS etc. level.  I'm not a ckt designer
> by trade, but my degrees are in EE and from what little I've seen of
> the "low end" modular VCO designs, I figured they wouldn't sound very
> good (warm, phat, rich, etc.).  I mean if the high end Doepfer VCO
> uses a 3340, what does the low end one use, a 555 timer?  Actually
> I'd be interested in how people think, say, Doepfer systems compare
> in sound to the best VA modulars.  I had always figured that I
> wouldn't be satisfied with the sound of a low end analog modular VCO;
> which is why I decided to start an MOTM.  Maybe there's nothing else
> to be done, and an MOTM (or other "quality design before low price"
> philosophy synth) is the only way to go.  Too bad Analog Haven
> doesn't have a franchise in Detroit!  (To actually play/hear a synth
> before buying it; what a concept, lol).
> FWIW, I would use a modular for beautiful, complex, rich textures and
> musically playable sounds (i.e. as lead or multitracked polyphonic
> instruments) - more in the vein of classical electronic than modern
> "electronica" or dance that seems to be dominated by noisy samples of
> noisy synths.  I listened to the demo sounds on the Reaktor website
> and it seemed like 90% of them had significant noise (i.e. white/pink/
> AM/RM intentional grunge) in them.  Is this the style now?  Anyway,
> that is not the sound I would make.  Even a cheap, quick-and-dirty
> designed VCO can make decent noise (not mathematically decent
> necessarily, but just abrasive and angry sounding); but it seems it
> would take a more robust, "high fidelity" design to make beautiful
> sounds.  Anyone know of any records of tonal, melodic synth music
> made with a "cheaper" modular?  The Tomita of the Doepfer or something?
> ld
> On Dec 16, 2006, at 2:24 PM, Adam Somers wrote:
> > I can't *believe* AH is standing idly by while this guy rationalizes a
> > softsynth over analog modular.  Where's your community when you need
> > it?
> >
> > Help Larry!
> >
> > -Adam
> >
> > On 12/16/06, James J. Clark <> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, 15 Dec 2006, Larry David wrote:
> >>
> >> >Nobody answered this before, so I'll ask again - does anybody ever
> >> >hear any aliasing in Reaktor (or any other digital modular)?
> >>
> >> Yes, you can easily hear aliasing in Reaktor ensembles - but!
> >> there are
> >> good Reaktor ensembles and not so good ones. An ensemble that uses
> >> anti-aliased oscillators and doesn't have too much nonlinear
> >> processing
> >> (i.e. no distortion modules etc), and runs at a high sampling rate
> >> will
> >> sound pretty good.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> >Ah, right.  So it would seem that any VA synth - modular or not -
> >> >would have to compromise between authenticity/complexity and
> >> aliasing
> >> >artifacts.  Do you think this is why so many people think VA synths
> >> >sound either "harsh" (from the aliasing) or "dull" (from the
> >> >bandlimiting or other techniques to limit aliasing)?
> >>
> >> Yes, I think you nailed it right on the head...
> >>
> >> Jim
> >>
> >>