Re: [AH] wanted: acid machine

From Nicholas Keller
Sent Thu, Jan 8th 2015, 23:41

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I see no one has mentioned the Machinedrum as a source of solid midi timing.=
 I thought that was one of its selling points.  I have one and often use it a=
s a master clock driving two MAQs and the Rolands via midi->DIN, but I've ne=
ver done a comparative test

Nick


> On Jan 8, 2015, at 4:39 PM, David Vicu=C3=B1a <davidvicuna@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>=20
> I am not an expert in any way, but from what i know, one of the things tha=
t can affect midi timing is the jitter... when you have jitter problems in a=
 midi signal, the devices can loss their original "analog swing"... there ar=
e some analog devices that definitely have their own micro pulsating rhythm t=
hat makes you dance - 606, 808, 909, 303, 101, the mpc with that 60% set... t=
he XBase09 has also a groove which is pleasant to me.
>=20
> But if you provide those "groovy" devices a jitter-free midi signal, they k=
eep their original groove even when it is midi. If it is not jitter free, li=
ke a bad USB midi signal from Ableton.
>=20
> Another thing is that midi messages need to be "read" by software, and tha=
t can delay the response, specially when you have several devices chained...=
 affecting the global groove.
>=20
> Last, CV/gate attacks tends to be sharper in many synths; there are also m=
idi only synths that make for great attacks like Nords though.=20
>=20
> All those characteristics added make it easier to get sharp grooves if you=
 use only CVgate/dinsync connections, but you can also achieve great results=
 with a dependable midi clock source like a syncgen, a mpc or a hw sequencer=
, and avoiding midi daisy chains.=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> 2015-01-08 21:24 GMT+01:00 David Bulog <d2ba@xtra.co.nz>:
>> One thing to my ears is the TT-303  as a midi slave its not quite there (=
latest OS never solved it)
>> It seems a bit off compare to other midi sequencers as a slave =E2=80=94a=
nyone else think this about theres?
>>=20
>> On 9/01/2015, at 8:46 am, Nicholas Keller <niroke@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:=

>>=20
>> > I thought you were saying that the original machines had a unique slopp=
iness to their clocks which is often not replicated successfully in clones, a=
nd that upgrading to a QS CPU would eliminate this slop and that the slop is=
 actually preferable.  I can testify that the 707 I used to have was terribl=
e as a master clock.  Now I have a TB and a 606, sometimes run by themselves=
 and sometimes synced to a midi master with either a Doepfer MSY-2 or MCV24 (=
and soon, a TR-9090).
>> >
>> > And I love a good curry.  I got spoiled living in the UK for a few year=
s, now I'm back in FL and it's hard to find a dish that satisfies me.
>> >
>> >
>> > Nick
>> >
>> >
>> >> On Jan 8, 2015, at 2:22 PM, Kenny Balys <kenny@beatkamp.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> As soon as you are running things via midi, all bets are off for timin=
g.
>> >>
>> >> The best Midi you will ever get will be from an MPC or something simil=
ar but its nowhere near analogue.
>> >>
>> >> Timing in the analogue domain is where everything can be rigidly synch=
ronous. Triggers, pulses, clocks all together work well because they are jus=
t a precession or cascade of events happening at the slew rate of the compon=
ent parts. ie) Nanoseconds
>> >>
>> >> If you are not using the internal sequencer on the 303 I don't imagine=
 a difference as far as the timing goes. I don't have a quick silver'd machi=
ne so take that with a grain of salt.
>> >>
>> >> ps: saying nanoseconds always makes me want a stiff curry with some na=
nobread
>> >>
>> >>> On 08-01-2015 7:01 PM, Nicholas Keller wrote:
>> >>> This sequencer stiffness you mention... If you ran the TB from a
>> >>> MIDI->Sync converter, wouldn't you also lose some of the TB's
>> >>> fl-acid-ity?  I was thinking about getting the Quicksilver upgrade at=

>> >>> some point, so I wonder what difference it will make if I rarely use t=
he
>> >>> TB with its own internal clock.
>> >>>
>> >>> Nick
>> >>
>=20

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>I see no one has mentioned the Machine=
drum as a source of solid midi timing. I thought that was one of its selling=
 points. &nbsp;I have one and often use it as a master clock driving two MAQ=
s and the Rolands via midi-&gt;DIN, but I've never done a comparative test<b=
r><br>Nick</div><div><br></div><div><br>On Jan 8, 2015, at 4:39 PM, David Vi=
cu=C3=B1a &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:davidvicuna@gmail.com">davidvicuna@gmail.com=
</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
>I am not an expert in any way, but from what i know, one of the things that=
 can affect midi timing is the jitter... when you have jitter problems in a m=
idi signal, the devices can loss their original "analog swing"... there are s=
ome analog devices that definitely have their own micro pulsating rhythm tha=
t makes you dance - 606, 808, 909, 303, 101, the mpc with that 60% set... th=
e XBase09 has also a groove which is pleasant to me.<br><br>But if you provi=
de those "groovy" devices a jitter-free midi signal, they keep their origina=
l groove even when it is midi. If it is not jitter free, like a bad USB midi=
 signal from Ableton.<div><br></div><div>Another thing is that midi messages=
 need to be "read" by software, and that can delay the response, specially w=
hen you have several devices chained... affecting the global groove.<br><div=
><br></div><div>Last, CV/gate attacks tends to be sharper in many synths; th=
ere are also midi only synths that make for great attacks like Nords though.=
&nbsp;<br><br>All those characteristics added make it easier to get sharp gr=
ooves if you use only CVgate/dinsync connections, but you can also achieve g=
reat results with a dependable midi clock source like a syncgen, a mpc or a h=
w sequencer, and avoiding midi daisy chains.&nbsp;</div><div><br></div><div>=
<div><div><div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div><=
/div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2015-01-08 21=
:24 GMT+01:00 David Bulog <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:d2ba@xtra.=
co.nz" target=3D"_blank">d2ba@xtra.co.nz</a>&gt;</span>:<br><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">One thing to my ears is the TT-303&nbsp; as a midi slave its n=
ot quite there (latest OS never solved it)<br>
It seems a bit off compare to other midi sequencers as a slave =E2=80=94anyo=
ne else think this about theres?<br>
<div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
On 9/01/2015, at 8:46 am, Nicholas Keller &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:niroke@tampa=
bay.rr.com">niroke@tampabay.rr.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
<br>
&gt; I thought you were saying that the original machines had a unique slopp=
iness to their clocks which is often not replicated successfully in clones, a=
nd that upgrading to a QS CPU would eliminate this slop and that the slop is=
 actually preferable.&nbsp; I can testify that the 707 I used to have was te=
rrible as a master clock.&nbsp; Now I have a TB and a 606, sometimes run by t=
hemselves and sometimes synced to a midi master with either a Doepfer MSY-2 o=
r MCV24 (and soon, a TR-9090).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; And I love a good curry.&nbsp; I got spoiled living in the UK for a few=
 years, now I'm back in FL and it's hard to find a dish that satisfies me.<b=
r>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Nick<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; On Jan 8, 2015, at 2:22 PM, Kenny Balys &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kenny=
@beatkamp.com">kenny@beatkamp.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; As soon as you are running things via midi, all bets are off for ti=
ming.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; The best Midi you will ever get will be from an MPC or something si=
milar but its nowhere near analogue.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Timing in the analogue domain is where everything can be rigidly sy=
nchronous. Triggers, pulses, clocks all together work well because they are j=
ust a precession or cascade of events happening at the slew rate of the comp=
onent parts. ie) Nanoseconds<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; If you are not using the internal sequencer on the 303 I don't imag=
ine a difference as far as the timing goes. I don't have a quick silver'd ma=
chine so take that with a grain of salt.<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; ps: saying nanoseconds always makes me want a stiff curry with some=
 nanobread<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; On 08-01-2015 7:01 PM, Nicholas Keller wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; This sequencer stiffness you mention... If you ran the TB from a=
<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; MIDI-&gt;Sync converter, wouldn't you also lose some of the TB'=
s<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; fl-acid-ity?&nbsp; I was thinking about getting the Quicksilver=
 upgrade at<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; some point, so I wonder what difference it will make if I rarel=
y use the<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; TB with its own internal clock.<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt;&gt; Nick<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
<br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</div></blockquote></body></html>=

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